The bailout

WORCSRacer
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Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 3:45pm
This whole bail out reminds me of the saying, " We are from the government and we are here to help..."

I don't believe it for a moment.
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BDOG
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10/2/2008 9:45am
How about bank failures, 401K 's wiped out, small businesses closing the doors, job losses etc....


At this point , there is no choice unless you want life as we know it to slowly grind to halt.
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 10:13am Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 10:59am
BDOG wrote:
How about bank failures, 401K 's wiped out, small businesses closing the doors, job losses etc.... At this point , there is no choice unless you...
How about bank failures, 401K 's wiped out, small businesses closing the doors, job losses etc....


At this point , there is no choice unless you want life as we know it to slowly grind to halt.
So what do you think will really happen? Anarchy? Business meltdowns, having to eat dog food? Or do you think that maybe its time for a clean out set to come in and flush the trash. You can't borrow money to pay borrowed money forever unless of course you want to see the dollar drop by 10. All the shit for brains traders that ran oil up to $147 dollars a barrel... what going to happen when the sellers want them to come up with the cash? Should we bail those clowns out too? Fuck em they gambled and lost. They not only gambled and lost with their money they gambled and lost with a lot of stupid lazy americans that don't watch their investments either. What ever happened to buyer beware? With no risk there will be no learning. Will this be painful ABSOLUTELY. Is it needed ABSOLUTELY.



Why aren't we teaching grade school and high school kids how about simple money matters and how markets work? I'm sure they all know about all manner of social issues but they don't know anything about accounting or even balancing a checkbook. Recipe for the disaster we have now. Wall Street has turned into something between a Pyramid scheme and Vegas. We can't buy our way out of this mess and 700 billion is nothing. It's not even close its kinda like buying a guy lunch and figuring that will turn his financial life around.



The last thing I want is the crooks that caused this mess now getting into my wallet any further. This country will survive, with any luck the trash that caused this will not.
Phlapjax
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10/2/2008 10:42am
They do teach kids about finances in HS but that isn't the problem. It's when they get a credit card that it becomes the problem. Studies have shown that once you get the account the rationalization doesn't even come into play because it is a "I'll worry about it later" type feeling. The same thing can be said for everything else that is out there. You go to buy a house, you get pre-approved but don't like anything in your price range so you up the range. You go shopping for all the trimmings inside the house, yep they got credit for that, samething happens. This is a revolving door here people. Until they regulate certain industrys the way they need to be regulated the economy will always be unbalanced. So you might as well get used to the Government stepping in to bail out anyone that is short sighted. This is the first and it won't be the last. Let's just hope the $700 Billion doesn't magically grow after this bail out.
xewbx
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10/2/2008 11:21am
BDOG wrote:
How about bank failures, 401K 's wiped out, small businesses closing the doors, job losses etc.... At this point , there is no choice unless you...
How about bank failures, 401K 's wiped out, small businesses closing the doors, job losses etc....


At this point , there is no choice unless you want life as we know it to slowly grind to halt.
Which will happen regardless of the bail out. Bail out won't fix shit.....it's nothing but a dumping ground for the financial services industry to get rid of their worthless crap derivatives, and leave the tax payer holding the bill. The 700 billion dollars would be much better spent after the market corrects itself......on stimulating the economy, work programs, and fuck....even health care. Instead....it's just being flushed down the toilet.

A free market economy is like musical chairs......it's a zero sum game......for somebody to win, somebody has to lose. When the music stops.......the fucker without the chair goes tits up. This time, the music stops......and all the investment bankers get a chair.......the only one left standing is the Taxpayer.

Really, come on...........the entire infrastructure of the US is crumbling......from bridges to highways, to sewer and water systems. Let the market correct, eliminate the chafe........let the FSI crumble. When the economy slows......even goes into a depression.........dump 500 billion into infrastructure programs.....it'll put people back to work, and the effects of that will trickle upward.........and drive an economic recovery.

Fuck.........Hoover Dam had as much to do with America's post depression recovery as Social Security and the FDIC.

That approach would at least provide a real and lasting value for the taxpayer.........instead of the intangible and largely misplaced claim of a return at some future point on mortgage backed derivatives.

The Shop

jonjon714
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10/2/2008 11:32am
I still like Mike Huckabee's quote...

"The same folks who burned the Thanksgiving turkey want to cook us Christmas Dinner."
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 11:45am
jonjon714 wrote:
I still like Mike Huckabee's quote...

"The same folks who burned the Thanksgiving turkey want to cook us Christmas Dinner."
So you're saying our goose is cooked...
IzziFan
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10/2/2008 12:00pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
So what do you think will really happen? Anarchy? Business meltdowns, having to eat dog food? Or do you think that maybe its time for a...
So what do you think will really happen? Anarchy? Business meltdowns, having to eat dog food? Or do you think that maybe its time for a clean out set to come in and flush the trash. You can't borrow money to pay borrowed money forever unless of course you want to see the dollar drop by 10. All the shit for brains traders that ran oil up to $147 dollars a barrel... what going to happen when the sellers want them to come up with the cash? Should we bail those clowns out too? Fuck em they gambled and lost. They not only gambled and lost with their money they gambled and lost with a lot of stupid lazy americans that don't watch their investments either. What ever happened to buyer beware? With no risk there will be no learning. Will this be painful ABSOLUTELY. Is it needed ABSOLUTELY.



Why aren't we teaching grade school and high school kids how about simple money matters and how markets work? I'm sure they all know about all manner of social issues but they don't know anything about accounting or even balancing a checkbook. Recipe for the disaster we have now. Wall Street has turned into something between a Pyramid scheme and Vegas. We can't buy our way out of this mess and 700 billion is nothing. It's not even close its kinda like buying a guy lunch and figuring that will turn his financial life around.



The last thing I want is the crooks that caused this mess now getting into my wallet any further. This country will survive, with any luck the trash that caused this will not.
+1 at least a few on this site get it.
crowe176
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10/2/2008 12:06pm
Aren't you the guy that thought the MXofN was going to be run in someones backyard?
IzziFan
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10/2/2008 12:09pm
crowe176 wrote:
Aren't you the guy that thought the MXofN was going to be run in someones backyard?
Yeah it was a joke dumbass go eat your crow
crowe176
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10/2/2008 12:13pm
Are you saying YOU meant that as a joke, because it looked like you were the joke?
dougie
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10/2/2008 2:18pm
I keep looking for a lesson to learn from all of this but for the life of me I cant find one.
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 2:46pm
dougie wrote:
I keep looking for a lesson to learn from all of this but for the life of me I cant find one.
How about these lessons...

"there is no free lunch"

"don't spend more than you make"

"save some for a rainy day"

"when you let someone else do your job, pretty soon it's theirs"

"what goes up must come down"
xewbx
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10/2/2008 3:36pm
dougie wrote:
I keep looking for a lesson to learn from all of this but for the life of me I cant find one.
Ask your grandparents or parents (depending on how old you are)..........the ones who lived through the depression.

They've already learned the lesson in this. We just didn't listen to them.
WhKnuckle
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10/2/2008 3:48pm
You guys must really hate Bush then. He's the one who is driving the bus. Congress is just trying to find a way to make this deal doable. And, of course, lots of Congressmen are trying to vote against it while hoping like hell it passes and they don't have to live with the consequences of their votes. People talk about how those who vote no are courageous - they're the worst kinds of cowards. They vote no because they don't have the courage to go back to their constituents and tell them the truth - that they were presented with two choices - do nothing and take a very real risk of a deep recession that could wipe out people's life savings, eliminate their jobs and keep their kids from being able to go to college; or vote yes and take the political hit that goes along with it. Then they have the audacity to get on national TV and say changing mark to market accounting will fix everything. If anyone ever doubted the connection between our economy and the Enron philosophy, that's all they need to hear to know it's the absolute truth.

I hate this thing, but the way it has been presented by the President it's this or nothing. If you don't like the way it's going down, don't elect another president like the one we have now. This is his show, his game, his last hurrah.
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 4:16pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 4:19pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
You guys must really hate Bush then. He's the one who is driving the bus. Congress is just trying to find a way to make this...
You guys must really hate Bush then. He's the one who is driving the bus. Congress is just trying to find a way to make this deal doable. And, of course, lots of Congressmen are trying to vote against it while hoping like hell it passes and they don't have to live with the consequences of their votes. People talk about how those who vote no are courageous - they're the worst kinds of cowards. They vote no because they don't have the courage to go back to their constituents and tell them the truth - that they were presented with two choices - do nothing and take a very real risk of a deep recession that could wipe out people's life savings, eliminate their jobs and keep their kids from being able to go to college; or vote yes and take the political hit that goes along with it. Then they have the audacity to get on national TV and say changing mark to market accounting will fix everything. If anyone ever doubted the connection between our economy and the Enron philosophy, that's all they need to hear to know it's the absolute truth.

I hate this thing, but the way it has been presented by the President it's this or nothing. If you don't like the way it's going down, don't elect another president like the one we have now. This is his show, his game, his last hurrah.
You really have no ability to look past your prejudice. This isn't a Bush deal, its a everyone in Washington deal. Now if you want to play politics... If anyone was running interference for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac check out who is number three on the "donation" list from them?
WhKnuckle
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10/2/2008 4:28pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 4:30pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
You really have no ability to look past your prejudice. This isn't a Bush deal, its a everyone in Washington deal. Now if you want to...
You really have no ability to look past your prejudice. This isn't a Bush deal, its a everyone in Washington deal. Now if you want to play politics... If anyone was running interference for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac check out who is number three on the "donation" list from them?
Freddie and Fannie didn't donate any money to anybody. It's against the law. When I give money to a candidate, it shows up as a Calpine donation because it came from a Calpine employee.
djp2k8
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10/2/2008 4:43pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Freddie and Fannie didn't donate any money to anybody. It's against the law. When I give money to a candidate, it shows up as a Calpine...
Freddie and Fannie didn't donate any money to anybody. It's against the law. When I give money to a candidate, it shows up as a Calpine donation because it came from a Calpine employee.
Huh? Of course they donate money. They have poured millions in lobbying and campaign contributions to get lawmakers on their side. Just like all large corporations and organizations.
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 4:52pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
You really have no ability to look past your prejudice. This isn't a Bush deal, its a everyone in Washington deal. Now if you want to...
You really have no ability to look past your prejudice. This isn't a Bush deal, its a everyone in Washington deal. Now if you want to play politics... If anyone was running interference for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac check out who is number three on the "donation" list from them?
WhKnuckle wrote:
Freddie and Fannie didn't donate any money to anybody. It's against the law. When I give money to a candidate, it shows up as a Calpine...
Freddie and Fannie didn't donate any money to anybody. It's against the law. When I give money to a candidate, it shows up as a Calpine donation because it came from a Calpine employee.
Really, what law is that big boy?

The Messiah gets money from Mortgage Giants
WhKnuckle
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10/2/2008 5:39pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 5:39pm
The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 forbids contributions from corporations, labor organizations, national banks, government contractors or foreign nationals.
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 6:02pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 forbids contributions from corporations, labor organizations, national banks, government contractors or foreign nationals.
But that doesn't stop them from forming PAC's and those PAC's can and do give donations... Not to mention they can hire lobbyists.
KAWboy14
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10/2/2008 6:21pm
all woulda needed to do is take the oil from bidness and make it federal.....and set the price at 1.50........instant fix for the whole worlds problems!
WhKnuckle
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10/2/2008 6:39pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 6:40pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 forbids contributions from corporations, labor organizations, national banks, government contractors or foreign nationals.
WORCSRacer wrote:
But that doesn't stop them from forming PAC's and those PAC's can and do give donations... Not to mention they can hire lobbyists.
But the Pac money has to come from employees. So what's the difference? And as far as lobbyists, Obama does not take contributions from lobbyists, McCain not only takes them, he has lobbyists running his campaign.
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 6:43pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 forbids contributions from corporations, labor organizations, national banks, government contractors or foreign nationals.
WORCSRacer wrote:
But that doesn't stop them from forming PAC's and those PAC's can and do give donations... Not to mention they can hire lobbyists.
WhKnuckle wrote:
But the Pac money has to come from employees. So what's the difference? And as far as lobbyists, Obama does not take contributions from lobbyists, McCain...
But the Pac money has to come from employees. So what's the difference? And as far as lobbyists, Obama does not take contributions from lobbyists, McCain not only takes them, he has lobbyists running his campaign.
psst Dude Obama has the fuckheads that ran Fannie Mae into the ground working for him. Happy with that?
WhKnuckle
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10/2/2008 6:46pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 6:46pm
John McCain's CAMPAIGN MANAGER was a paid consultant to lobby for less regulation for Freddie Mac until LAST MONTH (having apparently lied to McCain about it, or else McCain lied to America about it). You must not read the papers.
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 6:51pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
John McCain's CAMPAIGN MANAGER was a paid consultant to lobby for less regulation for Freddie Mac until LAST MONTH (having apparently lied to McCain about it...
John McCain's CAMPAIGN MANAGER was a paid consultant to lobby for less regulation for Freddie Mac until LAST MONTH (having apparently lied to McCain about it, or else McCain lied to America about it). You must not read the papers.
Just answer the question, Who has the the people responsible for running Fannie Mae into the ground as their top advisors?
WhKnuckle
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10/2/2008 7:01pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
John McCain's CAMPAIGN MANAGER was a paid consultant to lobby for less regulation for Freddie Mac until LAST MONTH (having apparently lied to McCain about it...
John McCain's CAMPAIGN MANAGER was a paid consultant to lobby for less regulation for Freddie Mac until LAST MONTH (having apparently lied to McCain about it, or else McCain lied to America about it). You must not read the papers.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Just answer the question, Who has the the people responsible for running Fannie Mae into the ground as their top advisors?
Who are you referring to? I have no idea. There was a guy - his name escapes me - on Obama's VP search team that was an exec with one one of those groups, but he's hardly the kind of central figure that Rick Davis is in McCain's campaign. Davis is McCain's campaign manager, and he was paid $30,000 per month for 3 years to lobby Congress not to regulate Freddie Mac - then, when he was supposed to have cut ties to Freddie Mac, we find out that Freddie continued to pay Davis' company $15K/month until last month - and not asking for any services at all. I wonder why that is?

Give it up. McCain's entire campaign has been run by lobbyists from day one - many of them working without being paid for a long time when he ran out of money last year. My guess is that they are working for "future considerations'. You know for sure that's the case between Freddie Mac and Rick Davis.
WORCSRacer
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10/2/2008 7:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 7:12pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Who are you referring to? I have no idea. There was a guy - his name escapes me - on Obama's VP search team that was...
Who are you referring to? I have no idea. There was a guy - his name escapes me - on Obama's VP search team that was an exec with one one of those groups, but he's hardly the kind of central figure that Rick Davis is in McCain's campaign. Davis is McCain's campaign manager, and he was paid $30,000 per month for 3 years to lobby Congress not to regulate Freddie Mac - then, when he was supposed to have cut ties to Freddie Mac, we find out that Freddie continued to pay Davis' company $15K/month until last month - and not asking for any services at all. I wonder why that is?

Give it up. McCain's entire campaign has been run by lobbyists from day one - many of them working without being paid for a long time when he ran out of money last year. My guess is that they are working for "future considerations'. You know for sure that's the case between Freddie Mac and Rick Davis.
I'm out, this is exactly the pointless type of conversations that have stopped me from wasting my time here. It is utterly retarded, you are way to fucking set in your way to see any thing approaching the truth. You are so full of self denial that you are even ACTING like you don't know who I am talking about. For God's sake get hold of your intellect.
WhKnuckle
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10/2/2008 7:16pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
I'm out, this is exactly the pointless type of conversations that have stopped me from wasting my time here. It is utterly retarded, you are way...
I'm out, this is exactly the pointless type of conversations that have stopped me from wasting my time here. It is utterly retarded, you are way to fucking set in your way to see any thing approaching the truth. You are so full of self denial that you are even ACTING like you don't know who I am talking about. For God's sake get hold of your intellect.
You started it, I gave you facts. The business arrangement between Davis and Freddie Mac is a simple fact. Davis' position as McCain's campaign manager and his most trusted confidant is a fact. McCain's use of lobbyists to run his campaign - 7 of his top 10 people were lobbyists before his campaign began - is a fact.
10/2/2008 7:30pm
WORCS never met you, but did read your post on this financial fiasco.

Need more people like you in this country when it comes to finances and accountability.

dougie
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10/2/2008 7:41pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
You guys must really hate Bush then. He's the one who is driving the bus. Congress is just trying to find a way to make this...
You guys must really hate Bush then. He's the one who is driving the bus. Congress is just trying to find a way to make this deal doable. And, of course, lots of Congressmen are trying to vote against it while hoping like hell it passes and they don't have to live with the consequences of their votes. People talk about how those who vote no are courageous - they're the worst kinds of cowards. They vote no because they don't have the courage to go back to their constituents and tell them the truth - that they were presented with two choices - do nothing and take a very real risk of a deep recession that could wipe out people's life savings, eliminate their jobs and keep their kids from being able to go to college; or vote yes and take the political hit that goes along with it. Then they have the audacity to get on national TV and say changing mark to market accounting will fix everything. If anyone ever doubted the connection between our economy and the Enron philosophy, that's all they need to hear to know it's the absolute truth.

I hate this thing, but the way it has been presented by the President it's this or nothing. If you don't like the way it's going down, don't elect another president like the one we have now. This is his show, his game, his last hurrah.
So the ones voting no are not really doing what their constituants want? Im still not buying its as bad as its made out to be. I keep getting that hinky feeling, you know, the one where you just know something aint right.

Ive heard about wiping out peoples savings. Isnt the average American savings rate something like -.2%?

Ive heard that people wont be able to borrow for their childerns college tuition. What ever happened to college funds started when a child was, well a child? And what ever happened to working your way thru college? Maybe this will force colleges to drop their tuition rates which have skyrocketed in recent years.

Ive heard that people wont be able to borrow money to buy new cars. How many people really I mean REALLY need a new car? And besides with Car/Truck sells so far off many people will be able to pay cash Smile

If indeed this thing is real then the ones making most of the noise are the ones with the most to lose. Maybe thats why I dont give a shit Wink Im already at the lower end of the food chain. Tell ya what....."I'll leave the light on for ya"

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