Lance Armstrong: Stop at Nothing

IWreckALot
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Edited Date/Time 1/9/2015 2:39pm
I know this site has beat this to a pulp but Showtime is airing the Lance Armstrong: Stop at Nothing documentary. I'd heard several people say that he "ruined people's lives". I guess I didn't realize the extent that he went to cover up his cheating and to what degree he was cheating while forcing everyone else on his team to cheat. And to use cancer as a crutch through the whole thing takes it to yet another low.

I hate to say, but I was one of the guys that doubted that he cheated when it was going on.

My only question is, why isn't he in prison? I'd throw his name in with Bernie Madoff and Jerry Sandusky.

If you get a chance to watch the documentary, it's rather educational about how that whole fiasco went down.
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jonjon714
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1/7/2015 5:52am
Really need to watch it 2 or 3 times to sort everything out, at least I did because I knew nobody in cycling. And I agree about the jail part, one of the world's scummiest douchebags for sure. Just think of the income this guy cost some people....
hvaughn88
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1/7/2015 6:10am
IWreckALot wrote:
I know this site has beat this to a pulp but Showtime is airing the Lance Armstrong: Stop at Nothing documentary. I'd heard several people say...
I know this site has beat this to a pulp but Showtime is airing the Lance Armstrong: Stop at Nothing documentary. I'd heard several people say that he "ruined people's lives". I guess I didn't realize the extent that he went to cover up his cheating and to what degree he was cheating while forcing everyone else on his team to cheat. And to use cancer as a crutch through the whole thing takes it to yet another low.

I hate to say, but I was one of the guys that doubted that he cheated when it was going on.

My only question is, why isn't he in prison? I'd throw his name in with Bernie Madoff and Jerry Sandusky.

If you get a chance to watch the documentary, it's rather educational about how that whole fiasco went down.
It's an eye opener for sure. Between that fiasco and listening to Victor Conte on the Joe Rogan podcast, I don't give any athletes the benefit of the doubt when it comes to PEDs, accusations, etc. I'm a fan first and foremost, but I'm also not naïve and refuse to put any athlete on a pedestal.
DoctorJD
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1/7/2015 7:35am
My view of LA changed totally after I read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. Great read, btw, if you want to see how prevalent the drug culture was in cycling during that time.
disbanded
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1/7/2015 7:38am
Armstrong is a scumbag of the highest order.

The Shop

IWreckALot
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1/7/2015 8:20am
DoctorJD wrote:
My view of LA changed totally after I read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. Great read, btw, if you want to see how prevalent the...
My view of LA changed totally after I read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. Great read, btw, if you want to see how prevalent the drug culture was in cycling during that time.
Do you or does anyone else believe it is a clean sport now? I don't really know enough to form an opinion. I don't follow it all that closely. I do watch it when it's on TV just because I appreciate anyone who can ride a bicycle for as long as they do and as fast as they do.

I would think if the sport was dirty back then, and it has been cleaned up, that the speeds would have slowed down or even the race itself would have to be changed.
Old-Man
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1/7/2015 8:33am
I thought the part where they used to run into the Bar and chug a couple beers down just to numb the pain was cool but Ya, this dude needs to be in jail to learn what humility is all about.
DoctorJD
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1/7/2015 9:09am
DoctorJD wrote:
My view of LA changed totally after I read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. Great read, btw, if you want to see how prevalent the...
My view of LA changed totally after I read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. Great read, btw, if you want to see how prevalent the drug culture was in cycling during that time.
IWreckALot wrote:
Do you or does anyone else believe it is a clean sport now? I don't really know enough to form an opinion. I don't follow it...
Do you or does anyone else believe it is a clean sport now? I don't really know enough to form an opinion. I don't follow it all that closely. I do watch it when it's on TV just because I appreciate anyone who can ride a bicycle for as long as they do and as fast as they do.

I would think if the sport was dirty back then, and it has been cleaned up, that the speeds would have slowed down or even the race itself would have to be changed.
Hell no, the dopers are simply a few steps ahead of the testers. In the book I referenced, Tyler Hamilton said that US Postal actually had a refrigerator on the team bus specifically for drugs, right out in the open. And it sounded as if this was common practice among teams. He estimated that in those days, something like 90% of the competitors were doping on some level. I think they're still doing it, their doctors have simply become much better at masking it.
hvaughn88
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1/7/2015 9:38am
DoctorJD wrote:
My view of LA changed totally after I read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. Great read, btw, if you want to see how prevalent the...
My view of LA changed totally after I read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. Great read, btw, if you want to see how prevalent the drug culture was in cycling during that time.
IWreckALot wrote:
Do you or does anyone else believe it is a clean sport now? I don't really know enough to form an opinion. I don't follow it...
Do you or does anyone else believe it is a clean sport now? I don't really know enough to form an opinion. I don't follow it all that closely. I do watch it when it's on TV just because I appreciate anyone who can ride a bicycle for as long as they do and as fast as they do.

I would think if the sport was dirty back then, and it has been cleaned up, that the speeds would have slowed down or even the race itself would have to be changed.
DoctorJD wrote:
Hell no, the dopers are simply a few steps ahead of the testers. In the book I referenced, Tyler Hamilton said that US Postal actually had...
Hell no, the dopers are simply a few steps ahead of the testers. In the book I referenced, Tyler Hamilton said that US Postal actually had a refrigerator on the team bus specifically for drugs, right out in the open. And it sounded as if this was common practice among teams. He estimated that in those days, something like 90% of the competitors were doping on some level. I think they're still doing it, their doctors have simply become much better at masking it.
I agree. The PED is all about staying one step ahead of the tests. Minor leaguers have (anonymously) referenced a PED being used now that isn't detected and a test hasn't been developed for.
Uncle Tony
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1/7/2015 10:19am
Wow just got done watching it, he is the apitamy of a narcissist and a sociopath, it seems like all sports these days it's almost a must that the all the top guys dope, if you watch the documentary even Frankie Andreau, who did not want to dope, eventually buckled,sad
IWreckALot
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1/7/2015 10:33am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2015 10:33am
Uncle Tony wrote:
Wow just got done watching it, he is the apitamy of a narcissist and a sociopath, it seems like all sports these days it's almost a...
Wow just got done watching it, he is the apitamy of a narcissist and a sociopath, it seems like all sports these days it's almost a must that the all the top guys dope, if you watch the documentary even Frankie Andreau, who did not want to dope, eventually buckled,sad
The documentary did a really good and thorough job of painting the picture. The part that makes you realize how good of a liar he was is the part where they echo him saying the words "it's the same mentality through and through". Then they show another clip of him saying the same thing again in a different setting. Then they show him saying that it's a consistent accusation and how he never failed a drug test so why should anyone believe the accusations.

Then he goes on to say how "nobody would give him a chance".

He was just so consistent, persistent and damning with his denial it was difficult to believe he was doping to the general public.

Like I said, I didn't realize how intricate his scandal was until I saw that documentary. I imagine it's only gotten more convoluted and more difficult to detect.
PalerBlue
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1/8/2015 10:57am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2015 10:58am
Plenty of people said on here what a p.o.s. he was prior to all of this becoming clear to you but we were all written off as anti American "haters" .

Yes "The Secret Race" is a great read and you can't help but feel sorry for Tyler H. for becoming a victim of the culture, just like Paul Kimmage who wrote "Rough Ride" and was also a victim of PEDs. (Kimmage was also the journalist who called Armstrong cycling's cancer to his face in the press conference and got a real battering here).

Despite ALL of the things that have been revealed, I still think Armstrong's achievements were super-human. It's just a shame he destroyed so many other careers doing it.
Uncle Tony
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1/8/2015 11:43am
I think lance was a great cyclist regardless of peds, look they're all doing it, like Tyler Hamilton said "no one held a gun to my head" what I think lance's crime is his ruthlessness, iwreckalot,I don't know about jail time? Like it said in the documentary.90 percent of the cyclists would be in jail, and in other sports also, motocross included, to lump him in with Bernie madoff and jerry Sandusky, is a little harsh, one stole billions and the other a pedophile, but I understand your frustration, I never was a lance Armstrong fan anyway, from day one he struck me as an arrogant ass
71Fish
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1/8/2015 1:18pm
Well I may be the only one here who thinks in the area of competitive cycling that LA did nothing wrong in using PEDs. Bringing others down is a different matter, but using PEDs, I see no problem with that.

If he was the only one using that would be bad, mmk. But every rider that was on the podium during LA's 7 wins has been busted in some way for PEDs. Since he retired, 2 winners have been busted/suspended. One a repeat winner.
This tells me that cycling isn't clean, and most likely everyone in the peleton is using something.

Assuming LA was clean as he said he was, and beating riders who were using, I'm not naive enough the think he wasn't using as well. It was more of a "belief in out cycling hero" kind of thing. That was probably true for a lot of LA fans.

I guess what I'm saying is that since everyone was doing it, that made it ok. I'm still a fan of his cycling ability. The man, not so much.
IWreckALot
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1/9/2015 5:54am
71Fish wrote:
Well I may be the only one here who thinks in the area of competitive cycling that LA did nothing wrong in using PEDs. Bringing others...
Well I may be the only one here who thinks in the area of competitive cycling that LA did nothing wrong in using PEDs. Bringing others down is a different matter, but using PEDs, I see no problem with that.

If he was the only one using that would be bad, mmk. But every rider that was on the podium during LA's 7 wins has been busted in some way for PEDs. Since he retired, 2 winners have been busted/suspended. One a repeat winner.
This tells me that cycling isn't clean, and most likely everyone in the peleton is using something.

Assuming LA was clean as he said he was, and beating riders who were using, I'm not naive enough the think he wasn't using as well. It was more of a "belief in out cycling hero" kind of thing. That was probably true for a lot of LA fans.

I guess what I'm saying is that since everyone was doing it, that made it ok. I'm still a fan of his cycling ability. The man, not so much.
The root reason of banning PED's is so that athletes don't have to chemically destroy their body to win. If the whole peleton is alright with it, then I say legalize it. Let the best doper win. That's not much of a sport and I don't think it's good for any sport.

I don't understand how WADA delegates penalties. You say that TDF winners have tested positive and got suspended. If PED's are so prevalent in a sport, it seems like the organizers really needs to start issuing life bans on racing if they are busted with PED's. I say the organizers are as guilty as the guys sticking needles in their arm.

I follow your logic by saying to just allow it. I don't agree with it but we can agree to disagree.

I almost didn't compare LA to Madoff or Sandusky, but my comparison is that they all had the same mentality. Just because Lance didn't cause the amount of damage the other two did, I believe he would have taken as much money as Madoff and screwed up more peoples lives like Sandusky had the opportunity presented itself. The title Stop at Nothing is perfect for the documentary.
Uncle Tony
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1/9/2015 6:48am
Good point iwreckalot, I do like your statement, "let the best doper win" couldn't stop laughing, I don't agree with peds but I think it's here to stay, sportsman will always being looking for an advantage
71Fish
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1/9/2015 1:42pm
71Fish wrote:
Well I may be the only one here who thinks in the area of competitive cycling that LA did nothing wrong in using PEDs. Bringing others...
Well I may be the only one here who thinks in the area of competitive cycling that LA did nothing wrong in using PEDs. Bringing others down is a different matter, but using PEDs, I see no problem with that.

If he was the only one using that would be bad, mmk. But every rider that was on the podium during LA's 7 wins has been busted in some way for PEDs. Since he retired, 2 winners have been busted/suspended. One a repeat winner.
This tells me that cycling isn't clean, and most likely everyone in the peleton is using something.

Assuming LA was clean as he said he was, and beating riders who were using, I'm not naive enough the think he wasn't using as well. It was more of a "belief in out cycling hero" kind of thing. That was probably true for a lot of LA fans.

I guess what I'm saying is that since everyone was doing it, that made it ok. I'm still a fan of his cycling ability. The man, not so much.
IWreckALot wrote:
The root reason of banning PED's is so that athletes don't have to chemically destroy their body to win. If the whole peleton is alright with...
The root reason of banning PED's is so that athletes don't have to chemically destroy their body to win. If the whole peleton is alright with it, then I say legalize it. Let the best doper win. That's not much of a sport and I don't think it's good for any sport.

I don't understand how WADA delegates penalties. You say that TDF winners have tested positive and got suspended. If PED's are so prevalent in a sport, it seems like the organizers really needs to start issuing life bans on racing if they are busted with PED's. I say the organizers are as guilty as the guys sticking needles in their arm.

I follow your logic by saying to just allow it. I don't agree with it but we can agree to disagree.

I almost didn't compare LA to Madoff or Sandusky, but my comparison is that they all had the same mentality. Just because Lance didn't cause the amount of damage the other two did, I believe he would have taken as much money as Madoff and screwed up more peoples lives like Sandusky had the opportunity presented itself. The title Stop at Nothing is perfect for the documentary.
Do you really believe the root reason for banning PEDs is for the athlete's health? That may be a nice thing to say but I hardly believe it's true. It's for the same reason there are salary caps in ball sports and body and engine templates in motorsports; to level the playing field. A small cycling team with no stars can't compete with the well financed team with a rider competing for a podium.

I'd prefer there be no cheating or boosting of any type. But I also believe that if you aren't looking for an advantage you don't want to win bad enough. That advantage isn't necessarily cheating. It could be simply training longer than the other guys.

I didn't say TdF winners, but every other 2nd and 3rd place finisher has had PED issues, Now we know LA was also one of them. If memory serves, since Lance's last win, only the most recent winner hasn't been in trouble that I know of. If you want stage races, it's really easy to tell when I guy boosts from one day to the next.

The idea of a lifetime ban is a good one, but I doubt organizations have the balls to get rid of their biggest stars.

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