Risk Vs Reward

RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics, GB
3/23/2015 1:24am
I think some of the tracks you have over there in the states need to be looked at. Some of the are so fast and the jumps are so big, it's only a matter of time before someone gets injured. Look at Utah for example. That track is wide open with massive jump after massive jump, there are very few places you can crash on that track and get away with it, and it's the same for some of the practice tracks. You've got jumps like the one Rookie White did, and 100+ft triple at Pala, impressive if done right, but potentially catastrophic if it goes wrong. Yes this sport is risky and dangerous, but I think at the minute with the way tracks are going, we're making it even more dangerous than it should be
Zracer
Posts
1479
Joined
2/17/2013
Location
Saint Clair, MI, USA
3/23/2015 1:34am
Not for the child thats racing dirtbikes, His chance of dying on the track is far greater than in a car.
Zracer
Posts
1479
Joined
2/17/2013
Location
Saint Clair, MI, USA
3/23/2015 1:34am
Look em up dumbass. Took me 3 minutes.
JB 19
Posts
4342
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH, USA
3/23/2015 3:26am
You sure like to argue. I'd be willing to bet that in real life you're the mouse in the corner who never has much to say.

I think it's obvious to anyone with a brain that motocross is much more dangerous than riding in a car.

We should take a simple poll of present or past racers on here and see how many of us have been badly injured (broken bones or worse) on a dirt bike and how many have been badly injured while riding in a car. I don't care what your statistics say, my brain provides the answer for me.

Btw....stats are only as good as the info they are based on.

The Shop

Drtbykr
Posts
2058
Joined
10/29/2006
Location
Fredericton, CA
3/23/2015 3:55am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2015 3:57am
I think it depends on how much you love the sport. I could play hockey quite well, but didn't LOVE it enough to put up with the pain.
Motorcycle's, I do.

A great day on a motorcycle is what life is all about.

People get married everyday, that is REALLY dangerous,lol. Thankfully my wife is sane.

The time it gets very grey is when it is kids...that is tough. Some have the need for speed, it has to be quenched. Probably the safest place is a track.
JohnnyD13
Posts
753
Joined
3/23/2014
Location
Loganville, GA, USA
3/23/2015 5:44am
I got this from brotocross. Times like these really suck. I don’t blog much anymore, and I usually try to keep this blog on the lighthearted side, but this is one of those times where I’m venting, and if you want to read it, cool. If not, cool, too. I, like a lot of people in the sport, am anxiously waiting any real report on Tyler Hoeft’s condition, although from the chatter that has been going around, even the good news is pretty terrible. I never met Tyler, but saw him at tracks in California here and there. Good rider, and the family seem like good people, the type that make the track a good place.

I just saw a photo of Tyler racing from Thursday (above), presumably in the moto where he crashed. Stuff like that is tough for me to look at. It’s so hard not to think, “Man, if he just didn’t line up for that moto…” It’s enough to make you not want to ride a dirtbike. But then, where does that mentality stop? At what point do you start thinking like that and look up and realize you haven’t left your house in four weeks because it’s the safest way to live? Motocross is dangerous, no matter what. I know that there is no way to ease the heartbreak and hardship the Hoeft family is experiencing right now, and I am not even going to try to. All I will say is, no matter what happens, I am sure that Tyler Hoeft was happy riding his dirtbike, much happier than kids who grew up with their parents putting floaties and helmets on them when they got into an inflatable pool. Every day in life should be a roll of the dice, to some degree, if you are truly living.

I’ve spoken to a lot of people in the last day who use the “It just isn’t worth it” argument, and get kind of frustrated because that makes no sense to me. What isn’t worth it? I am not saying that a kid’s life is worth risking for motocross; all I am saying is that there is so much out of our control, to argue that racing a dirtbike isn’t worth it is to say that life would be better spent sitting on the couch, waiting comfortably for death. Tyler Hoeft doing something that he loved, that he was passionate about, and was damn good at was definitely worth a hell of a lot to him. Tyler’s crash was on a standard jump, and was a horrible freak occurrence. To argue whether this is worth it or not is to say there is a credible chance that he could have seen some scenario where this was coming, which is idiotic. It would be foolish to think that anyone who has ever swung a leg over a bike could have seen that coming. Don’t say “motocross isn’t worth it”.

I see more and more people coming out of the woodwork saying that amateur motocross is too dangerous now, that the tracks are too gnarly and the bikes are too fast. I will say that I don’t think there is any reason that a kid should ride a 450. Honestly, if you weigh under 200 pounds and are not a professional, you do not need a 450, straight up. I’m not talking about Tyler Hoeft right now, because I think he was riding a 250. This is just an observation on the state of amateur motocross. More and more kids are coming up in the ranks with unbelievable speed, but regularly taking unbelievable crashes, too. Amateur motocross now has a “just twist it” mentality that I don’t think it ever had – parents and training facilities are more often encouraging speed over technique, which is not the way to do it. Proper technique will always translate into speed in the long run, but such is not always true vice-versa. And while I hate two-stroke nazis, I will say that it takes a lot more technique to ride a two-stroke 250 than a four-stroke 250. But proper technique allows riders to stay out of trouble more often on the track, and ultimately leads to fewer crashes. Some people might argue against my opinion there, and they are stupid. There will always be forces out of our control working on the track; minimizing their effect is the only thing we can do.

Again, that last paragraph was in no way directed toward Tyler Hoeft or family. From what I could tell, Tyler is a great rider with great technique, like his brother. My relentless condolences and support to them in this, the hardest time of their lives. Nothing would make me happier than to see him pull through this. Eazy out.
steveada
Posts
396
Joined
5/6/2011
Location
Evans, GA, USA
3/23/2015 5:45am
Risk vs reward. that is an equation that we try and balance every day. Sure there is a risk getting in a car, but there is a difference in risk between driving sanely and driving like an idiot. Where you fall on that spectrum is a matter of choice. When it comes to riding mx you know there is an inherent risk involved as well. The faster you go, the harder you push your comfort level, the higher the risks involved. No matter what size bike you allow, what jumps you allow etc, people will push the limit and get hurt. You could outlaw jumps and people pushing their limits will swap out in a rough section and hurt themselves. You could outlaw triples and somebody will catch a foot scrubbing a 30 ft tabletop and superman himself into oblivion. My point is that no matter what you do to try and mitigate risk, to be at the top, some riders will have to push the envelope until they are on the ragged edge in order to gain an advantage on someone else. That is why I think at the professional level, people have always gotten hurt, and always will get hurt. Where I think we could make a lot of progress is in the amateur ranks. I think people need to look at why they, and their kids, are in the sport. Sure, everybody wants to be a winner, but it shouldn't be at any cost. 99% of us are in it for the fun, the competition, the rush, the family experience etc., and have absolutely no chance of it being anything more than that. This isn't soccer or baseball where you can continually push kids with the idea that winning is everything without consequences. Maybe it is a sport where you teach your kids that winning is great, but it is not everything, and for the most part in this sport, it isn't worth it. Maybe it is a sport where you push your kids not to hit certain obstacles you think aren't worth the risk, rather than pushing them to go hit everything. Maybe it is a sport where you teach your kids that it is OK to be a C class hero, riding within your comfort level, improving your basic skills, being competitive, and having fun rather than moving up and either pushing until they get hurt, or riding around in the back of the pack until they get so bored or discouraged they lose interest. Treat it like the recreational pursuit that it is, not some ill conceived professional training camp starting at age 5.
hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN, USA
3/23/2015 6:08am
KennyT wrote:
Because with seat belts and air bags it is a very safe thing to do. Unless of course you are some ignorant hillbilly that throws the...
Because with seat belts and air bags it is a very safe thing to do. Unless of course you are some ignorant hillbilly that throws the kids in the bed of the pickup, if that's the case I would say no to throwing the kids in the back and riding around
Stereotype much?
PalerBlue
Posts
719
Joined
3/28/2014
Location
Essex, GB
3/23/2015 6:26am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2015 6:28am
Rick M. wrote:
And what is this risk vs reward. I raced because it was fun as hell, and my dad loved doing it to. We never looked down...
And what is this risk vs reward. I raced because it was fun as hell, and my dad loved doing it to. We never looked down the line, I was always looking forward to the next sunday, because I could ride. Risk vs Reward hahahah
Absolutely true! And the previous post too.
99.9% of boys racing will NEVER earn a cent. So calling it a "career" is a joke.

The "risk" should be moderated by not riding over your own limits. The "reward" should be the fun.
PEPE001
Posts
708
Joined
3/4/2015
Location
NRW, DE
3/23/2015 6:31am
This is so sick and drives me fucking crazy!
Any Child dying in an accident or at MX is one too much!

I am a father of 2 and my son starts riding MX he likes it no he loves it.

But I only let him ride on tracks without doubles and triples!
He likes to jump any jump.
I
f you don't like it or not there is something in between.
There is not such thing safety in whatever you do.

But we can minimize the risk!
And if I see those stupid doubles and triples with huge distances and steep edges I don't let him ride it.
Even more I never show up on that track again!

This is so absurd acting like a MX Professional as an amateur not being remotely capable handling the entire potential of a bike. It is not the bike its us who are dangerous!

Switch on your brain during riding,
I see this so often on practice tracks that I am about having a physical discussion with those stupid Assholes! Sorry for the hard words.

What I mean:
A scenario from last week. I was riding on a Track and a guy was in front of me pinning it on straights like Dungey and in corners like a snail! So I passed him in the corner and he pulled the throttle at the end of the corner like an idiot and cutting my line. Just to prevent that I pass him. If he would not had left the track immediately I would have send him in the woods in the next corner or hitting his stupid face.

Saw him later on the parking lot and this asshole told me hey that's MX that's racing.
Those Assholes make tracks dangerous because they ask for more spectacular jumps.

When we ride during practice that should not be!
If it is a race it could be but on a Sunday afternoon no way!
And by the way that asshole was not even wearing gloves!



hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
3/23/2015 6:35am
KennyT wrote:
Because with seat belts and air bags it is a very safe thing to do. Unless of course you are some ignorant hillbilly that throws the...
Because with seat belts and air bags it is a very safe thing to do. Unless of course you are some ignorant hillbilly that throws the kids in the bed of the pickup, if that's the case I would say no to throwing the kids in the back and riding around
hillbilly wrote:
Stereotype much?
hahaha, that was funny
KennyT
Posts
4399
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA, USA
Fantasy
3/23/2015 8:11am
KennyT wrote:
Because with seat belts and air bags it is a very safe thing to do. Unless of course you are some ignorant hillbilly that throws the...
Because with seat belts and air bags it is a very safe thing to do. Unless of course you are some ignorant hillbilly that throws the kids in the bed of the pickup, if that's the case I would say no to throwing the kids in the back and riding around
hillbilly wrote:
Stereotype much?
Haha hillbilly, you got me.

But to answer your question yes I do, all the time. Not to say you are a ignorant person who tosses the kids in the back of the truck on your way to pick up the moonshine, but there is a good chance you are.

Just kidding! Keyboard had me worked up yesterday
hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN, USA
3/23/2015 9:10am
KennyT wrote:
Because with seat belts and air bags it is a very safe thing to do. Unless of course you are some ignorant hillbilly that throws the...
Because with seat belts and air bags it is a very safe thing to do. Unless of course you are some ignorant hillbilly that throws the kids in the bed of the pickup, if that's the case I would say no to throwing the kids in the back and riding around
hillbilly wrote:
Stereotype much?
KennyT wrote:
Haha hillbilly, you got me. But to answer your question yes I do, all the time. Not to say you are a ignorant person who tosses...
Haha hillbilly, you got me.

But to answer your question yes I do, all the time. Not to say you are a ignorant person who tosses the kids in the back of the truck on your way to pick up the moonshine, but there is a good chance you are.

Just kidding! Keyboard had me worked up yesterday
They ride up front when I drink,safer when the law gets after us and I need to shot my firearm out the winder.
KennyT
Posts
4399
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA, USA
Fantasy
3/23/2015 9:56am
hillbilly wrote:
Stereotype much?
KennyT wrote:
Haha hillbilly, you got me. But to answer your question yes I do, all the time. Not to say you are a ignorant person who tosses...
Haha hillbilly, you got me.

But to answer your question yes I do, all the time. Not to say you are a ignorant person who tosses the kids in the back of the truck on your way to pick up the moonshine, but there is a good chance you are.

Just kidding! Keyboard had me worked up yesterday
hillbilly wrote:
They ride up front when I drink,safer when the law gets after us and I need to shot my firearm out the winder.
I shouldn't judge hillbillies hillbilly. I just had a lady over to trim our pigs hooves
hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN, USA
3/23/2015 11:01am
KennyT wrote:
Haha hillbilly, you got me. But to answer your question yes I do, all the time. Not to say you are a ignorant person who tosses...
Haha hillbilly, you got me.

But to answer your question yes I do, all the time. Not to say you are a ignorant person who tosses the kids in the back of the truck on your way to pick up the moonshine, but there is a good chance you are.

Just kidding! Keyboard had me worked up yesterday
hillbilly wrote:
They ride up front when I drink,safer when the law gets after us and I need to shot my firearm out the winder.
KennyT wrote:
I shouldn't judge hillbillies hillbilly. I just had a lady over to trim our pigs hooves
You ment redneck,see them all the time here
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
3/23/2015 11:07am
hillbilly wrote:
They ride up front when I drink,safer when the law gets after us and I need to shot my firearm out the winder.
KennyT wrote:
I shouldn't judge hillbillies hillbilly. I just had a lady over to trim our pigs hooves
hillbilly wrote:
You ment redneck,see them all the time here
I heard a pretty funny line on DMXS a while back about the difference between a redneck and a hillbilly. It was something along the lines of: a redneck will kill ya', but a hillbilly will keep ya'. I laughed by ass off at that one.
NCProaction
Posts
77
Joined
2/25/2010
Location
Fuquay Varina, NC, USA
3/23/2015 12:31pm
Trying to take a break from the daily grind by reading this post as I watch my neighbors children run around with helmets on just to play in the yard. So many points of view on this and all have credibility! Coming from a father of a professional motocrosser, whose son is far from making a living, and growing up riding in the back of a pickup daily, I have come to this conclusion on the whole Risk vs Reward thing.
Risk= involving exposure to danger
We are exposed to this everyday of our lives one way or another, driving to work, flying, parachuting, racing, or playing in my neighbors yard evidently!

Reward= a thing given in recognition ones service, effort, or achievement
Driving to work=get there faster than walking, flying= get there faster than driving, parachuting= thrill of knowing you are much crazier than you neighbor, racing= winning purse money, trophies, spending time with family, playing in neighbors yard= Sorry can't think of any reward other than those protective helmets!

My point is most of us Risk something everyday for a Reward, some of us are just willing to Risk more than others. That's what make us all different and us all HUMAN! Trust me I have had a talk with my son about hanging this up and calling it quits but the truth is he loves it, and to him he is not truly living without this fix. He doesn't drink or do drugs he is addicted to the adrenaline rush of his motorcycle. I pray for him everyday, trust me, as a parent you worry. I love him and support him anyway I can.

By the way I heard about the Heoft family and my thoughts and prayers go out to them.

Jeff Zimmer
3/23/2015 1:05pm
Racing is far more dangerous than motocrossing or SXing for fun.

It's pushing the edge all the time and racing traffic that gets you hurt
(For the most part)

hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
3/23/2015 1:20pm
I think we've all discussed the topic and we've reached the point that nothing new is really being said. Both sides seem to be pretty solid in their opinions and don't appear to be willing to be influenced one way or the other. The only thing I will say is that the fact that it's even being discussed as much as it's being discussed and the broad range of people taking part in the discussions does speak volumes, at least to me.
MotoMalyDad
Posts
701
Joined
4/19/2012
Location
Santa Maria, CA, USA
3/23/2015 1:33pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
I think we've all discussed the topic and we've reached the point that nothing new is really being said. Both sides seem to be pretty solid...
I think we've all discussed the topic and we've reached the point that nothing new is really being said. Both sides seem to be pretty solid in their opinions and don't appear to be willing to be influenced one way or the other. The only thing I will say is that the fact that it's even being discussed as much as it's being discussed and the broad range of people taking part in the discussions does speak volumes, at least to me.
So are you trying to say "move on" ?
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
3/23/2015 1:41pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
I think we've all discussed the topic and we've reached the point that nothing new is really being said. Both sides seem to be pretty solid...
I think we've all discussed the topic and we've reached the point that nothing new is really being said. Both sides seem to be pretty solid in their opinions and don't appear to be willing to be influenced one way or the other. The only thing I will say is that the fact that it's even being discussed as much as it's being discussed and the broad range of people taking part in the discussions does speak volumes, at least to me.
So are you trying to say "move on" ?
Honestly, I don't really know what I'm saying. It just reminds me of when you start arguing with people and before you know it, you're so far off topic you forget what the original topic was. The realist side of me knows I'm probably just pissing into the wind anyways. I don't think for one minute that anything will change. It will probably just keep chugging along. There will be more fatalities (shitty thing to say, I know, and I hope i'm wrong) and we will have this convo again.

To the guys that have said find a new sport. You're right, too. I'm definitely not cut out to be a "mini-dad" and I know that. I'm also aware enough to realize that my involvement (or lack thereof) in the sport is not a loss to anyone. The sport won't change one bit because of my opinion and/or involvement at the enthusiast level (nor should it). For now, i'll just stick to being a fan and following the sport as close as I can because I do love the sport and want to see it thrive.
Tracktor
Posts
2343
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
The RTF/Amboy, WA, USA
3/23/2015 2:14pm
You don't understand how the whole "per capita" thing works when using statistics do ya?

I ride/race and so do my boys. We use the terms risk/reward all the time in reference to MX. My older boy learned it fristhand after trying a "big" jump indoors and breaking his lower leg. He wanted to be the first guy to try it & tried to explain that he hit bigger, better stuff outdoors all the time and if he got hurt it wouldn't be worth it. He tried anyway and was off the bike for a couple months....................It's an almost mathematical ratio we do. If you are going to do something risky it should be rewarding in proportion..........
A. DLeary
Posts
537
Joined
3/13/2015
Location
USA
3/23/2015 2:27pm
Zracer wrote:
Not for the child thats racing dirtbikes, His chance of dying on the track is far greater than in a car.
Any of you want to give me the "per capita" statistics that show racing MX bikes is more dangerous than driving your kids to school in the morning?
NV825
Posts
2175
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Carson City, NV, USA
3/23/2015 3:11pm
It's about an even 50/50 split for risk vs. reward when I look at my life with mx. The rewards were amazing including spending 40+ weekends with my parents, making incredible life-long friends, and the adrenaline rush of being on the starting line and having the gate drop.

The risks were just as abundant with numerous broken bones, surgeries, concussions, bikes/parts breaking, etc.

As the father of a 1.5 year old son, I already have a CRF50 for him when he grows a bit older but I am VERY hesitant about ever taking him to a track to ride. I'm most likely going to just get him riding in the open areas out here and grow that into some fun trail rides. I just have that feeling that he's going to get bit by the same adrenaline bug I did and ending up wanting to race at some point. I guess if I can ingrain the thought of fast but in total control is good enough then he will have fun regardless if he's 1st place or last.

I hope he finds playing golf with me more enjoyable and can transform it into something ideal like a college scholarship.

Post a reply to: Risk Vs Reward

The Latest