Bike Ticket

Titan1
Posts
9462
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/30/2013 10:10am Edited Date/Time 10/30/2013 10:28am
So if i am hearing from alot of you correctly, and for once i'll include myself with the likes of RC,RV,CR,DM,RD?!, if i am impeding your...
So if i am hearing from alot of you correctly, and for once i'll include myself with the likes of RC,RV,CR,DM,RD?!, if i am impeding your high velocity travel you are fine with me or the members of my super group being killed or serious injured just so you don't have to be inconvenienced?
Who said anything even remotely similar to that? That is a weak straw man argument...

Nobody is saying they are fine if you get seriously injured or killed....in fact, my argument is that you shouldn't be allowed on roads without bike lanes/shoulders (and ticketed if you don't stay in-not on or next to the white line-in bike lane or on the shoulder) so that you DON'T get seriously injured or killed. Or seriously injure drivers as they are forced to go into the other lane to go around you.

But, since bikes are allowed on roads without bike lanes...bikers should be considerate human beings and ride single file, as far off the road as possible, so as not to impede traffic. That is just the respectful, decent and considerate thing to do.
Shiftfaced
Posts
859
Joined
12/15/2008
Location
Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
10/30/2013 10:12am
Titan1 sez: "That is just the respectful, decent and considerate thing to do."


+1
motoracer633
Posts
427
Joined
11/14/2011
Location
North Charleston, SC, USA
10/30/2013 10:19am
I took that one a few yards past what the conversation was. kinda had to do with a recent conversation with others here at home.
zippy895
Posts
5495
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/30/2013 10:28am
Titan1 wrote:
Who said anything even remotely similar to that? That is a weak straw man argument... Nobody is saying they are fine if you get seriously injured...
Who said anything even remotely similar to that? That is a weak straw man argument...

Nobody is saying they are fine if you get seriously injured or killed....in fact, my argument is that you shouldn't be allowed on roads without bike lanes/shoulders (and ticketed if you don't stay in-not on or next to the white line-in bike lane or on the shoulder) so that you DON'T get seriously injured or killed. Or seriously injure drivers as they are forced to go into the other lane to go around you.

But, since bikes are allowed on roads without bike lanes...bikers should be considerate human beings and ride single file, as far off the road as possible, so as not to impede traffic. That is just the respectful, decent and considerate thing to do.
buy a road bike,use it for ,say 3 months to go places,etc.
then come back on this board and tell us your opinion.see the unseen things a motorist cannot.
cyclist ,at least 95 percent of them are motorist also.we see it from both sides.
example...try riding up to 30mph in anaerobic state and try to stay straight,very close to edge ,at same time bike gets twitchy deverting away from shit in the road and prick motorists that never read the drivers test booklet that mentions cyclist share the roadways...

The Shop

anniebertzak
Posts
25
Joined
1/31/2013
Location
Southern California, CA, USA
10/30/2013 10:42am
Good stuff! That's exactly what I was talking about and wasn't joking when I made the one legged bicyclist comment. I find it hard to believe...
Good stuff! That's exactly what I was talking about and wasn't joking when I made the one legged bicyclist comment. I find it hard to believe there is a law that says you have to put two feet down when you come to a stop on a bicycle (or motorcycle). If there is such a law it's just another example of there being waaaaaaaawy too many laws.
I found it hard to believe too… the cop was just being a dick TBH. Could I have fought it? Yes, but whats my time worth? It's more then $45 an hour. I figured if I was going to pay the fine, might as well make their lives a bit difficult. The ticket didn't go on my record and I got great pleasure counting it out. As I counted the teller asked who issued the ticket and I pointed to the citation and showed her the name of the officer. She said she will have a talk with him because this is more hassle then whats it's worth.
Titan1
Posts
9462
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/30/2013 10:51am
Titan1 wrote:
Who said anything even remotely similar to that? That is a weak straw man argument... Nobody is saying they are fine if you get seriously injured...
Who said anything even remotely similar to that? That is a weak straw man argument...

Nobody is saying they are fine if you get seriously injured or killed....in fact, my argument is that you shouldn't be allowed on roads without bike lanes/shoulders (and ticketed if you don't stay in-not on or next to the white line-in bike lane or on the shoulder) so that you DON'T get seriously injured or killed. Or seriously injure drivers as they are forced to go into the other lane to go around you.

But, since bikes are allowed on roads without bike lanes...bikers should be considerate human beings and ride single file, as far off the road as possible, so as not to impede traffic. That is just the respectful, decent and considerate thing to do.
zippy895 wrote:
buy a road bike,use it for ,say 3 months to go places,etc. then come back on this board and tell us your opinion.see the unseen things...
buy a road bike,use it for ,say 3 months to go places,etc.
then come back on this board and tell us your opinion.see the unseen things a motorist cannot.
cyclist ,at least 95 percent of them are motorist also.we see it from both sides.
example...try riding up to 30mph in anaerobic state and try to stay straight,very close to edge ,at same time bike gets twitchy deverting away from shit in the road and prick motorists that never read the drivers test booklet that mentions cyclist share the roadways...
I didn't own a car for 2 years at one point in my life...my only transportation was a bike. It wasn't a "hobby" to me, it was the only way I could "go places".

So I'll see your 3 months...and raise you 24 months. lol

I still stand behind my position....
zippy895
Posts
5495
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/30/2013 11:13am
I had one guy basically brush me w/his side mirror.caught up to him at the light, I yelled "3 fts the law" he said use the sidewalk....he could care less if I was left for dead.
another was a fellow familyman biker got killed while in bike lane divided by speed bumps....man in van said said oh, I wasn't paying attention....
its funny how when u do everything right,the biker is still the issue.
how many times does it take before ones dead because a driver in a car feels invinsable
by the way, unless a driver hits and runs,they usually don't get in trouble after killing a biker,unless they r drunk.
even the driver that killed a biker on top of a bridge that had a shoulder almost if not as wide as a drive lane....pinned against the bridge wall!oh,i wasn't paying attention...holly fuck!
so,i guess I do have an issue w/ motorist that never read the handbook and or feel a biker is their go to vent object..
funny how they give you room when u look back(eye to eye) prior to them passing u.lol..not paying attention,my ass.
jtomasik
Posts
12895
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Golden, CO, USA
10/30/2013 11:19am Edited Date/Time 10/30/2013 11:25am
When I ride on the road, I stay as far right in the bike lane as possible. I want the cars as far away from me as I can make them. Not sure why the heck some bikers have no issue hanging out over the lane's stripe into traffic. Just seems arrogant and against my own self-preservation. Maybe they don't understand that traffic laws can be broken, but F=m*a can't.
GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
10/30/2013 11:23am
Titan1 wrote:
I didn't own a car for 2 years at one point in my life...my only transportation was a bike. It wasn't a "hobby" to me, it...
I didn't own a car for 2 years at one point in my life...my only transportation was a bike. It wasn't a "hobby" to me, it was the only way I could "go places".

So I'll see your 3 months...and raise you 24 months. lol

I still stand behind my position....
Your position is that you're impatient, and unwilling to share the road. Smile

Impatience is the biggest problem I see with drivers when I'm road riding. On PCH there are many placed where there are lanes that merge in from the side, or turning lanes open to the side. That means I end up crossing back and forth between them, or have to work with traffic. There are a lot of really impatient drivers out there. Is it an inconvenience to have to slow momentarily for a cyclist? Sure. Do they have a brake pedal and a gas pedal, and a steering wheel that turns both left and right? Yep. But it sort of amazes me that they get so bent about what's really a minor inconvenience.
Titan1
Posts
9462
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/30/2013 11:29am Edited Date/Time 10/30/2013 2:07pm
zippy895 wrote:
I had one guy basically brush me w/his side mirror.caught up to him at the light, I yelled "3 fts the law" he said use the...
I had one guy basically brush me w/his side mirror.caught up to him at the light, I yelled "3 fts the law" he said use the sidewalk....he could care less if I was left for dead.
another was a fellow familyman biker got killed while in bike lane divided by speed bumps....man in van said said oh, I wasn't paying attention....
its funny how when u do everything right,the biker is still the issue.
how many times does it take before ones dead because a driver in a car feels invinsable
by the way, unless a driver hits and runs,they usually don't get in trouble after killing a biker,unless they r drunk.
even the driver that killed a biker on top of a bridge that had a shoulder almost if not as wide as a drive lane....pinned against the bridge wall!oh,i wasn't paying attention...holly fuck!
so,i guess I do have an issue w/ motorist that never read the handbook and or feel a biker is their go to vent object..
funny how they give you room when u look back(eye to eye) prior to them passing u.lol..not paying attention,my ass.
It sounds like the first guy, in his ignorance, was trying to teach you a lesson...and he's an idiot. Was there a bike lane or shoulder? How far from the white line were you riding? Was there oncoming traffic? If so, was there room for him to give you three feet? (Meaning, if he gave you three feet would he have been in the other lane. If so, I get why you didn't get three feet.)

The guy that killed the biker is an idiot.

You have an issue with motorists that don't read the handbook...I have an issue with cyclists that are inconsiderate and entitled jerks (those that ride right on the white line, two up-or more-and expect the bigger, heavier cars to go around them). Are we even yet?
Titan1
Posts
9462
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/30/2013 11:35am
Titan1 wrote:
I didn't own a car for 2 years at one point in my life...my only transportation was a bike. It wasn't a "hobby" to me, it...
I didn't own a car for 2 years at one point in my life...my only transportation was a bike. It wasn't a "hobby" to me, it was the only way I could "go places".

So I'll see your 3 months...and raise you 24 months. lol

I still stand behind my position....
GuyB wrote:
Your position is that you're impatient, and unwilling to share the road. :) Impatience is the biggest problem I see with drivers when I'm road riding...
Your position is that you're impatient, and unwilling to share the road. Smile

Impatience is the biggest problem I see with drivers when I'm road riding. On PCH there are many placed where there are lanes that merge in from the side, or turning lanes open to the side. That means I end up crossing back and forth between them, or have to work with traffic. There are a lot of really impatient drivers out there. Is it an inconvenience to have to slow momentarily for a cyclist? Sure. Do they have a brake pedal and a gas pedal, and a steering wheel that turns both left and right? Yep. But it sort of amazes me that they get so bent about what's really a minor inconvenience.
No, my position is that 1) I'll never do anything to intentionally injure/kill a cyclist, ever. and 2) That cyclists need to ride as far to the right as possible, and only ride single file when in groups. Riding right on the white line, while going 5-45 mph under the speed limit is an unnecessary road hazard. And riding two up down narrow roads with no shoulder/bike lane, while expecting the cars to go around you, is just plain inconsiderate.

I have no issue "slowing momentarily"...but when I have to slow for several minutes so two dudes can ride side by side down a road with no bike lane, because I can't go around them for oncoming traffic...that's an issue. I won't run them off the road, or brush them with my mirror...but its an issue.
zippy895
Posts
5495
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/30/2013 11:38am
ive come to the conclusion,non biker motorist, see a weak object on "their" roadway and must make it be known .
that's what yet another car owner told me while on my bike...
even had a mid age guy in convertible brake ck. an organized group ride! fucked up drivers think all the metal they are in makes them almighty.
bad apples on both sides at times,but you get it.
pot holes...don't even get me started on potholes.lol
jtomasik
Posts
12895
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Golden, CO, USA
10/30/2013 11:49am
zippy895 wrote:
ive come to the conclusion,non biker motorist, see a weak object on "their" roadway and must make it be known . that's what yet another car...
ive come to the conclusion,non biker motorist, see a weak object on "their" roadway and must make it be known .
that's what yet another car owner told me while on my bike...
even had a mid age guy in convertible brake ck. an organized group ride! fucked up drivers think all the metal they are in makes them almighty.
bad apples on both sides at times,but you get it.
pot holes...don't even get me started on potholes.lol
So, do you see any issue with riding single file in designated bike lanes, and NOT riding two or more abreast in those lanes?
zippy895
Posts
5495
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/30/2013 12:09pm
when in large group,2 abreast is needed.
motorist would not love 40 rider 1 lane of bikes.
keep in mind,whoever pulls a group,or someone who has a problem in pace line...will eventualy pull into a"2nd lane" .
here's another problem,if all stuck 100percent in bike lane,passing motorist gives you minimum room while passing..not all motorists,but ....a cyclist still has that uncomfortable feeling of a car coming close to them at all times in those situations. when stuck out a bit from bike lane,it actually gives the cyclist a bit of "look,here I am ,you can see me not 100percent in the narrow bike lane,proceed w/caution.
if its 3 or more abreast,i feel it should be patrolled by pace care/ms event/charity ride deals for example.but for regular shop group rides? no. unless the roads r desolate.
*not all bike lanes are the same. some are cleanare not...road gutters ....some are huge.and most of the time,none.
Shiftfaced
Posts
859
Joined
12/15/2008
Location
Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
10/30/2013 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 10/30/2013 12:10pm
Preference has been given to the motorcar.

You get to sit side-by-side with your passengers. Why can't the cyclists have the same ability to enjoy the company?

How about you and your passengers sit in a single file line? Fair? Most cars are single occupant only anyways......
jtomasik
Posts
12895
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Golden, CO, USA
10/30/2013 12:12pm Edited Date/Time 10/30/2013 12:12pm
Shiftfaced wrote:
Preference has been given to the motorcar. You get to sit side-by-side with your passengers. Why can't the cyclists have the same ability to enjoy the...
Preference has been given to the motorcar.

You get to sit side-by-side with your passengers. Why can't the cyclists have the same ability to enjoy the company?

How about you and your passengers sit in a single file line? Fair? Most cars are single occupant only anyways......
So, are you guys saying riding out of the bike lane and into traffic is ok so that you can ride two abreast?
Shiftfaced
Posts
859
Joined
12/15/2008
Location
Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
10/30/2013 12:46pm
No.

Take the time to read through the discussion, and you can clearly see that I advocate riding as far to the right as possible, and doing everything you can NOT to hinder motorists.

BUT, why not equal treatment? Most road lanes are 12'. Most cars are 8' wide. So, in a typical road section, 24' are dedicated to motor travel (of which they only need 16"), and bicyclists can HOPE for a 3' lane. How about leveling the playing field?
jtomasik
Posts
12895
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Golden, CO, USA
10/30/2013 12:55pm
Take the time to read through the discussion? Serious? After reading through these comments, I'm lucky to be this considerate. To cut it short:

If you stay in your lane, then motorists have zero right to intrude on your space illegal, aggressively, or otherwise, and the ones that do should be prosecuted accordingly. The opposite is true, too (if bikes illegally enter the car lanes). It should be shared according to the letter of the law. That goes for both, and I bet that anyone here with a logical argument in them will agree....so you don't need 3 pages of arguing over nothing.
Shiftfaced
Posts
859
Joined
12/15/2008
Location
Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
10/30/2013 1:00pm
The intar-webs is serious business.

Arguing is what it was made for.

Smile
zippy895
Posts
5495
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/30/2013 1:15pm
all a true road bike cyclist wants to do is ride his fucking bike fast,slow,in a group ,solo without getting hit by a motorist.but when you hear or see just one story I mentioned.it becomes a bit of a defense ride .give us a lane as wide as yours,and don't use it as your trash can and put speed bumps or median between and we don't have to have a 3plus page rant.
Titan1
Posts
9462
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/30/2013 2:05pm
zippy895 wrote:
all a true road bike cyclist wants to do is ride his fucking bike fast,slow,in a group ,solo without getting hit by a motorist.but when you...
all a true road bike cyclist wants to do is ride his fucking bike fast,slow,in a group ,solo without getting hit by a motorist.but when you hear or see just one story I mentioned.it becomes a bit of a defense ride .give us a lane as wide as yours,and don't use it as your trash can and put speed bumps or median between and we don't have to have a 3plus page rant.
And all motorists want to do is get where they're going without cyclists putting their lives in danger by blocking half the lane, while riding 40 mph under the speed limit, and forcing them to go into oncoming traffic to go around them (especially when there is a perfectly good shoulder or bike lane they can use that will keep them well out of the traffic lane).

Cyclists shouldn't be allowed in the traffic lane for the same reason 85 beginners aren't allow on the moto track with big bike pros....the speed disparity between the two is just go great to be acceptable (the same should be true of cyclists in traffic lanes).
GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
10/30/2013 4:28pm
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable?

jtomasik
Posts
12895
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Golden, CO, USA
10/30/2013 5:21pm
GuyB wrote:
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/30/35303/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable?

Holy shit. Are you serious? That's the size of an airport runway to a bicycle. If an MX rider can't navigate that without having to go into traffic, give your dirt bike away to someone worthy of riding it, donate your road-bike to Goodwill, and ride the bus. Oh, buy some Tampons, while you're at it. Sheesh.
GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
10/30/2013 5:29pm
GuyB wrote:
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/30/35303/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable?

jtomasik wrote:
Holy shit. Are you serious? That's the size of an airport runway to a bicycle. If an MX rider can't navigate that without having to go...
Holy shit. Are you serious? That's the size of an airport runway to a bicycle. If an MX rider can't navigate that without having to go into traffic, give your dirt bike away to someone worthy of riding it, donate your road-bike to Goodwill, and ride the bus. Oh, buy some Tampons, while you're at it. Sheesh.
I don't have any trouble navigating this. It was a quiz for people who don't ride skinny tires. They look at it as one six-foot wide lane, assuming that it's all usable. I see it as two lanes, with one of them preferable, and the other as an emergency lane. Going back and forth across that junction in the middle? That's a sketchy proposition.

I ride several days a week around lunchtime. Anyone who wants to stop by and critique my riding style can go for it.
Homey55
Posts
1275
Joined
2/18/2010
Location
collinsville, OK, USA
10/31/2013 1:01pm
GuyB wrote:
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/30/35303/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable?

Easy, bunny hop up the curb, across the grass and onto the sidewalk! No reason to get slammed by a housewife on her diamond encrusted iPhone driving her Escalade...Seriously though, I have hardly ever ridden on the street on my bike and always take the sidewalk when it's available and I have never been stopped for doing that. It's much better to be safe than sorry.
Shiftfaced
Posts
859
Joined
12/15/2008
Location
Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
10/31/2013 1:12pm
I ride in the concrete gutter apron. The only times I have problems is when there is trash/debris in there, or the gutter grates run parallel to the road, instead of perpendicular.

As crazy as it sounds, most people who "ride the white line" do so because that is the smoothest and fastest line out there. The paint fills up some of the divots of the pavement, and it is fast and smooth. Just the wrong place to be, IMO.
Titan1
Posts
9462
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/31/2013 2:35pm
GuyB wrote:
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/30/35303/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable?

I'd say the preferred line would be in the gutter. You should be as far off the road as possible...
GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
10/31/2013 2:41pm
GuyB wrote:
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/30/35303/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable?

Titan1 wrote:
I'd say the preferred line would be in the gutter. You should be as far off the road as possible...
With you behind the wheel, and your attitude about cyclists, I agree completely.
Titan1
Posts
9462
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/31/2013 2:48pm
GuyB wrote:
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/30/35303/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
From today's lunch ride. How much of this bike lane is usable?

Titan1 wrote:
I'd say the preferred line would be in the gutter. You should be as far off the road as possible...
GuyB wrote:
With you behind the wheel, and your attitude about cyclists, I agree completely.
LOL...have you missed the multiple times in this thread where I said that I would never intentionally hurt a cyclist, and do everything I can to give them room?
11/2/2013 10:06am
So this morning, out walking, I step off the sidewalk to cross the street (4 way stop intersection), about 15 cyclists blow the stop sign, make a right turn and almost bowl me down. Just another one of those "it's our right to ride on the road and do whatever we want attitude". I guess i'll give them a pass as they were probably distracted discussing with each other how the car drivers almost ran them down earlier.
TM

Post a reply to: Bike Ticket

The Latest