Did Travis prove a 500 is competive or superior to a 450?

hillbilly wrote:

What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven. A talented rider that can utilize a...

What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven.

A talented rider that can utilize a 500 will turn faster laps on it than a 450 .

500s are lighter,lower CG,way less gyro effect,and will go faster down straights in all but hard pack conditions.

ReturnofJorddo wrote:

A talented rider that can utilize a 125 will turn just as fast laps on it than a 450. Hell, we all saw that video of...

A talented rider that can utilize a 125 will turn just as fast laps on it than a 450. Hell, we all saw that video of the kid on the supermini run open b(?) and beat a 450.

As far as weight goes, a stock CR500 weighs in around 230kbs, and a stock 14 CRF450 weighs around 240, so there is a slight advantage there. If you can make use of the power of a late 500 2t like some people do with a 250 2t, which only a handful of people can, then it will be faster.

Adam43 wrote:

No argument about the delivery characteristics of the bikes, but your blanket statement that "2 strokes are slower than everywhere but sand" doesn't pan out. The...

No argument about the delivery characteristics of the bikes, but your blanket statement that "2 strokes are slower than everywhere but sand" doesn't pan out.

The issues with the 2 strokes non-linear delivery becomes less of a factor when the riders is faster/more talented. Their superior throttle control allows them to maximize the power advantage.

We see this constantly in regions where 250 2S and 4S race heads up, like Canada and Australia. On average, the 2S riders were more competitive than on their 250Fs. You use the example of Benoit racing the 2S on the sandy East...Moncton is one of the hardest packed tracks in the series and he was perhaps even more dominant there. He also stated that had he known how good the 2S would be, he would have raced it the entire series.

The Average Joe will probably always be better on the 250F. But it's pretty telling that these old two strokes, essentially still 2002 bikes, are as good as they are.

StartedTooLate wrote:

So it is just a giant conspiracy? Back when there was no political (factory) pressure to go one way or another, what happened the teams that...

So it is just a giant conspiracy? Back when there was no political (factory) pressure to go one way or another, what happened the teams that were slow to react, and stayed on 2Ts? They got 'smoked'. 4Ts have only gotten better with EFI. The expansion chamber characteristics of 2Ts can not be changed.

Finally, as Guy has noted, there is a Homologation issue. It will never happen and can never happen. The whole dialogue is an idiotic what if circle jerk by 2T fanboys.

The last thing is...James and Malcolm were actually faster than Travis over the last 9s of the track...by quite a bit. Something like .25s. Get out a stopwatch.

YZ125H1 wrote:

Problem with 2 stroke vs 4 stroke is people keep trying to put them in the same class.

queen of spodes wrote:

They already are legal for 99.999999% of american riders. The others are pros who race by a different set of rules.

hillbilly wrote:

What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven. A talented rider that can utilize a...

What happened in the late 80s and 90s to the 500 was political and financial driven,not competitive edge driven.

A talented rider that can utilize a 500 will turn faster laps on it than a 450 .

500s are lighter,lower CG,way less gyro effect,and will go faster down straights in all but hard pack conditions.