2001 Factory Honda RC250M

Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 12:20am
I waited a while to go online with this project but now I have collected all the major parts to start building, I would like to share the process of building a 1992-2001 Factory Honda CR250 engine with you guys. It will be very detailed since I have learned a lot about the factory engines last few months.

Prior to this project I have restored a 1980 Honda CR125R Elsinore to showroom state. I worked more than a year on this bike and I liked this bike very much but when I had the opportunity to sell it, it kind of cleared the road for a new project, and so the bike was sold and shipped to a MX museum in Sweden.



Aspired by the BBR Honda CR60R factory replica. I bought a 1984 Honda CR60R to do the same trick, but after a few months I decided I would do a frame up showroom state restoration on this one too, keeping it original. This project is halfway and you can follow it on my website.



The idea of building a Factory Honda CR250 engine originated when I finished my CR60R engine. I always start on the engine when restoring and when I finished the CR60R engine I welded a simple engine stand to display it on my workbench until the chassis is finished. I liked the look of a restored engine on my workbench and when I came across a HRC sandcast magnesium right side engine case for the 92-01 CR250 engine I bought it. Just like Newmann, building a bike around one works part Tongue .



When I received the right side engine case I also found out it came with the original HRC powervalve governor, lucky me. The governor is hard to find and the original governor won't fit in the casing.



I located a '94 HRC Power-Up kit manual and armed with a lot of HRC part numbers my search for factory parts began. Almost every part comes from a different source and I have met some amazing and inspiring people along the way. Most parts are specifically for the 1996 engine, others fit all years so I am not trying to replicate an engine of a certain year or rider. From here on I will just update with the parts that I have tracked down and bought, I already have a NOS right side crankcase and a NOS left side crankcase is coming my way so assemble shouldn't take that long.

Here is a used waterpump cover and NOS powervalve cover which I blasted with glassbeads, I'm thinking of anodizing them a grey color but don't know how dark yet.



This cylinderhead is one of the characteristic 1996 parts, as it has the sparkplug in an angle. It is a new HRC part, the dome is polished from the factory. You can recognize a HRC cylinderhead by the milling around the sparkplug thread.





One of the internals is the HRC gearbox, consisting of the mainshaft and various gears, OEM gears where used to complete the gearbox.



To assembly the engine I need gaskets, and since the quality of OEM Honda gaskets is second to none, there was no doubt I was going to use original gaskets.

Not all of the gaskets are “works” HRC gaskets, in fact, a lot of them are just stock gaskets like you’ll find in any 92-01 Honda CR250 engine. HRC gaskets are fitted for the iginition cover, clutchcover, head, cylinder and reed valve. The ignition cover and clutch cover use paper gaskets instead of rubber gaskets like the stock engine does. I assume that is because the magnesium covers are so fragile that grooves for o-ring gaskets would only be a higher risk. The cylinder base gasket is steel like the head gasket and were offered in different thicknesses.



The cylinder I will be using comes off Stefan Everts' 1997 RWJ Honda. It has a few marks in it and will need replating. There is some tuning going on on the intake side, where two extra boost ports where made. It's not done very neatly, I assume this was a testing cylinder, maybe I will finish it myself before it gets replated.





The HRC piston I have is for the 92-93 HRC kit, but it's basically the same as the 94-96 piston. A third variation is the 97-01 piston which has windows on both side above the pistonpin. This would be the piston of choice since I have a 97 cylinder but until I find that piston this one will do the job.



The HRC piston features a single pistonring in stead of two, and is also less thicker than a stock pistonring.



The pistonpin is lighter and stronger than the OEM pistonpin and as far as I can see there was more effort put in the total finish of the pistonpin compared to stock.



To complete the cylinder I had to find the HRC powervalve parts that belong in it. Stock valves will do the job but as the perfectionist I am HRC valves had to be found. I found a used set of 1998 valves to fit my 1997 cylinder, they do have to be cleaned before installment. When using HRC valves, some of the surrounding parts should be replaced with HRC parts too, like the screw to adjust the roller. The OEM powervalve system only uses one bearing, on the right side, and a bush on the left side. When using the HRC valves, the bush on the left side should be replaced by a bearing, which I found too.



The reed valve and intake manifold are from Stefan Everts too and appear to be stock items having some area’s machined for a better flow. The reed petals are carbon HRC items.



Most of the parts where offered by Honda and you could order them (for certain prices) at your local Honda shop, but there are some parts that where not available to public like this steel shiftlever. Provided to factory riders in various lengths, bends and widths to suit their needs. It was not easy to find but I was very lucky that a collector had one spare and was prepared to sell it to me. It's from a late 80's RC500 but fits shaft on the CR250 engine.



The 1996 ignition I found is in excellent shape and features the heavier flywheel, which was an option aside from the original HRC flywheel. The mass increased flywheel gives the motor more torque and better acceleration when racing heavy sand tracks.



The HRC ignition should only be used with the matching HRC CDI box so I was lucky to find this one too, the Denso partnumber is 071000-0830 NHA.



The HRC CDI box features a socket where you can plug in a coupler. Two different couplers where available and I have them both NOS. The grey coupler which was included with the CDI and provided standard power and the blue coupler which was an option to down-tune the power for muddy or slippery conditions, making the engine less aggressive.



I may end up putting this engine in a bike some day but for now I am building the engine only. Stay tuned for updates, there are a few more parts on their way!

Corné - The Netherlands
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1/15/2014 11:32am
Great stuff. I can only hope we get to see it completed, then get to see a steel-framed factory bike built around it one day.
jtracing6
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1/15/2014 12:10pm
Keep this thread going, it is very interesting.
1/15/2014 12:16pm
@Goodluckmonkey: Thank you for the kind words, it will be completed!!!

@jtracing6: I will try Keith, just like my website!
jtracing6
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1/15/2014 12:28pm
I've seen your website and your parts on FB, I think.

The Shop

newmann
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1/15/2014 5:43pm
Just one part. That's all it takes! Don't stop now buddy, point of no return!

I've gotten bit by the AR15 bug lately and it's just as bad as the old dirt bikes. Lots of trick and unique vintage parts out there for them too. Build an entire gun around one single part.Smile
718
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1/15/2014 8:09pm
I am set up for KL services on cast parts. It is similar to anodizing but has a better uniform finish.

Here is a PV cover done in KL. I an also prep it for texture like mag parts.



Piston Slap
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1/16/2014 8:18am Edited Date/Time 1/16/2014 8:21am
WOW!!!! Looks great! I'm interested in your build and the steps you take acquiring parts.....wondering if most of your parts are Euro sourced or from US...evidently alot from Euro since you have access to Everts old parts? Any good stories behind those? Just wondering......

Awesome project for the New Year!

Peace
PS
Presley155
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1/16/2014 10:14am
This thread is awesome!
1/16/2014 11:00am
Very cool. Can't wait to see it done. Gonna look great
1/16/2014 11:37am
@Piston Slap: The cylinder/reed/intake manifold from Stefen Everts was bought at MasterCross, a company of Italian Claudio Venezian, a very nice person who has a lot of works parts from almost any MX manufacturer. He didn't know much about the cylinder, it was bought out of a lot of Stefan Everts parts that still floats around in Europe... Most of the other parts are from the German Sarholz racing team and other collectors. The shifter comes from the US and the mag right side casing from Canada, so most of it is from Europe.

@Presley155: The engine is more awesome!

@Honda lover 707: Thank you, can't wait either!

If any of you guys are in some way connected to Team Honda or former mechanics and you want to share this with me that would be very great. I want to know everything about the 92-01 factory engines and I still need some crucial parts like the magnesium ignition cover and the HRC exhaust pipe. I have some other parts on my wanted list, like the Ti kickstart knuckle, works crank and magnesium carburetor but those are parts that won't pop up on ebay, I have to be patient and keep hoping some day I will be offered to buy those parts.

Here is the replica ignition cover I have now, I hope I can replace it some day with an original magnesium one.



I also received a full Ti bolt kit for the engine from Competition Fasteners, I am still waiting on the kickstart bolt, I ordered that one from ebay.

seanmx57
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1/17/2014 5:08pm
Very nice work and inspiring. I'm after an ignition cover like that for my 2000 motor I'm building up to my racing standards. Do you know where they can be had?
suzook241
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1/18/2014 4:24am
718 wrote:
I am set up for KL services on cast parts. It is similar to anodizing but has a better uniform finish. Here is a PV cover...
I am set up for KL services on cast parts. It is similar to anodizing but has a better uniform finish.

Here is a PV cover done in KL. I an also prep it for texture like mag parts.



Interested in some work done by you to 718. Please PM me when you can.

Looking forward to seeing this engine build
718
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1/18/2014 6:35pm
Suzook241, It's not letting me send you a PM.

Email me if you like.
redrider611@gmail.com

Thanks.



Keep pics coming. Cool build you have going.
barkhard696
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1/18/2014 8:01pm Edited Date/Time 2/23/2016 10:25pm
deleted
718
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1/19/2014 12:28am
deleted
If building off of a stock motor (96-01) the following is what I recommend.

Carb mods
Boyesen rad valve (ported to match carb)
Port cylinder (mid-top)
Case match to cylinder
Tumble and polish tranny
Deck head .015 (recommend C12 straight)
Deck cylinder .005 ( (recommend C12 straight))
Custom built crank (custom rod "not always available") Otherwise use stock or hotrods crank (have balanced)
Full Hinson clutch
Vertex piston (Lift intake skirt .008-.010)
OEM gaskets
OEM seals

With this build / set up I would run 13 / 50 on gearing.

I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY MOTORS THAT ANYONE ATTEMPTS TO BUILD TO THESE SPECS.
I AM SIMPLY ANSWERING A QUESTION THAT ANOTHER MEMBER ASKED ABOUT.
1/25/2014 7:40am Edited Date/Time 12/18/2016 11:59am
Got a NOS left crankcase in the mail today, so it was time to preassemble the (empty) engine to see how it looks and check if I ordered all the required bolts. I still need to find the works crank before I can put it together...







I will grind down all the casting markings on the nos crankcases and have them aqua blasted to get a real nice and smooth surface. Here is a picture of my CR60R carburetor after aqua blasting:

718
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1/25/2014 7:52am
Just remember that the covers had a rough texture on the works bikes. Don't get it too smooth.
I can always add texture with DX if needed.
1/25/2014 11:40am
@DJFMX: I don't know much about how it's done, it's a patended technique from Holland.

@718: I wont aqua blast the magnesium covers, only the crankcases!
jtracing6
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1/25/2014 11:55am
Aqua blasting is simple really. It is very high pressure water with fine glass beads. It is great for cleaning aluminium and giving a natural like new finish. Things like crankcases, cal piers, cylinders and heads look new when cleaned this way. Also it doesn't affect the insides i.e. bearing surfaces and nicasil bores. It is also called vapour blasting.
3/6/2014 1:07pm
Time for an update. I received some more interesting HRC parts and apart from the works crank and pipe I have all the required parts.

I also found an original HRC case saver. It is made out of steel in stead of aluminium (like stock!). The strength of the steel was probably needed.



I found another works shiftlever too, this one is brand new and has a different bent. It is a bit straighter and I like that look so I think I will end up using this one.



You can see the difference between the two shifters on this photo:



Here is a 1994 HRC ignition I found along the way, although I am going to use the 1996 ignition I couldn't pass up and so bought it too, you never have enough works parts Smile



The stator with standard HRC flywheel, I have a mass increased flywheel for this ignition too.


One of the most exciting parts to find was this original magnesium Honda Racing ignition cover! I already had an aluminium replica made which is a good substitute but nothing beats the original. I have started prepping the magnesium covers by blasting them with glass beads to remove the DOW coating and oxidation around the waterpump area. It's amazing how light the cast magnesium parts are.



I blasted the magnesium ignition cover and clutch cover/right side engine casing with glass beads in order to remove the original worn off DOW coating and corrosion in the waterpump area. Underneath the corrosion in the waterpump area was a little bit of erosion, I have spoken to a Honda R&D engineer who is also in charge of Honda's own restorations on the works bikes from the Honda Collection Hall and he said they unfortunately couldn't do the original grey coating anymore so I leave them bare for now. The covers should become a little darker from themselves.



I already had a 92-93 HRC piston which I bought a few months ago but since I have a 97 cylinder I was determined to find a 97 piston. I now have a complete 97-01 piston too, which features inlet windows and is 8 grams lighter than it's predecessor.



HRC did not only provide parts for the engine, in order to get it jetted properly there was a variety of valves with different cutaways and needles available too. Based on the scheme in the HRC manual the valve with cutaway 6.0  and a R1369JS needle will suit the Dutch weather conditions best so that's what's going to be in the carburetor.



HRC states in it's 92-93 set-up manual that because of the power increase the clutch capacity has to be increased too. HRC therefore offered a set of seven treated aluminium clutch plates and a set of three heavier springs. I found those parts still available at Mastercross in Italy.



That's it for now, I have received a ton of NOS engine internals and will begin assembling the gearbox and waterpump soon. Story continues...
1
Banana_oil
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3/6/2014 9:40pm
Very cool build and interesting to learn what was in those engines. Have you compared the port timing with a stock cylinder?
tireguy111
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3/10/2014 9:25am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2014 9:34am
Banana_oil wrote:
Very cool build and interesting to learn what was in those engines. Have you compared the port timing with a stock cylinder?
I received a folder from a factory Honda race mechanic that contains a whole bunch of gaskets...like different thickness base gaskets and such.........send me a pm if you are interested..............
3/10/2014 1:23pm
Banana_oil wrote:
Very cool build and interesting to learn what was in those engines. Have you compared the port timing with a stock cylinder?
I haven't compared the cylinders yet, will do that in a short time.
mxBryan
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3/19/2014 1:33pm Edited Date/Time 3/19/2014 1:35pm
How is your project doing ? any updates..?
I saw on ebay a Stefan Everts HRC cylinder up for auction, which i think is yours ??
3/20/2014 3:01am Edited Date/Time 3/20/2014 3:01am
Hi mxBryan, has been quiet for a while indeed. I have the Everts barrel for sale on ebay, I'm selling it because someone else may need it more if they want to build a 97-01 Honda, I am thinking about sticking to 1996 since I already have the NOS cylinderhead and complete ignition.

I have had the time to do some little stuff on the engine. I bought a very nice used carb and disassembled it to send off for vapour blasting. The last two NOS gears finally arrived from Honda last week so I could assemble the gearbox. I am not sure if I am getting the gearbox treated as no one is offering this service in Holland.



After I blasted the magnesium covers with glass beads I cleaned them and left them untouched for a while which resulted in a slightly darker color. I think I leave it this way for a while, if I end up not liking it or if it corrodes again I will further investigate coating possibilities. For now I have assembled the right crankcase cover and it looks nice!





There is some more exciting news to come but that will take a little while! If someone is interested in the Everts Cylinder send me a private message and I am sure we can work out a deal without the ebay auction.
1
3/29/2014 3:15pm
Small update. The factory 250's in the nineties didn't run magnesium carbs like they did in the 80's so I bought a decent Stock Keihin PJ 38mm and cleaned the carb. After cleaning I had it vapour blasted which came out amazing and assembled it with all new internals including a HRC 6.0 slide and HRC needle. I am busy working on the cases to grind/sand down all the casting marks to have them vapour blasted too.

Banana_oil
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3/29/2014 11:48pm
interesting that they used the PJ as many people say they are crap and that the PWK is the way to go. Do you have any comment on that?
3/31/2014 2:58am
PWK is indeed said to be better but the PJ is the carburetor Honda used on their 92-96 factory bikes, besides I already had the slide and needle so it was an easy choice. When I ever decide to put this motor in a frame I will try both this PJ carb as well as an '00 PWK.

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