Is the 450 class a more level playing field?

Larry
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Larry
Edited Date/Time 1/20/2012 5:51pm
Based on Jlaws performance?
Seems like you could make an argument that it may even be more cost effective just based on what motor costs are to get a 250F up to speed. And no matter what you spend you will not get a 250 f motor as fast as a PC one.
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lumpy790
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lumpy790 3/9/2009 8:00am
3/9/2009 8:00am Edited Date/Time 3/9/2009 8:01am
I was looking threw the AMA results page for Kenny Day....a little kid I knew years ago that I heard was racing Pro....and I noticed that everyone who signs up on the big bikes makes the night show where in the Lights 20-30 dont make the show.
jmar
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jmar 3/9/2009 8:25am
3/9/2009 8:25am
Larry wrote:
Based on Jlaws performance? Seems like you could make an argument that it may even be more cost effective just based on what motor costs are...
Based on Jlaws performance?
Seems like you could make an argument that it may even be more cost effective just based on what motor costs are to get a 250F up to speed. And no matter what you spend you will not get a 250 f motor as fast as a PC one.
Yes the 450 has leveled the playing field as far as motors go.

Now if we could just work on getting the OEMs to run product base suspension. It won't chage the out come but it will slow down the guys running the factory units.
MOTOCOACH
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MOTOCOACH 3/9/2009 9:03am
3/9/2009 9:03am
we can't stop the factory guys from using their suspension, because even if it is world's better than modified stockers (which it is), we need that for development of future bikes. in other words, today's stock suspension was yesterday's factory suspension (not exactly, but you get my drift). as far as motors go, the lites class is always going to be unfair, just like it was when we rode two strokes. the factories build their bikes to run for a few hours (so they can make them very powerful because they get rebuilt each race), and the privateers either build cheater motors or race unerpowered. i do agree, though, that the 450 does help level the field, because even though the factory 450's are ridiculously fast, they are not that different in peak horsepower numbers. the difference comes mostly in crispness of motor (they are rebuilt constantly, too), and having the power delivered the way each rider wants/likes it.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 3/9/2009 10:23am
3/9/2009 10:23am
PC engine costs 50K,easy,to build

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bogdan912
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bogdan912 3/9/2009 10:26am
3/9/2009 10:26am
Lumpy... It is much harder to get your 450 SX license than it is your lites license. So most of the guys who are making up those 20-30 riders your talking about aren't allowed to ride 450...
lumpy790
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lumpy790 3/9/2009 11:10am
3/9/2009 11:10am
bogdan912 wrote:
Lumpy... It is much harder to get your 450 SX license than it is your lites license. So most of the guys who are making up...
Lumpy... It is much harder to get your 450 SX license than it is your lites license. So most of the guys who are making up those 20-30 riders your talking about aren't allowed to ride 450...
OK I forgot about the new license requirements......I thought if you were say a Lights West rider you could ride the big bike in the East races.

It used to be common for privateers to ride both classes......Barry Carsten! Is this not allowed any more?
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bogdan912 3/9/2009 12:25pm
3/9/2009 12:25pm
That rule is there, but you must be eligible to ride 450 Supercross. A rider who earned their license through the pro-am mx series can only ride lites SX until they meet these requirements:

1. Qualify into the evening program in the Supercross class at least one time during the
2007 or 2008 Supercross season.
2. Qualify for at least one Supercross Lites Main Event during the 2007 or 2008
Supercross season. This does not include the Canadian rounds.
3. Earn at least 1 point in the 2007 or 2008 AMA Motocross Championship.
4. Earn 75 Arenacross class points in 2007-08 or 50 points in the 2008-09 AMA
Arenacross Series.
5. Qualify for at least one Supercross class Main Event during the 2004, 2005 or 2006
seasons.
6. Qualify for at least 3 Supercross Lites Main Events in one season during the 2005 or
2006 seasons.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 3/9/2009 1:06pm
3/9/2009 1:06pm
bogdan912 wrote:
That rule is there, but you must be eligible to ride 450 Supercross. A rider who earned their license through the pro-am mx series can only...
That rule is there, but you must be eligible to ride 450 Supercross. A rider who earned their license through the pro-am mx series can only ride lites SX until they meet these requirements:

1. Qualify into the evening program in the Supercross class at least one time during the
2007 or 2008 Supercross season.
2. Qualify for at least one Supercross Lites Main Event during the 2007 or 2008
Supercross season. This does not include the Canadian rounds.
3. Earn at least 1 point in the 2007 or 2008 AMA Motocross Championship.
4. Earn 75 Arenacross class points in 2007-08 or 50 points in the 2008-09 AMA
Arenacross Series.
5. Qualify for at least one Supercross class Main Event during the 2004, 2005 or 2006
seasons.
6. Qualify for at least 3 Supercross Lites Main Events in one season during the 2005 or
2006 seasons.
you gotta be fuckin' kidding me
bogdan912
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bogdan912 3/9/2009 1:30pm
3/9/2009 1:30pm Edited Date/Time 3/9/2009 1:32pm
You cannot ride both classes anymore either.. Maybe they'll revise the rules with the lack of turnout for the big boy class. The new rule that will move small bore riders up should make the 450 class better, but the small bore class I think will show a small turnout. Unless you have big bucks, it's very hard to get your pro card now..
Larry
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Larry 3/9/2009 1:39pm
3/9/2009 1:39pm
So those rules unlevel the 450 class unless the guy has lots of cash to spend on 250f motors.
what a cluster.
rocrac
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rocrac 3/9/2009 1:50pm
3/9/2009 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 3/9/2009 1:51pm
Larry wrote:
So those rules unlevel the 450 class unless the guy has lots of cash to spend on 250f motors.
what a cluster.
X2. The timed practices at Daytona for the SX class was silly in terms of rider turnout and dropoff in talent.
bogdan912
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bogdan912 3/9/2009 7:49pm
3/9/2009 7:49pm
Not just Daytona.. Look at Indy and Atlanta. The classes are reversed right now, the deepest talent is in the 250f class. I'm not sure who it was at indy but they were something like 4seconds slower than the next fastest guy who was also way off pace.. and he raced the night show simply because there weren't 40+ riders.
jmar
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jmar 3/9/2009 8:14pm
3/9/2009 8:14pm
MOTOCOACH wrote:
we can't stop the factory guys from using their suspension, because even if it is world's better than modified stockers (which it is), we need that...
we can't stop the factory guys from using their suspension, because even if it is world's better than modified stockers (which it is), we need that for development of future bikes. in other words, today's stock suspension was yesterday's factory suspension (not exactly, but you get my drift). as far as motors go, the lites class is always going to be unfair, just like it was when we rode two strokes. the factories build their bikes to run for a few hours (so they can make them very powerful because they get rebuilt each race), and the privateers either build cheater motors or race unerpowered. i do agree, though, that the 450 does help level the field, because even though the factory 450's are ridiculously fast, they are not that different in peak horsepower numbers. the difference comes mostly in crispness of motor (they are rebuilt constantly, too), and having the power delivered the way each rider wants/likes it.
I disagree,

If the OEMs race teams had to run production base suspension components the improvements would get to the show room floors much faster.
MxDaD324
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MxDaD324 3/9/2009 8:54pm
3/9/2009 8:54pm
lumpy790 wrote:
I was looking threw the AMA results page for Kenny Day....a little kid I knew years ago that I heard was racing Pro....and I noticed that...
I was looking threw the AMA results page for Kenny Day....a little kid I knew years ago that I heard was racing Pro....and I noticed that everyone who signs up on the big bikes makes the night show where in the Lights 20-30 dont make the show.
Yea Kenny lives close to me pretty cool kid and fast as hell. He was in Daytona for what i believe was his first stab at SX. Unfortunately he didnt make the night show but im sure he will hit another round or two. He has a brother named Aaron thats fast as shit, i would say Aaron is in his early 30s maybe. He shows up at Budds Creek once in a while and the guy still flat out ripps.
lumpy790
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lumpy790 3/9/2009 10:50pm
3/9/2009 10:50pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:52pm
Aaron & his brother Chris were both really fast. I prepped Aarons Hondas when I lived in Mechanicsville.......Kenney was probably about 11at the time.

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