Fun day on the ice

catatonic
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catatonic 2/7/2012 3:31pm
2/7/2012 3:31pm
TerryK wrote:
The MF44 tires we use are not spiked, but have screw in studs. They are tough and a rear will last a season and a half...
The MF44 tires we use are not spiked, but have screw in studs. They are tough and a rear will last a season and a half for a fast guy and much longer for the intermediate riders.

And no, no one has run a speedway bike here. Our tracks a too long for a speedway bike.
catatonic wrote:
I got 3 years out of my last one.....it finally came apart last weekend. luckily I have a new one ready to go.
TerryK wrote:
Thats cool. 125s are a lot easier on tires than the 500s and 450s we run. lol
No doubt about that.....I tore one up pretty quick the 2 years I ran it on my 525.
I like the 125 now because its fun to toy with some of the bigger bikes in the corners.
We only do it for fun but its a great way to get through winter.
Swede
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Swede 2/8/2012 2:48am
2/8/2012 2:48am
I've mentioned it a couple of times before, how we do it "over here" (Sweden and Finland). We either use the "Enduro"-studded tyres for winter MX, Enduro and the slower ice-racing class (which I use on ice and are very fun, since the grip is more like on dirt/gravel):


And reartire:


But the fast guys use what we call "Finn"-studds. Thin, almost neddle looking studds that won't probably give the same grip as the screws you use in Canada and Norhern US, but they still go crasy fast (almost like riding on asphalt). Leathersuits being mandatory, since we only use stock fenders.

"Finn"-studded front tire:


Rear tire:


And here's a couple of - not so great looking - photos (taken on new years eve), of my friend Håkan's lowered KTM 540 (with some goodies in both the engine, brakes, chassie and visuals).



Halfast816 2/8/2012 6:54am
2/8/2012 6:54am
I miss the old trellborgs. I still have a pair in the garage. Unfortunately as Terry says ice riding is keeping up with the Joneses'. Once someboby has the new stuff it just isn't fun watching someone blow by you hooked up and dragging a knee. The old days were riding on the lakes with little kids like JR Schnabel and Benny Carlson. Now this old man has to bust @ss just to stay on the same lap as them in a 5 minute moto so any advantage is welcomed. I hate to say it but ice riding is more like the 2 vs 4 stroke debate buy the Canadian screws and make it simple or ride the old gold screws and dance on the edge of control and be rewarded with a spirited ride albeit in last place. If I could talk all my friends into riding on trellborgs or whomever makes them now I'd grin from ear to ear. No more rolling out carpet and tire wraps, just ride the bike to the lake and tear it up.........I guess in the scheme of things being competitive is more fun than having fun............huh????? Still trying to figure out how to tell the boss I NEED 600 bucks for new ice tires...The warm weather has made laying out the courses much easier we just go around the duck holes. The braver you are the shorter the course.
TerryK
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TerryK 2/8/2012 7:26am
2/8/2012 7:26am
Halfast816 wrote:
I miss the old trellborgs. I still have a pair in the garage. Unfortunately as Terry says ice riding is keeping up with the Joneses'. Once...
I miss the old trellborgs. I still have a pair in the garage. Unfortunately as Terry says ice riding is keeping up with the Joneses'. Once someboby has the new stuff it just isn't fun watching someone blow by you hooked up and dragging a knee. The old days were riding on the lakes with little kids like JR Schnabel and Benny Carlson. Now this old man has to bust @ss just to stay on the same lap as them in a 5 minute moto so any advantage is welcomed. I hate to say it but ice riding is more like the 2 vs 4 stroke debate buy the Canadian screws and make it simple or ride the old gold screws and dance on the edge of control and be rewarded with a spirited ride albeit in last place. If I could talk all my friends into riding on trellborgs or whomever makes them now I'd grin from ear to ear. No more rolling out carpet and tire wraps, just ride the bike to the lake and tear it up.........I guess in the scheme of things being competitive is more fun than having fun............huh????? Still trying to figure out how to tell the boss I NEED 600 bucks for new ice tires...The warm weather has made laying out the courses much easier we just go around the duck holes. The braver you are the shorter the course.
While I agree that the old school way is fun, describing riding with the tires we use as "simple" doesn't come close to being accurate. Just like any form or racing, it comes with its own set of skills. It's not like just anyone can come out and instantly run at the front. When you are racing, no matter what it is, if you are going fast you are running on the edge of control, the edge of traction and at the limits of your own skill. If everyone is on equal equipment, then how is it simple?

The thing about this kind of racing, the speeds are so high that some guys just can't wrap their heads around it and don't enjoy it. Running into a corner at 90mph is not for everyone.

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Halfast816 2/8/2012 7:44am
2/8/2012 7:44am
Not to impune ice racing I was making the statement of old vs new tech is like 2 vs 4. If a top guy shows up with better equipment all the rest have to follow is all I'm saying. First three guys in your circle put one on Candian rest on AMA will it vault the guy that usually finishes 2 or 3 up front?? Much easier to build corner speed confidence on the newer stuff when you know the harder you throw it in the better it will stick. Old days step it out excell through the turn or push and slide on your back. Steering with the rear tire. Now everyone is looking to rail. Canadians also let you ride off the main line and track through the fluff much easier than the AMA stuff. Our endurance races don't ban the Canadians so it gets frustrating setting up a pass for a couple of turns only to have someone on the taller screws go around the outside in the snow cone shavings. Even at my advanced age I can appreciate high speed, even though I'm on one of those poky CR500's.
Halfast816 2/8/2012 7:56am
2/8/2012 7:56am
Maybe the MXer's have trouble because you only turn left.....just watched the video you guy's have some NASCAR blood in ya? EH
TerryK
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TerryK 2/8/2012 10:44am
2/8/2012 10:44am
Halfast816 wrote:
Not to impune ice racing I was making the statement of old vs new tech is like 2 vs 4. If a top guy shows up...
Not to impune ice racing I was making the statement of old vs new tech is like 2 vs 4. If a top guy shows up with better equipment all the rest have to follow is all I'm saying. First three guys in your circle put one on Candian rest on AMA will it vault the guy that usually finishes 2 or 3 up front?? Much easier to build corner speed confidence on the newer stuff when you know the harder you throw it in the better it will stick. Old days step it out excell through the turn or push and slide on your back. Steering with the rear tire. Now everyone is looking to rail. Canadians also let you ride off the main line and track through the fluff much easier than the AMA stuff. Our endurance races don't ban the Canadians so it gets frustrating setting up a pass for a couple of turns only to have someone on the taller screws go around the outside in the snow cone shavings. Even at my advanced age I can appreciate high speed, even though I'm on one of those poky CR500's.
Lol, you're preaching to the choir brother! I've been racing on the ice for 35 years and I've seen all the methods and advancements right from sheet metal screws to the first commercially available screws and everything in between. We used to use a screw that had and over sized washer to keep it from deflecting under load. We used to sharpen the washers so they we like little razor discs and the screws would be put in on a 45 degree angle so the washer was in contact with the ice, not the screw head. Worked well until something better came along.

Of course the MF screws are an advantage, but if everyone is using them, then they are not. I would never expect someone with the AMA screws to be placed in the same class as others that are using MF44s which is why we group the guys with the MFs in the Pro class. You can run AMA screws in Pro, but obviously you'll be at a huge disadvantage. The unfortunate thing is, the art of building a good tire is almost lost now. I'm trying to keep it alive but no one seems to want to be grouped in the lower classes.
TerryK
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TerryK 2/8/2012 10:47am
2/8/2012 10:47am
Halfast816 wrote:
Maybe the MXer's have trouble because you only turn left.....just watched the video you guy's have some NASCAR blood in ya? EH
Maybe the MXer's have trouble because you only turn left.....just watched the video you guy's have some NASCAR blood in ya? EH
No, most of them shit their pants when they get up close and personal with 5 other bikes, laid over in a corner at 70mph lol.
TerryK
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TerryK 2/8/2012 10:49am
2/8/2012 10:49am Edited Date/Time 2/8/2012 10:59am
Swede wrote:
I've mentioned it a couple of times before, how we do it "over here" (Sweden and Finland). We either use the "Enduro"-studded tyres for winter MX...
I've mentioned it a couple of times before, how we do it "over here" (Sweden and Finland). We either use the "Enduro"-studded tyres for winter MX, Enduro and the slower ice-racing class (which I use on ice and are very fun, since the grip is more like on dirt/gravel):


And reartire:


But the fast guys use what we call "Finn"-studds. Thin, almost neddle looking studds that won't probably give the same grip as the screws you use in Canada and Norhern US, but they still go crasy fast (almost like riding on asphalt). Leathersuits being mandatory, since we only use stock fenders.

"Finn"-studded front tire:


Rear tire:


And here's a couple of - not so great looking - photos (taken on new years eve), of my friend Håkan's lowered KTM 540 (with some goodies in both the engine, brakes, chassie and visuals).



How well do the enduro tires last when used on bare ice? What brand are they?
Swede
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Swede 2/9/2012 1:53am
2/9/2012 1:53am
TerryK wrote:
How well do the enduro tires last when used on bare ice? What brand are they?
Terry,

On ice, the enduro-studds last forever. On a MX track with little ice and snow, not that long...

Over here, most tirebrands carry their version, alot of times glued and studded by small, Swedish 1-2 man companys. A friend of mine used to do this for Michelin, but stopped becuase he got ill of the glue (this guy recently freshend up my YZ250 suspension, since he used to work at Öhlins for a long time, but now has his own business).

It's the same with studded rally tires (or at least used to be), Michelin for example, was (still is?) done by a guy further up north in Sweden.

And you'll find that most brands has their "line" of enduro-studded tires, from Mitas, Trelleborg and Michelin to Pirelli, Metzler and Cheng Shin. Winter Enduro is very big over here, but most regions also has their own MX Winter Series.

The (mx-style) ice racing is very small and local in Sweden. I'm not 100% sure, but there are couple of Swedish guys that makes the "Finn"-studded tires (as in Finish studded) and some buys 'em directly from Finland. I've never heard of "fabrik" made versions.

And as mentioned before, we don't do go around in circles, instead the tracks looks more like roadracing.

Link to a local Uppsala company and the brands they carry: Da Silva Racing

And since I only ride for fun, I prefer the slower speeds of the Enduro tires (just trying to ride with both feet on the pegs, sliding around and finding traction).

Halfast816 2/9/2012 6:36am
2/9/2012 6:36am
I here ya I really love riding by myself with the trellborg(enduro style studs), but as soon as the others show with better tires I have to switch over to the AMA studs to avoid being run down by some of the less experienced guys. Whom now are switching to the Canadian screws the arms race continues to escalate. STOP innovating already my wallet can't take it anymore!!!!! Oh and my Trellborgs have been on the 500 since the twentieth century and haven't lost a pick, I've sent many more AMA tires to the junk heap. I still have all my ice tire building skills , it's the patience I have lost ...........
Halfast816 2/9/2012 6:40am
2/9/2012 6:40am
I have to get some pics up of our liquid 'cooled' handlebars for keeping the mits nice and toasty on the coldest days. Three years of testing and no failures. Unlike the sets of hot grips and battery packs we used to go through. Cheers I'm out to spin some solitary sideways laps on the lake.
TerryK
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TerryK 2/13/2012 9:57pm
2/13/2012 9:57pm
Halfast816 wrote:
I have to get some pics up of our liquid 'cooled' handlebars for keeping the mits nice and toasty on the coldest days. Three years of...
I have to get some pics up of our liquid 'cooled' handlebars for keeping the mits nice and toasty on the coldest days. Three years of testing and no failures. Unlike the sets of hot grips and battery packs we used to go through. Cheers I'm out to spin some solitary sideways laps on the lake.
Hot Grips are the ticket for me, but mine run of a lighting coil so no failures in about 5 years.

Here's another vid I made with a few different camera angles. Yes thats me screaming. I tend to do that when I scare the shit out of myself lol.

1
TerryK
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TerryK 2/21/2012 8:46pm
2/21/2012 8:46pm
Here's another vid with yet more camera angles. lol

2
Morten Fredriksen 1/26/2016 1:54pm
1/26/2016 1:54pm
TerryK wrote:
How well do the enduro tires last when used on bare ice? What brand are they?
Swede wrote:
Terry, On ice, the enduro-studds last forever. On a MX track with little ice and snow, not that long... Over here, most tirebrands carry their version...
Terry,

On ice, the enduro-studds last forever. On a MX track with little ice and snow, not that long...

Over here, most tirebrands carry their version, alot of times glued and studded by small, Swedish 1-2 man companys. A friend of mine used to do this for Michelin, but stopped becuase he got ill of the glue (this guy recently freshend up my YZ250 suspension, since he used to work at Öhlins for a long time, but now has his own business).

It's the same with studded rally tires (or at least used to be), Michelin for example, was (still is?) done by a guy further up north in Sweden.

And you'll find that most brands has their "line" of enduro-studded tires, from Mitas, Trelleborg and Michelin to Pirelli, Metzler and Cheng Shin. Winter Enduro is very big over here, but most regions also has their own MX Winter Series.

The (mx-style) ice racing is very small and local in Sweden. I'm not 100% sure, but there are couple of Swedish guys that makes the "Finn"-studded tires (as in Finish studded) and some buys 'em directly from Finland. I've never heard of "fabrik" made versions.

And as mentioned before, we don't do go around in circles, instead the tracks looks more like roadracing.

Link to a local Uppsala company and the brands they carry: Da Silva Racing

And since I only ride for fun, I prefer the slower speeds of the Enduro tires (just trying to ride with both feet on the pegs, sliding around and finding traction).

Hi swede.

Where can I get a finn-studded tire set up?
I live in Mo i Rana in Norway, and we are doing ice-racing...but I find my Trelleborg has a lack of traction in comparison to the finn-studded my friend came across....

I've searched the web but can find anything.

And which pressure are you running in a Trelleborg studded tire??

Best regards
Morten Fredriksen
profeshenal125 2/13/2023 9:56am
2/13/2023 9:56am
catatonic wrote:
I use a 125 on the ice.....big fun.

Yes they are. I haven’t rode on ice in 20 yrs. I got my owners manual out  for jetting tips. My studded tires I made hv good side walls - not cracked. I figure there good enough too run. My shoulder is still froze from a injection. I checked out the east side of the bay 2 mi n of where the fox river drains into the bay. It’s open water there. 2 mi out 8-12 in of ice its soft mush on top according to a fisherman. So that would b great for figure 8,s & turn tracks. Sunday pics1E97F76F-72AB-4CE4-8DC3-D3119D1ED869

 C4DC22BB-CC49-42FE-A674-7224FD6F1520.jpeg?VersionId=GpqVxLof

 

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profeshenal125 2/13/2023 10:18am
2/13/2023 10:18am

My ice tires are 20 yrs old. Any ice riders know if they would hold up ?  I used a box of cold cutters or whatever there called. No better way to get a feel of control  for a bike than ice riding. 

bigsal
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bigsal 2/18/2023 6:51am
2/18/2023 6:51am

20220203 093148

 

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Pit Row

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profeshenal125 2/18/2023 12:27pm
2/18/2023 12:27pm

What you riding there BigSal a 74 cr125 ? Freaken COOL.  Ps I Love your 95 cr125

Hoseclamp
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Hoseclamp 2/18/2023 12:52pm
2/18/2023 12:52pm

I put ice tires on 3 bikes this year for me and the boys and never even got to go once thanks to the mild winter weather. Now I get to try to take those razor laced tires back off and set them back up for dirt. Wishing I had spare wheels.

bigsal
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bigsal 2/18/2023 4:53pm
2/18/2023 4:53pm
profeshenal125 wrote:

What you riding there BigSal a 74 cr125 ? Freaken COOL.  Ps I Love your 95 cr125

 Thanks "profeshenal125" yeppers just Ice racing my tiddler vintage MX 125 elsinore in the 200cc studded class aprox 1988 or so at rainbow falls colorado, of course that was a pass for the lead and I BamBamed the dude. My main Ice race bike was a framed (Star racer) TT500 (methanol motor) Yamaha in the open expert class that a long departed buddy and M/C service dept. co-worker built for me to ride. 

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