AC222>SE72

Park Boys
Posts
3872
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
Edited Date/Time 3/24/2015 12:24pm
For all the GP followers do you understand what I already know, that AC is miles ahead of SE72 especially if you consider where there at, at age 29. AC has won 8 titles vs SE's 4. Do you guys finally think like I do, meaning AC is far and away the best modern GP rider? Serious responses only please.
|
2/12/2015 10:35pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2015 10:35pm
Well yeah? Modern. As everts was in the 90s/00s

Everts had more competition though and rode through the heyday of motocross in my opinion. The 90s
ill only watch the gps this yr as poto is riding, and im a european. Its true though, gps are generally a snoozfest
Derpin' DJ
Posts
6421
Joined
5/27/2011
Location
Newcastle, AU
2/12/2015 10:35pm
Everts' technique aged like a fine wine - he rode his best in his later years. I don't think its fair to compare them right now based on how many titles they won by what age. Evert's last season was phenomenal; was only beaten 3 motos out of 30.
segers
Posts
244
Joined
10/2/2012
Location
Grobbendonk, BE
2/12/2015 10:37pm
Se72 did it with 40 on the gate
Park Boys
Posts
3872
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
2/12/2015 10:48pm
segers wrote:
Se72 did it with 40 on the gate
Regardless SE72 lost to Greg for a couple of titles and it only took Seb one year to beat him. The 40 man gate means nothing considering the challengers will always be there, 31 through 40 would not beat SE72 or AC222.

The Shop

Park Boys
Posts
3872
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
2/12/2015 11:00pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Everts' technique aged like a fine wine - he rode his best in his later years. I don't think its fair to compare them right now...
Everts' technique aged like a fine wine - he rode his best in his later years. I don't think its fair to compare them right now based on how many titles they won by what age. Evert's last season was phenomenal; was only beaten 3 motos out of 30.
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack of respect from the GP community.
kongols
Posts
24230
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga, LV
2/12/2015 11:08pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Everts' technique aged like a fine wine - he rode his best in his later years. I don't think its fair to compare them right now...
Everts' technique aged like a fine wine - he rode his best in his later years. I don't think its fair to compare them right now based on how many titles they won by what age. Evert's last season was phenomenal; was only beaten 3 motos out of 30.
Park Boys wrote:
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack...
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack of respect from the GP community.
Yeah, but after age of 29 Everts won 6 titles. I don`t see Cairoli doing the same. MX has changed.
Park Boys
Posts
3872
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
2/12/2015 11:16pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Everts' technique aged like a fine wine - he rode his best in his later years. I don't think its fair to compare them right now...
Everts' technique aged like a fine wine - he rode his best in his later years. I don't think its fair to compare them right now based on how many titles they won by what age. Evert's last season was phenomenal; was only beaten 3 motos out of 30.
Park Boys wrote:
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack...
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack of respect from the GP community.
kongols wrote:
Yeah, but after age of 29 Everts won 6 titles. I don`t see Cairoli doing the same. MX has changed.
MX has changed because of guys like AC. I agree AC wont win 6 more titles, but he dosent have to....... 8 world titles at the age of 28 is unheard of.
kongols
Posts
24230
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga, LV
2/12/2015 11:18pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2015 11:21pm
Park Boys wrote:
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack...
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack of respect from the GP community.
kongols wrote:
Yeah, but after age of 29 Everts won 6 titles. I don`t see Cairoli doing the same. MX has changed.
Park Boys wrote:
MX has changed because of guys like AC. I agree AC wont win 6 more titles, but he dosent have to....... 8 world titles at the...
MX has changed because of guys like AC. I agree AC wont win 6 more titles, but he dosent have to....... 8 world titles at the age of 28 is unheard of.
Ņo one disputing that. AC is in a class of his own in GP`s. And MX has changed because of guy`s like Everts and Carmichael. Cairoli continued what Everts started. Everts started it late. I bet if he had a wisdom he had around 30 years old he would have won even more.
TMV
Posts
1762
Joined
3/17/2009
Location
FR
2/12/2015 11:20pm
I can see what you mean but numbers don't make SE72's carreer justice (his number of GP victories aside). To me Everts had more competition. Cairoli never had beasts like Tortelli to fight against. He had Pourcel for a couple of years but had him covered when healthy. But don't get me wrong AC222 is the shit (with Herlings) in Europe, super talented and smart rider. At last this year he will have someone to give him a run for his money and we will see what he really has in the tank. That's an awesome news for every fan of the sport.
Park Boys
Posts
3872
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
2/12/2015 11:34pm
TMV wrote:
I can see what you mean but numbers don't make SE72's carreer justice (his number of GP victories aside). To me Everts had more competition. Cairoli...
I can see what you mean but numbers don't make SE72's carreer justice (his number of GP victories aside). To me Everts had more competition. Cairoli never had beasts like Tortelli to fight against. He had Pourcel for a couple of years but had him covered when healthy. But don't get me wrong AC222 is the shit (with Herlings) in Europe, super talented and smart rider. At last this year he will have someone to give him a run for his money and we will see what he really has in the tank. That's an awesome news for every fan of the sport.
I can see where you are coming from with the competition side, I think part of AC's problem is his absolute dominance over his competitors especially since moving up to 450's. SE72 was beat for titles by Albee and Seb, because he was beat and the fact that he was put on a pedestal I think that the GP guys put SE72 way up there when in fact he was beat multiple times in his career up to this point unlike AC. I agree though with the fact that AC has never faced a challenge like RV. IT will be legendary! I hope they stay healthy, knocking on wood as we speak!
RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics, GB
2/12/2015 11:51pm
I think I would probably agree with you. Everts was an incredible rider, but I think that Cairoli has surpassed him. To win 6 world titles on a row is unheard of, to pretty much never miss a beat for 6 years is absolutely incredible. Like you said, Everts got beat quite a few times for the championship and maybe would have lost a couple more had it not been for injuries to his competition. Everts was amazing, but AC is the man now
kongols
Posts
24230
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga, LV
2/13/2015 12:07am
RY4N37 wrote:
I think I would probably agree with you. Everts was an incredible rider, but I think that Cairoli has surpassed him. To win 6 world titles...
I think I would probably agree with you. Everts was an incredible rider, but I think that Cairoli has surpassed him. To win 6 world titles on a row is unheard of, to pretty much never miss a beat for 6 years is absolutely incredible. Like you said, Everts got beat quite a few times for the championship and maybe would have lost a couple more had it not been for injuries to his competition. Everts was amazing, but AC is the man now
Everts won 6 in a row.
RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics, GB
2/13/2015 12:11am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2015 12:11am
kongols wrote:
Everts won 6 in a row.
Really? I didn't think he'd won that many in a row. Anyway, I still Cairoli is now better, and for the last few years has had more competition than Everts had for much of his career
Park Boys
Posts
3872
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
2/13/2015 12:11am
RY4N37 wrote:
I think I would probably agree with you. Everts was an incredible rider, but I think that Cairoli has surpassed him. To win 6 world titles...
I think I would probably agree with you. Everts was an incredible rider, but I think that Cairoli has surpassed him. To win 6 world titles on a row is unheard of, to pretty much never miss a beat for 6 years is absolutely incredible. Like you said, Everts got beat quite a few times for the championship and maybe would have lost a couple more had it not been for injuries to his competition. Everts was amazing, but AC is the man now
kongols wrote:
Everts won 6 in a row.
He did, but not in the same class. SE won the 500cc class which was not the permire title two times in a row before he won the permire title four times in a row. No one has won the premire class six times in a row like AC has.
Crush
Posts
21154
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
2/13/2015 1:50am
Didnt Rattray and/or Pourcell beat tony to Lites titles?

Personally I think Stefan could have beaten Tony for sure, he was unchallenged on his day, and even tho he lost to Tortelli and Albee, those titles could have gone the other way quite easily, Stefan definitely had better comp... Antonio's main comp the last few years haven't even been healthy, not that I think they'd challenge him regardless...
Olson
Posts
4605
Joined
4/14/2012
Location
SE
2/13/2015 2:48am
Everts won 125, 250 and 500 GP overall on the same day.
Fearo
Posts
1383
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
BE
2/13/2015 3:07am
Dumbgeon.

Faster. Faster.. FASTER...
2/13/2015 4:18am
SE72 faced different talent with different equipment spread over almost 2 damn decades.
Things changed allot in the orginization of the competition as well. 3 Different classes, different promoters (Dorna), etc.

If you look at pure numbers, sure. But MX is more then just numbers.

Didnt Rattray and/or Pourcell beat tony to Lites titles?

Lost 3 out of 5 titles in MX2.
RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics, GB
2/13/2015 4:30am
Crush wrote:
Didnt Rattray and/or Pourcell beat tony to Lites titles? Personally I think Stefan could have beaten Tony for sure, he was unchallenged on his day, and...
Didnt Rattray and/or Pourcell beat tony to Lites titles?

Personally I think Stefan could have beaten Tony for sure, he was unchallenged on his day, and even tho he lost to Tortelli and Albee, those titles could have gone the other way quite easily, Stefan definitely had better comp... Antonio's main comp the last few years haven't even been healthy, not that I think they'd challenge him regardless...
Pourcel beat him straight up for the MX2 title, Cairoli suffered a bad knee injury mid-season when leading the championship the year that Rattray won. If you exclude his first full season, Pourcel is the only person to beat Cairoli straight up for a title.

Everts was a class act though, there's not much in it. I remember 2006 in particular he was absolutely unstoppable
Olson
Posts
4605
Joined
4/14/2012
Location
SE
2/13/2015 4:33am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2015 4:36am
RY4N37 wrote:
Pourcel beat him straight up for the MX2 title, Cairoli suffered a bad knee injury mid-season when leading the championship the year that Rattray won. If...
Pourcel beat him straight up for the MX2 title, Cairoli suffered a bad knee injury mid-season when leading the championship the year that Rattray won. If you exclude his first full season, Pourcel is the only person to beat Cairoli straight up for a title.

Everts was a class act though, there's not much in it. I remember 2006 in particular he was absolutely unstoppable
Yes, absolutely dominant. Lost three motos that season, to a 19 year old Kevin Strijbos and to Sébastien Tortelli and Joshua Coppins. All on them very good riders. Can always wonder what would've been if Tortelli didn't get injured.
RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics, GB
2/13/2015 4:38am
Olson wrote:
Yes, absolutely dominant. Lost three motos that season, to a 19 year old Kevin Strijbos and to Sébastien Tortelli and Joshua Coppins. All on them very...
Yes, absolutely dominant. Lost three motos that season, to a 19 year old Kevin Strijbos and to Sébastien Tortelli and Joshua Coppins. All on them very good riders. Can always wonder what would've been if Tortelli didn't get injured.
I seem to remember one of those losses being when he crashed whilst celebrating? I could be wrong.

It's a real shame Tortelli had so many injuries and had to retire early. Could've won an awful lot more than he did. Yet another Frenchman with natural talent by the sackful
timlake
Posts
157
Joined
10/19/2012
Location
GB
2/13/2015 4:39am
I don't think you can ever compare two riders from different era's. In terms of success, maybe you can, but in terms of skill and being the best rider? Only having them on the same track at the same time in the same conditions can determine that.

Just like we'll never know if RV2 is better than McGrath or RC.

Olson
Posts
4605
Joined
4/14/2012
Location
SE
2/13/2015 4:47am
timlake wrote:
I don't think you can ever compare two riders from different era's. In terms of success, maybe you can, but in terms of skill and being...
I don't think you can ever compare two riders from different era's. In terms of success, maybe you can, but in terms of skill and being the best rider? Only having them on the same track at the same time in the same conditions can determine that.

Just like we'll never know if RV2 is better than McGrath or RC.

Exactly. Just like comparing Gretzky/Crosby, Pelé/Maradona. Except in motorcycle racing, it's more than the game that develops, equipment, tracks etc.
Crush
Posts
21154
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
2/13/2015 4:53am
RY4N37 wrote:
Pourcel beat him straight up for the MX2 title, Cairoli suffered a bad knee injury mid-season when leading the championship the year that Rattray won. If...
Pourcel beat him straight up for the MX2 title, Cairoli suffered a bad knee injury mid-season when leading the championship the year that Rattray won. If you exclude his first full season, Pourcel is the only person to beat Cairoli straight up for a title.

Everts was a class act though, there's not much in it. I remember 2006 in particular he was absolutely unstoppable
Mmm, looks like Rattray pretty comprehensively outscored him till he went out tho that year... when did he pick up his title?
RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics, GB
2/13/2015 5:03am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2015 5:04am
Crush wrote:
Mmm, looks like Rattray pretty comprehensively outscored him till he went out tho that year... when did he pick up his title?
Just looking back at results it look's as though you were kinda half right, Rattray was leading the championship when AC went out, but only by 4 points, so it was pretty close. I thought I remembred Cairoli having the red plate in the race where he did his knee, but obviously not. My bad.
Rattray didn't win the title until the last round, it's hard to say what would've happened had Cairoli not gone out
Crush
Posts
21154
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
2/13/2015 5:10am
Ah only 4 points, I just quicky added them both in my head... it is quite late here tho... Yeah could have gone either way, I guess my point was more around the comp that AC/SE lost too, and how...

People forgot SE broke his collarbone in 94, a bunch of dnfs in 93... and Tortelli and him were fucking close, but either way, he lost to two multi time champs but then smashed all the other multi time champs he raced... Tony has lost to Tyla and CP, and then really, he's had it much easier I think talent wise than Stefan did... IF CP/Tyla/Townley/Roczen all stayed then....
RY4N37
Posts
1551
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
Leics, GB
2/13/2015 5:20am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2015 6:11am
It's difficult to say really, you could argue that some of Everts toughest competition went to the US too. Like Pichon and Tortelli, although they did come back eventually.

You could argue it either way, you could say that the competition that Cairoli has had has not been as strong, or you could say that he's that good it makes it seem that way. At the end of the day they are 2 of the greatest the sport has seen
vlh
Posts
31
Joined
4/17/2013
Location
Seekonk, MA, USA
2/13/2015 6:22am
I do agree AC is one of the greats but for me he needs to race both mx1 and mx2 on the same day and dominate both races the way SE did.
2/13/2015 7:15am
MX has changed, Herlings will have more titles than both of them simply because the rule changes made the MX2 a youth class and Herlings is just sandbagging.

Lets see how cairoli does the next few years. He's at 8 titles right now, and at least half of those were watered down competion. If he gets to 10 or 11 against RV and Paulin then you can make the argument. I get the feeling that Paulin is getting to his level. Everts had more competition and did it for a long time. Everts raced against Donnie Schmidt, Greg Albertyn, Sebastian Tortelli, Mikael Pichon.
Ninurta
Posts
338
Joined
9/24/2014
Location
BE
2/13/2015 7:55am
Park Boys wrote:
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack...
Agreed, but the numbers speak for themselves. AC is clearly better age for age. The only reason I bring this up is because of AC's lack of respect from the GP community.
kongols wrote:
Yeah, but after age of 29 Everts won 6 titles. I don`t see Cairoli doing the same. MX has changed.
Park Boys wrote:
MX has changed because of guys like AC. I agree AC wont win 6 more titles, but he dosent have to....... 8 world titles at the...
MX has changed because of guys like AC. I agree AC wont win 6 more titles, but he dosent have to....... 8 world titles at the age of 28 is unheard of.
I agree that AC is ahead of SE at this point. I think that AC has had a more stable entourage then SE did in his younger years.
Everts was a handfull for the teams and on the other hand he had his fair share of problems... like you said he won 6 titles after age 29 when he had everything dialled in.
Cairoli has had the maturity to dominate early. That in combination with a stable team enviroment made him the best in GP's.

Post a reply to: AC222>SE72

The Latest