Accidents in a new car-advice

Edited Date/Time 8/17/2013 6:01pm
Hi everyone. I am hoping someone here has been in the same situation as me at some point recently or will have some advice. I just recently picked up a new 2013 Camry SE. It is only 3 weeks old now and the front end got taken out by someone crossing across 2 lanes of traffic and going into me. At the time of the accident, my car was only 2 weeks old. As of now, I know I need at least a new hood, bumper, lights, and passenger front fender plus a paint job. I haven't looked at if there is anything bent in the engine compartment since I do not want to open the hood or anything until the estimator gets here.

The person that is at fault has State Farm so I am dealing with them. I know I maybe asking a lot, but I want to push for a new car since I don't want to deal with a new car that is repaired and not worth what it should be. I am not sure if anyone has dealt with anything like this and could give me any advice on what I could do.

Thank you for anyone's help.
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8/16/2013 10:19am
There is no way you should settle for anything less than a new car, that is not asking for a lot, that is the only reasonable outcome for you. Have you talked to your insurance company? The car's value is going to be way less if it is just fixed. This is how your conversation with the insurance person should go.

You: I will not settle for anything less than a new replacement.

Insurance guy: Well what we can do is offer to fix it with used, non OEM parts.

You: Can you repeat that please. I couldn't quite catch what you said because my ears have been non stop ringing since the accident.

Insurance guy: Can we schedule to have our adjuster come and look at it.

You: Of course but it will be a little while because I have so many doctor appointments this week. Tomorrow I am scheduled to see the neurologist about why my hands and feet are numb, and the next day I have to see the orthopedist about my neck pain. Then on Wednesday I have a consultation with a personal injury lawyer, but if we could get this settled quickly I could probably reschedule these.

Insurance guy: I will direct deposit the amount you paid for the car plus $1,500.00 if you sign the settlement I am Fed Exing to you.


Seriously though, don't take any crap and absolutely do not settle for anything less than a new car.
jndmx
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8/16/2013 10:31am
There is no way you should settle for anything less than a new car, that is not asking for a lot, that is the only reasonable...
There is no way you should settle for anything less than a new car, that is not asking for a lot, that is the only reasonable outcome for you. Have you talked to your insurance company? The car's value is going to be way less if it is just fixed. This is how your conversation with the insurance person should go.

You: I will not settle for anything less than a new replacement.

Insurance guy: Well what we can do is offer to fix it with used, non OEM parts.

You: Can you repeat that please. I couldn't quite catch what you said because my ears have been non stop ringing since the accident.

Insurance guy: Can we schedule to have our adjuster come and look at it.

You: Of course but it will be a little while because I have so many doctor appointments this week. Tomorrow I am scheduled to see the neurologist about why my hands and feet are numb, and the next day I have to see the orthopedist about my neck pain. Then on Wednesday I have a consultation with a personal injury lawyer, but if we could get this settled quickly I could probably reschedule these.

Insurance guy: I will direct deposit the amount you paid for the car plus $1,500.00 if you sign the settlement I am Fed Exing to you.


Seriously though, don't take any crap and absolutely do not settle for anything less than a new car.
There you go.....

I definitely wouldn't settle for anything less than brand new and they should be providing you with a rental while you deal with the adjusters etc...
8/16/2013 12:04pm
Thankfully I was not hurt in the accident and just the car was.

I am glad I am not the only one thinking I should get a new car. I have talked to my insurance and the other party's insurance. Both are sending out estimators within the next week.

I'm figuring someone on here has been through all this, even though I don't wish this upon anyone.
newmann
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8/16/2013 12:06pm
There is no way you should settle for anything less than a new car, that is not asking for a lot, that is the only reasonable...
There is no way you should settle for anything less than a new car, that is not asking for a lot, that is the only reasonable outcome for you. Have you talked to your insurance company? The car's value is going to be way less if it is just fixed. This is how your conversation with the insurance person should go.

You: I will not settle for anything less than a new replacement.

Insurance guy: Well what we can do is offer to fix it with used, non OEM parts.

You: Can you repeat that please. I couldn't quite catch what you said because my ears have been non stop ringing since the accident.

Insurance guy: Can we schedule to have our adjuster come and look at it.

You: Of course but it will be a little while because I have so many doctor appointments this week. Tomorrow I am scheduled to see the neurologist about why my hands and feet are numb, and the next day I have to see the orthopedist about my neck pain. Then on Wednesday I have a consultation with a personal injury lawyer, but if we could get this settled quickly I could probably reschedule these.

Insurance guy: I will direct deposit the amount you paid for the car plus $1,500.00 if you sign the settlement I am Fed Exing to you.


Seriously though, don't take any crap and absolutely do not settle for anything less than a new car.
First off, all that is going to do is slow shit down and drag things out. You mention lawyer and they'll quit talking to you and only deal through your lawyer. Then you really will have to go and find one. From your description, it does not sound like your car is totaled so don't think anyone is going to jump through hoops to get you a new car, not even an attorney. You are going to have to go through the process.

Main thing with State Farm is that they will try to push you towards one of their "Select Service" shops. Maybe your choice of shops is on that list, maybe it isn't. Point is, take it to the shop of your choice, not theirs. They will try to paint a rosy picture about their network shop and a fucking rain cloud about every other shop in the area. Don't fall for it.

Here is where you need to start doing your homework. Get back with your selling dealer and tell them what happened and that you are wanting to trade the vehicle in on a new one. Maybe this is where the car is currently, at their collision repair facility if it had to be towed from the accident?? Have them give you an appraisal as to what the car is worth for trade in purposes in wrecked condition. Get the insurance company appraisal/estimate for repairs. The difference between the insurance estimate and what you will now have to come up with for a new replacement is your diminished value. Regardless of how perfect the vehicle is repaired, it will still be worth less than a 2 week old undamaged vehicle. Diminished value is a real thing, don't let them tell you differently. Tell them this needs to be addressed before any repairs are made. They will try to tell you that the vehicle will have to be repaired first but that is not necessarily true and will also add to the downtime of you being out of "your" car. They will provide a rental car, or if you have other transportation, ask for "loss of use". You can take that X number of dollars for X number of estimated repair days instead of rental.

Medical expenses and personal injury claims are unrelated to the property claim so don't get the two confused.

The Shop

8/16/2013 12:14pm
Thank you Newman for your insight. I don't plan on getting lawyers involved and hopefully not needing to do so.

I have already been informed on their "Select Service" stuff and they told me that once I hand it to one of their shops, they basically are done dealing with me which I don't want to do.

My issue is I bought the car right before heading back to college, so I am halfway across the country from where I bought it. I can't bring it back to my own dealership which would make sure everything was done correctly atleast. I have actually planned on doing what you said with getting the estimate for the repairs and wanting the diminished value before they touch anything.

You must have dealt with State Farm before because everything you just said is what I was told when I asked to speak to their diminished value people. I was told I am not allowed to talk to them until the repairs are made and that I was not even allowed to speak to a supervisor about my concerns around it all.
newmann
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8/16/2013 12:55pm
I have a collision repair business and all of the insurance companies have their "program" shops. It in no way, shape or form means that shop is better than any other shop. Also, don't think that any dealership body shop is going to do a better repair than an independent shop. I fix dealer mess ups from time to time and have a large number of customers who just absolutely refuse to let a dealer touch their cars. Like anything there are good ones, and there are not so good ones....

Do a quick google search for a diminished value company and give them a call. Quite often the diminished value is more than the actual damage repair costs. Their reasoning (ins. co.) behind having the vehicle repaired first is that they will try to pin some of the loss in value on the quality of repair and throw it back on your shoulders and the repair shop. It can be addressed pre repair. Like I said, you can trade the vehicle in wrecked, as is.

With the rise of so many off the wall insurance companies, State Farm has gotten extremely tight and difficult to deal with the last couple of years. They will not offer you any more than they absolutely have to so be prepared. They no longer are "like the good neighbor" that they used to be. Good luck and let us know how it goes for you.
APLMAN99
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Fantasy
8/16/2013 3:48pm
There is no way you should settle for anything less than a new car, that is not asking for a lot, that is the only reasonable...
There is no way you should settle for anything less than a new car, that is not asking for a lot, that is the only reasonable outcome for you. Have you talked to your insurance company? The car's value is going to be way less if it is just fixed. This is how your conversation with the insurance person should go.

You: I will not settle for anything less than a new replacement.

Insurance guy: Well what we can do is offer to fix it with used, non OEM parts.

You: Can you repeat that please. I couldn't quite catch what you said because my ears have been non stop ringing since the accident.

Insurance guy: Can we schedule to have our adjuster come and look at it.

You: Of course but it will be a little while because I have so many doctor appointments this week. Tomorrow I am scheduled to see the neurologist about why my hands and feet are numb, and the next day I have to see the orthopedist about my neck pain. Then on Wednesday I have a consultation with a personal injury lawyer, but if we could get this settled quickly I could probably reschedule these.

Insurance guy: I will direct deposit the amount you paid for the car plus $1,500.00 if you sign the settlement I am Fed Exing to you.


Seriously though, don't take any crap and absolutely do not settle for anything less than a new car.
newmann wrote:
First off, all that is going to do is slow shit down and drag things out. You mention lawyer and they'll quit talking to you and...
First off, all that is going to do is slow shit down and drag things out. You mention lawyer and they'll quit talking to you and only deal through your lawyer. Then you really will have to go and find one. From your description, it does not sound like your car is totaled so don't think anyone is going to jump through hoops to get you a new car, not even an attorney. You are going to have to go through the process.

Main thing with State Farm is that they will try to push you towards one of their "Select Service" shops. Maybe your choice of shops is on that list, maybe it isn't. Point is, take it to the shop of your choice, not theirs. They will try to paint a rosy picture about their network shop and a fucking rain cloud about every other shop in the area. Don't fall for it.

Here is where you need to start doing your homework. Get back with your selling dealer and tell them what happened and that you are wanting to trade the vehicle in on a new one. Maybe this is where the car is currently, at their collision repair facility if it had to be towed from the accident?? Have them give you an appraisal as to what the car is worth for trade in purposes in wrecked condition. Get the insurance company appraisal/estimate for repairs. The difference between the insurance estimate and what you will now have to come up with for a new replacement is your diminished value. Regardless of how perfect the vehicle is repaired, it will still be worth less than a 2 week old undamaged vehicle. Diminished value is a real thing, don't let them tell you differently. Tell them this needs to be addressed before any repairs are made. They will try to tell you that the vehicle will have to be repaired first but that is not necessarily true and will also add to the downtime of you being out of "your" car. They will provide a rental car, or if you have other transportation, ask for "loss of use". You can take that X number of dollars for X number of estimated repair days instead of rental.

Medical expenses and personal injury claims are unrelated to the property claim so don't get the two confused.
If the car is repaired, then how is the value of it before repairs relevant? You lost me in there somewhere.

If the car is truly repaired correctly, the only difference between the car before and after the accident is emotional.
8/16/2013 4:10pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
If the car is repaired, then how is the value of it before repairs relevant? You lost me in there somewhere. If the car is truly...
If the car is repaired, then how is the value of it before repairs relevant? You lost me in there somewhere.

If the car is truly repaired correctly, the only difference between the car before and after the accident is emotional.
It will always show that it was in a accident and the resale will be less. Even if its fixed like it should be it will always show up in things like carfax that it was wrecked and it will make it worth less. The car is new so its even more of a hit on the value even after the first major depreciation of value when you take a new car off the lot. mxbowler is taking two hits on the value because it is new.
8/16/2013 4:38pm
Thank you so much Newman for your help on all this. I will find a diminished value person on Monday.

I have two more questions for you. I have found who the "best" body shop is in town, but when I took it there, they told me they can't guarantee the paint will match when they paint the bumpers and fenders. They tried saying that it is because of the way paint is put on plastic versus metal, but I can't tell a difference in the two materials from the factory. Is this actually true?
Also, is there anyway I make sure they actually replace the parts instead of just trying to push them back? I know the bumper needs to be replaced considering the other car ripped a few holes in it, but the front side fender is pulled away from the hood a good 3/4 of an inch. I don't really want them just trying to push the fender back to look like it is aligned. I want to have the new parts considering it is a new car.
newmann
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8/16/2013 6:48pm
lostboy819 wrote:
It will always show that it was in a accident and the resale will be less. Even if its fixed like it should be it will...
It will always show that it was in a accident and the resale will be less. Even if its fixed like it should be it will always show up in things like carfax that it was wrecked and it will make it worth less. The car is new so its even more of a hit on the value even after the first major depreciation of value when you take a new car off the lot. mxbowler is taking two hits on the value because it is new.
Correct. If you went to a dealer to buy a used car and there were two identical vehicles sitting there, both with 10,000 miles on them and both priced at $25,000.00 and you had to make a choice. Car number one was perfect and shows no signs of damage and the dealer can guarantee that. Car number two is also perfect and shows no real signs of damage but the dealer tells you the previous owner traded it in because it recently had a $12,000.00 collision repair. Which one are you going to buy? Which one would you not even consider unless they gave you a ridiculously discounted price? Diminished value, it's a real thing. And yes, a old clapped out car with a brand new shiny front end may actually increase in value.

Car Fax? I'm not sure what all sources their info comes from but I have seen many poorly repaired vehicles with "clean" carfax reports. While it is a good starting point, it cannot be trusted to any great degree. A quick walk around by a reputable collision repairer can reveal repairs even of great quality. Differences in the appearance of paint texture, wrench marks on bolts, appearance of spot welds and seam sealers, clamp marks from the frame machine anchors on the rocker panel pinchwelds.....all easy to spot.
Racer92
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8/16/2013 7:18pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2013 7:20pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
If the car is repaired, then how is the value of it before repairs relevant? You lost me in there somewhere. If the car is truly...
If the car is repaired, then how is the value of it before repairs relevant? You lost me in there somewhere.

If the car is truly repaired correctly, the only difference between the car before and after the accident is emotional.
You obviously have never worked on collison repair. No such thing as "truly repaired correctly" after that kind crash.

The car will never be truly like it was pre collision.
newmann
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8/16/2013 7:22pm
mxbowler wrote:
Thank you so much Newman for your help on all this. I will find a diminished value person on Monday. I have two more questions for...
Thank you so much Newman for your help on all this. I will find a diminished value person on Monday.

I have two more questions for you. I have found who the "best" body shop is in town, but when I took it there, they told me they can't guarantee the paint will match when they paint the bumpers and fenders. They tried saying that it is because of the way paint is put on plastic versus metal, but I can't tell a difference in the two materials from the factory. Is this actually true?
Also, is there anyway I make sure they actually replace the parts instead of just trying to push them back? I know the bumper needs to be replaced considering the other car ripped a few holes in it, but the front side fender is pulled away from the hood a good 3/4 of an inch. I don't really want them just trying to push the fender back to look like it is aligned. I want to have the new parts considering it is a new car.
On the paint match, three things to consider are color, gloss and texture. There is some truth to the color match issue but they will be painting all of your parts with the same color and the same clearcoat so there really should be little to no variance between the parts they paint whether plastic or metal. Now, if they replace a part and only paint that one part without blending the color to the next adjacent panel then you very well may have a slight or obvious color variation from one angle or another. All of the plastic and trim parts are painted at the factory separately from the actual car itself. If your car is a metallic color I can guarantee if you look at the bumpers to the fenders from different angles you will be able to tell a difference. It may be slight or it may be obvious but it will vary. You may not want them painting on undamaged fenders to make a bumper match that never really matched in the first place. Factory paint is pretty good these days and I always recommend to keep it as original as possible for as long as possible. The factories can't seem to match their own colors though and we find ourselves sorting through up to seventeen "variances" of the same paint code for some cars.....namely one particular gold Toyota.... Some of them can be a pain.

As for replacement parts if you find yourself getting the car repaired? It is new so the insurance company should not be allowing for anything but new OEM parts. Make sure the shop understands your position on this. Tell them you don't want any remanufactured, reconditioned or used parts and that you want to be informed if the adjuster allows for any on the estimate. Damaged parts being repaired is another issue. Just make sure you are informed as to why something would be repaired versus replaced. If a fender has minor damage and can be properly repaired, realigned and refinished without having to apply any color up to the edge of the hood and the edge of the door then you don't have to worry about blending the color to those additional panels. Replacing the fender will require the adjacent panels to be blended for a proper color match. Many replacement parts now come with a RDOT decal on them that by law has to remain in place to show it is a replacement part and not stolen from another car. It is also a dead giveaway that a car has been wrecked.

If the radiator has to be replaced, remember that Toyota uses a red anti freeze and that's what needs to go back in it. You don't want to find yourself being denied a warranty claim years down the road because someone put green coolant in it. Little details....
newmann
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8/16/2013 7:30pm
Racer92 wrote:
You obviously have never worked on collison repair. No such thing as "truly repaired correctly" after that kind crash. The car will never be truly like...
You obviously have never worked on collison repair. No such thing as "truly repaired correctly" after that kind crash.

The car will never be truly like it was pre collision.
I'll argue that. Yes, it can be truly repaired correctly. I'll also agree that it will not make it truly like it was pre collision. That "emotional" value translates over to monetary value.

All in all this is what I call a good wreck. No one got hurt and the car can either be repaired or replaced. Yes it sucks, but it could always have been worse.
reded
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8/17/2013 6:52am
Newmann is correct on the diminished value thing. I bought my truck in '04 and one year later a kid backed into it and destroyed the door and rocker panel. Since I'm a picky SOB the thought of driving a fucked up truck due to the repair job getting hacked was making me sick to my stomach. Luckily, the repair job was perfection and I was offered $1800 in diminished value AFTER the repair was done. I was able to live with the repairs so I took the money and used it to help pay off the loan. I'm still driving this paid off truck 8 years later with no issues.
8/17/2013 10:29am
Thank you so much for more info Newmann. The paint I have is called Cosmic Grey and is the black that has a blue and green metallic underneath it. I don't know if you have had any experience with this color and how hard it is to match then.

I met with my insurance estimator this morning and he went through my car. The visible damage is the front bumper, passenger headlight and passenger fog light all have to be replaced fully, the grill needs to be fixed and painted, the passenger front bumper needs to be bent back at the bracket, the hood needs to be aligned and all the lights need to be realigned. He said that the only other thing that needs to be looked at when it is in the shop is the front absorber to see if that was damaged at all.

The thing I did not understand, and maybe you can clear this up, is that he told me that there will be no diminished value due to the car being so new. This occurred in Kansas and I know that the dealerships here can repair a new car on the lot and not report it at all. I don't know if my car falls under that or is he just lying about that to get the total lower? I'm assuming the new front bumper will have that RDOT sticker on it and this will all have to be reported so anyone knows that the car has been repaired.

One thing he did say about the paint is to make sure the auto body shop I choose uses a computer system to match my paint and if they try to mix any paint to leave that shop immediately and find another one.

And reded, I see you are from Kansas. Are you from around the Wichita area? If so, which body shop did you go to?

Thank you guys so much for all this. And I have to agree with Newmann that this could have been much worse and am happy I or the other driver are not hurt and just the cars are.

One more question for you Newmann, would you be willing to give me your email and I will email you pictures of the damage and you could tell me how you would fix it? I understand if this would take too much time.
newmann
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8/17/2013 11:22am
He's lying about no diminished value. It will actually be more considering the car is so new. Laws about it do vary from state to state and there are a number of different ways to calculate it. The insurance companies may use a percentage of repair cost method which will always be in their favor.

He's also clueless about using a computer system to match the paint. I'm guessing he's speaking of one of the color scanning systems some of the paint companies have. They suck so bad that most companies no longer use them. We use Glasurit paint and they have an excellent color chip deck system that has actual sprayed out color cards of the colors and all of the variants of that color. Just remember that many insurance estimators or adjusters have never actually worked on vehicles or were so unsuccessful at it that they had to find another line of work...LOL

Shoot me some pics and a scan of the estimate if you can. PM'd e-mail
reded
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8/17/2013 1:26pm
mxbowler wrote:
Thank you so much for more info Newmann. The paint I have is called Cosmic Grey and is the black that has a blue and green...
Thank you so much for more info Newmann. The paint I have is called Cosmic Grey and is the black that has a blue and green metallic underneath it. I don't know if you have had any experience with this color and how hard it is to match then.

I met with my insurance estimator this morning and he went through my car. The visible damage is the front bumper, passenger headlight and passenger fog light all have to be replaced fully, the grill needs to be fixed and painted, the passenger front bumper needs to be bent back at the bracket, the hood needs to be aligned and all the lights need to be realigned. He said that the only other thing that needs to be looked at when it is in the shop is the front absorber to see if that was damaged at all.

The thing I did not understand, and maybe you can clear this up, is that he told me that there will be no diminished value due to the car being so new. This occurred in Kansas and I know that the dealerships here can repair a new car on the lot and not report it at all. I don't know if my car falls under that or is he just lying about that to get the total lower? I'm assuming the new front bumper will have that RDOT sticker on it and this will all have to be reported so anyone knows that the car has been repaired.

One thing he did say about the paint is to make sure the auto body shop I choose uses a computer system to match my paint and if they try to mix any paint to leave that shop immediately and find another one.

And reded, I see you are from Kansas. Are you from around the Wichita area? If so, which body shop did you go to?

Thank you guys so much for all this. And I have to agree with Newmann that this could have been much worse and am happy I or the other driver are not hurt and just the cars are.

One more question for you Newmann, would you be willing to give me your email and I will email you pictures of the damage and you could tell me how you would fix it? I understand if this would take too much time.
I'm from the KC area and used a local shop with a rep for quality work.
8/17/2013 5:16pm
It was hard for me to believe the diminished value wouldn't matter since the car was so new. But I also know Kansas has the stupid law that people can fix brand new cars and not report it here, which I had never heard of until I looked at a tornado damaged car.

I wasn't too sure on the paint either. I figured the paint should come from Toyota, shouldn't it?

Alright reded, I was hoping it was around here that I could take it.
newmann
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8/17/2013 6:01pm
Toyota does not make paint. BASF/Glasurit, PPG, DuPont (sold and name changed), Spies Hecker or Sherwin Williams will most likely be the paint supplier. We have our own mixing system from Glasurit and mix the colors in house. Good stuff.

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