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I did set myself up for that one. It was an argument that was supposed to be wrong and absurd, the point was to show that fallacious arguments are meaningless in any absolute sense. I missed the mark in making my point.
You should give a fuck about rationality because you cannot demonstrate that I am wrong in regards to induction.
I said that I don't give a fuck about your rationality. If you actually put the problem of induction in to practice, you can clearly see the absurdity of it. It's based on the assumption that absolute certainty actually exists. When I say that I can demonstrate that you are wrong, I am talking about high probabilities. Like any presupp, you will most likely say "define existence, define knowledge, define truth." After I do so, you'll simply go "how do you know?? (repeat x1,000.)
For example, vaccines. I've already admitted in numerous other threads that my position does not involve absolute certainty in any way. I believe, (by an evidence based trust, NOT FAITH) that vaccinations have met their burden of proof. The effectiveness of the proper application of science, in this and most cases, produces a more reliable result than any claim about disease that has ever been made by any god, deity, or prophet. Not only that, but none of them have been able to approach the level of predictive capability that science continues to demonstrate.
I can understand your enthusiasm for baited questions and the attempts to force others to play buy your specific rule set, after all, the people you get your shit philosophy from mostly did the same. They seek to prove a creator that; paradoxically, has pushed him/her/it further and further into exclusion from any actual explanatory value, by their own ideas and evidences!
In case you didn't get my point, Hume was right if absolute certainty exists, and is attainable. Does it? Are you sure of that? How do you know? Define "know!"
We can do that dance, and when it's all over, you attempt to turn off your computer (what is a computer, socrates?) You most likely will have a reasonable expectation that it indeed will turn off, but are you sure it won't just morph into the virgin mary?
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I once got nerd to quit arguing and discuss stuff in a benign manner. Took all the fun outa it though.
I did set myself up for that one. It was an argument that was supposed to be wrong and absurd, the point was to show that fallacious arguments are meaningless in any absolute sense. I missed the mark in making my point.
This is me saying that my syllogism was wrong in form, structure, and proving my point.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccine-mccarthyism-what-if-the-vaccine-paradigm-itself-is-deliberately-flawed/5427768
I hope you take the time to read it and come to your own conclusion. I see your side of the argument but I also think things have changed over the years. A lot of young parents are having to spend a lot of time researching what is going on with their kids because the Doctors can't answer their questions. A lot of medicine and food is pushed on us before we know what the side effects are. These are problems that older parents have not dealt with because their children were old enough to deal with the mirade of crap in the environment (food and medicine) these days. The jump in GMO's and vaccines is crazy. Just look at the vaccine schedule from 20 years ago vs. today. GMO's were not relevent 20 years ago but today they are everywhere.
I'm sure most of you are thinking "great, GMO'S, here we go" but let me share this with you..My son is allergic to corn. The doctors said it was "excersise enduced athsma" (at age 2), after they did the allergy test for every possible allergy, but everytime we gave him corn he became congested to the point that we needed to use athsma medicine. Through elimination, we found it was corn - GMO corn. if we give him non-GMO, organic corn then he has no symtoms. we tested this with popcorn, prepared from scratch, several times, because we couldn't believe it ourselves.
I believe things will come around and it will make sense in the future but right now it's so emotional for so many people that don't understand what young parents are dealing with. It's not the doctors fault either, they are doing what they believe is right and what they were taught. Unfortunately, it has to do with money and a herd mentality.
Wood, here's a read on what we know about Intuition.
Enteric brain/4th brain In a nutshell: brain in the ventral area connecting us to our intuition Definition: We have three cranial brains, the reptilian, mammalian and cortical “brains” as one central nervous system. Then we have a fourth system of nerves, ganglia, and complex nervous system that runs from the gonads up to the upper chest, covering the viscera or ventral area. This is the enteric brain. This is the part of you that processes what we call “intuition” and much more. It is the part of you that just “knows,” but often gets lost in the chatter and flawed observations and deductions of the conscious mind. This brain also uses a languaging system completely different from that used by the cortical brain. The latter is linear, intellectual and verbal in essence. The enteric brain uses a completely different languaging system - one which is nonverbal, polysensorial, drawing information from information clouds and information cumuli that are can be accessed by linear and nonlinear grasping (used here as the acquisition of information by “closure on the meaning” as knowingness). The enteric brain is also not able to function by grasping information in nonlocal modality as well; in other words, it can grasp information emanating from the other side of Planet Earth, from the edge of the galaxy, the edge of the universe, and from relative locations as the T-boundary.
lpg-c.org/
And if that's the case, which I don't think they have been able to disprove so the association leads some to believe
there is causation and in fact there might be. Having said that why can't they reformulate the preservative and
put all this nonsense behind us. My kids all got vaccinated. I just started getting my vaccinations a couple of months ago.
I literally have none, well 1. Complete wiped immune system. I think this month I get another, slow process.
Had to laugh about you turning this into religion though.
TM
So I not sure that the problem was with the vaccine but the preservative they sometimes put in the vaccine.
And if that's the case, which I don't think they have been able to disprove so the association leads some to believe
there is causation and in fact there might be.
The guy that wrote the initial paper, Andrew Wakefield, (on the dangers of vaccines) has been shown to, and admitted to falsifying data. He's since had his medical license revoked. The title of the thread comes from that study which convinced people that vaccinations lead to autism, and another group of crazies that say all of them are bad for (insert psuedo-science here.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy
This is a huge problem that goes down to how people form beliefs. It is very difficult to prove something doesn't exist to somebody that really believes that it does. The reality here is that the people making the claim that the preservative causes autism (or anything else,) would have to demonstrate that it does. Basically I'm saying, yes there is nothing to disprove a claim that hasn't ever been demonstrated to even exist, and it would be impossible to do so.
Many will simply site the rise in autism cases since this bullshit study came out, but the main reason for this rise is simple better detection for autism. Medical science understands it better, and can diagnose it earlier than they ever have been able to in the past.
That they are full of shit because the "studies so far" don't support your claim?
Not good enough.
TM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccine-mccarthyism-what-if-the-vaccine-pa…
I'm going to start off by rejecting that entire website as a conspiracy nut website. Anytime somebody starts off their article with "mainstream scientists," or "mainstream archeologists," or "mainstream whatever," there is an immediate red flag. There is a reason why these ideas are "mainstream." They go through a rigorous process of testing and peer review to determine their accuracy and reliability. This is not to say they they absolutely cannot be wrong, it simply means that it is the best data we have. It holds up under scrutiny. The reason why these other ideas call themselves "alternative" is because they haven't held up under testing.
I hope you take the time to read it and come to your own conclusion. I see your side of the argument but I also think things have changed over the years. A lot of young parents are having to spend a lot of time researching what is going on with their kids because the Doctors can't answer their questions.
I get it. Parents would do anything for their kids. I'm not a parent but I have a nephew that has seizures under a fever, and the family doctor doesn't know why. I love the kid, and would do anything to be able to fix it. But, these things are so complex that I just realize I don't have the knowledge to even understand the problem. Well, the next step is to go deeper with a specialist, not to reject all medicine because a doctor doesn't know why it's happening. I'm all about parents researching and learning, but the danger there is becoming convinced over some internet article...especially some conspiracy site, or some guy on reddit that has kids that haven't had the problems...even though he only feeds them natural wheat.
A lot of medicine and food is pushed on us before we know what the side effects are. These are problems that older parents have not dealt with because their children were old enough to deal with the mirade of crap in the environment (food and medicine) these days.
I'm not going to quote the rest because you've really said it all here. Are you aware of how much the overall life expectancy has changed? Do you have anyone living in your family that has polio, for example?
Older parents haven't had to deal with it because there was no mechanism for them to really learn. Older parents didn't have to deal with technology that had almost all human knowledge readily available at their fingertips.
Lastly, I'll simply repeat myself. Science is not infallible. It can, and will be wrong in specific cases in the future. However, the overall trend is simply astounding. We are on the right track. All of the overall statistics show that. It wasn't that long ago in moto where a guy would blow his knee out, or break his wrist the wrong way, and just be done. While your doctor may not have been able diagnose a corn allergy, it is imperative that doctors know and learn from that. There is no guarantee that if you have an evidence based trust in science, it will magically fix everything. It simply means that your odds are getting better. There is a convergence on solutions.
I'm certainly not saying to avoid skepticism. Skepticism is the backbone of the entire thing. However, you start from a skeptic position, but allow evidence to change that position.
To tell parents to go to the doctor is like telling you to take your bike to a car mechanic. You know what is wrong, and how to fix it, and the mechanic knows what is wrong but doesn't want to fix it so you either go to a specialist or you learn about it from your trusted friends in Vital.
When/if you ever have kids, you will understand. I'm not trying to be a dick but you have no idea what you are talking about.
Pit Row
The age is roughly around the same time as vaccinations and has nothing to do with ANY component of the vaccine.
The same children that got diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder at that time would've gotten it with or without the shots because the shots don't cause autism.
I can't tell you how many children with autism we must turn away at the Life Center and never get the help they need because people blame the shots for what happened and won't get them even after the fact.
Not a single program that helps kids with autism will tell you not to get the shots and most demand it because the shots don't cause autism.
Tired of being involved/helping in that community and having to hear misinformation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2857525/
And yes, they've looked into and continue to look into immunization with absolutly no evidence showing it causes it.
But the damage had been done
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/02/150206-measles-vaccine-…
Hate that man.
That's the reason kids will be passing away from measles in the future.
The man should be in jail awaiting the death penalty.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/debunking-vaccine-junk-science-wont-ch…
In a study on perceptions of flu shots, he found correcting myths had the opposite of the desired effect on the most vaccine-skeptical among us. In another study on the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, he found that myth-busting actually increased some parents' wariness about the shot. In his political research, he has demonstrated that giving people corrective information can deepen their misperceptions — findings that dishearten any debunker.
It's sad that one asshole causes people to go completely nuts, and put everyone at risk.
Post a reply to: The dangers of falsified science.