time to put "Red-Cross Flag Gate" to bed?

peelout
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Edited Date/Time 3/8/2013 6:04am
i understand this won't satisfy all those looking to lynch Villopoto, but here is some insight directly from Crowther himself.

take it or leave it.

the ruling has been made. the penalty was assessed. move on, folks.

RacerX : More on red cross flag gate
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GrapeApe
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3/5/2013 1:53pm
I second the motion . . .
FastEddy
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3/5/2013 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2013 1:54pm
““I can tell you that there is no way in hell we would ever let any rider, team or sponsor influence a decision,”

O'lordy.....
I think I will go test cars next weekend or something. Smile
kongols
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3/5/2013 1:54pm
lol
3/5/2013 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2013 1:57pm
You just called out someone for starting another thread about this topic, then you start one yourself? Omg, that is classic Vital right there...

So just a question here, does Monster pay the AMA to sanction the race?

The Shop

kongols
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3/5/2013 1:55pm
FastEddy wrote:
[i]““I can tell you that there is no way in hell we would ever let any rider, team or sponsor influence a decision,”[/i] O'lordy..... I think...
““I can tell you that there is no way in hell we would ever let any rider, team or sponsor influence a decision,”

O'lordy.....
I think I will go test cars next weekend or something. Smile
Ryan Villopoto:
"They originally told me, we’re going to dock you after the race. And I’m like, whoa, well you’re restarting so start me now… so then they said okay, yeah, yeah, they must have mis-said what they were originally going to do, and ended up changing it. That was good because whatever happened during the race it’s not like I was stuck with winning and then getting docked. So that was good."
FastEddy
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3/5/2013 1:56pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2013 1:57pm
FastEddy wrote:
[i]““I can tell you that there is no way in hell we would ever let any rider, team or sponsor influence a decision,”[/i] O'lordy..... I think...
““I can tell you that there is no way in hell we would ever let any rider, team or sponsor influence a decision,”

O'lordy.....
I think I will go test cars next weekend or something. Smile
kongols wrote:
Ryan Villopoto: "They originally told me, we’re going to dock you after the race. And I’m like, whoa, well you’re restarting so start me now… so...
Ryan Villopoto:
"They originally told me, we’re going to dock you after the race. And I’m like, whoa, well you’re restarting so start me now… so then they said okay, yeah, yeah, they must have mis-said what they were originally going to do, and ended up changing it. That was good because whatever happened during the race it’s not like I was stuck with winning and then getting docked. So that was good."
Woohoo
Oh I know.... I know... Laughing Laughing Laughing

peelout
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3/5/2013 1:57pm
You just called out someone for starting another thread about this topic, then you start one yourself? Omg, that is classic Vital right there... So just...
You just called out someone for starting another thread about this topic, then you start one yourself? Omg, that is classic Vital right there...

So just a question here, does Monster pay the AMA to sanction the race?
not even in the same category but nice try.

there were literally 3 other threads about RV getting the "wrong" penalty.

there hasn't been a single thread about this article on RacerX.

but thanks for playing.
3/5/2013 2:05pm
You just called out someone for starting another thread about this topic, then you start one yourself? Omg, that is classic Vital right there... So just...
You just called out someone for starting another thread about this topic, then you start one yourself? Omg, that is classic Vital right there...

So just a question here, does Monster pay the AMA to sanction the race?
peelout wrote:
not even in the same category but nice try. there were literally 3 other threads about RV getting the "wrong" penalty. there hasn't been a single...
not even in the same category but nice try.

there were literally 3 other threads about RV getting the "wrong" penalty.

there hasn't been a single thread about this article on RacerX.

but thanks for playing.
So your link could not of been posted in one of three that were already being discussed? We are talking about the same issue. I would think your new topic would make more sense in a thread where its being discussed.

Not even in the same catagory? Really? Your drunk right now right?
FreshTopEnd
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3/5/2013 2:07pm
Not entirely in bed.

What Crowther said amongst that was that need to review and possibly tweak the existing rules to create more clarity. What happens with that matters, because as the AMA/FIM has handled it thus far, the message they've sent to the riders is that if the situation is at all unclear when a red cross flag is out, or it can be argued that it's unclear, you need go for it or someone else will take advantage of you. And I suspect no one wants that in red cross flag situations, for the sake of the downed riders and med crew.

I do think anytime someone gets on a board and says a rule says "X" when in fact it doesn't, in this or any other situations, it's worth a comment saying "no, in fact, this is what the rules says." But maybe not copying and pasting the text of the rule five thousand times.

But as far as the lynchings, it was in bed when the AMA finalized it's decision, and no one who doesn't agree by now is going to be convinced to change their mind.
dak446
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3/5/2013 2:07pm
It doesn't really put anything to bed. 4 sentences from Crowther basically saying he's sticking with his decision right or wrong doesn't put anyone's woes at ease.

Possibly more disconcerting is that Weege points out: "At this point, the decision is done and Crowther (and the FIM’s John Gallagher) made their decision based on the video evidence they had. That’s pretty much all he had left to say on this specific incident." which really emphasizes the 'show' status of our sport. If this were a 'real' sport, the sanctioning body would certainly have made a press release, done the correct PR required to sooth the masses (or at least try), etc. instead of try to sweep it under the rug with a handful of sentences about them sticking to their guns and reviewing the rule book.
kongols
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3/5/2013 2:07pm
FastEddy wrote:
[i]““I can tell you that there is no way in hell we would ever let any rider, team or sponsor influence a decision,”[/i] O'lordy..... I think...
““I can tell you that there is no way in hell we would ever let any rider, team or sponsor influence a decision,”

O'lordy.....
I think I will go test cars next weekend or something. Smile
kongols wrote:
Ryan Villopoto: "They originally told me, we’re going to dock you after the race. And I’m like, whoa, well you’re restarting so start me now… so...
Ryan Villopoto:
"They originally told me, we’re going to dock you after the race. And I’m like, whoa, well you’re restarting so start me now… so then they said okay, yeah, yeah, they must have mis-said what they were originally going to do, and ended up changing it. That was good because whatever happened during the race it’s not like I was stuck with winning and then getting docked. So that was good."
FastEddy wrote:
:woohoo: Oh I know.... I know... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: [img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/pinocchio1.gif[/img]
Woohoo
Oh I know.... I know... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Laughing Laughing Laughing It`s getting better and better.
purpleNurple
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3/5/2013 2:12pm
I have a feeling they A) do not know their own rules. and 2) They know they screwed up big time and are not big enough to fix the issue themselves.
jasonv43
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3/5/2013 2:14pm
"They're going to have to go through the book with a fine toothed comb to eliminate some of those gray areas."

Like they didn't have plenty of time to do this before shit hit the fan?
MXerDW
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3/5/2013 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2013 2:41pm
I just want to hear why they penalized someone in the middle of the race?

There was no points handed out after the first three laps when they had the red flag and restart. It was not two separate races, it was one main event with a red flag situation after lap three. Penalties are supposed to be handed out after the race has finished.
jasonv43
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3/5/2013 2:15pm
MXerDW wrote:
I just want to hear why they penalized someone in the middle of the race? There was no points handed out after the first three laps...
I just want to hear why they penalized someone in the middle of the race?

There was no points handed out after the first three laps when they had the red flag and restart. It was not two separate races, it was one main event with a red flag situation after lap three. Penalties are supposed to be handed out after the race has finished.
Exactly.
BAMX
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3/5/2013 2:21pm
Every rule book that I have ever seen has something in the beginning that says that hey can do what they please and if you don't like it you can go F$%k off. They usually word it a bit more eloquently but the meaning is the same.
Choppy
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3/5/2013 2:24pm
What exactly do they pay the AMA/FIM to do?
CamP
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3/5/2013 2:27pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2013 2:27pm
If you jump on a red cross flag in the final, you shouldn't be allowed to leave the track with 25 points.
SLAPAHO
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Fantasy
3/5/2013 2:28pm
FastEddy
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3/5/2013 2:29pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2013 2:29pm
kongols wrote:
Laughing Laughing Laughing It`s getting better and better.
We could always start up a paypal fund to pay for polygraph tests for Crowther & RV on a MX radio show and see which one is telling the truth... I got a feeling RV wouldn't turn down his test.
With that said,I believe RV and I believe he just wouldn't fabricate what he said.
3/5/2013 2:29pm
You just called out someone for starting another thread about this topic, then you start one yourself? Omg, that is classic Vital right there... So just...
You just called out someone for starting another thread about this topic, then you start one yourself? Omg, that is classic Vital right there...

So just a question here, does Monster pay the AMA to sanction the race?
peelout wrote:
not even in the same category but nice try. there were literally 3 other threads about RV getting the "wrong" penalty. there hasn't been a single...
not even in the same category but nice try.

there were literally 3 other threads about RV getting the "wrong" penalty.

there hasn't been a single thread about this article on RacerX.

but thanks for playing.
So your link could not of been posted in one of three that were already being discussed? We are talking about the same issue. I would...
So your link could not of been posted in one of three that were already being discussed? We are talking about the same issue. I would think your new topic would make more sense in a thread where its being discussed.

Not even in the same catagory? Really? Your drunk right now right?
Grinning Grinning Grinning
FreshTopEnd
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3/5/2013 2:32pm
BAMX wrote:
Every rule book that I have ever seen has something in the beginning that says that hey can do what they please and if you don't...
Every rule book that I have ever seen has something in the beginning that says that hey can do what they please and if you don't like it you can go F$%k off. They usually word it a bit more eloquently but the meaning is the same.
Actually, this rule book is a little different. It says they can do nothing, or do certain things. They didn't do nothing, and the thing they did do was not in the list of things they can do.

Something for the fine-toothed comb I suppose.
3/5/2013 2:36pm
Who the funk thinks that if, after seeing a cross flag, a subsequent yellow flag negates??? That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
MotoFreak2772
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3/5/2013 2:40pm
"Why was Ryan Villopoto not penalized after the race for his first infraction?"
I like how they made no comment on that question. I guess they will need to make another call and ask again...
yota
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3/5/2013 2:40pm
No other world championship competition would let this stand. It's a joke.
jasonv43
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3/5/2013 2:41pm
BAMX
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3/5/2013 2:44pm
BAMX wrote:
Every rule book that I have ever seen has something in the beginning that says that hey can do what they please and if you don't...
Every rule book that I have ever seen has something in the beginning that says that hey can do what they please and if you don't like it you can go F$%k off. They usually word it a bit more eloquently but the meaning is the same.
Actually, this rule book is a little different. It says they can do nothing, or do certain things. They didn't do nothing, and the thing they...
Actually, this rule book is a little different. It says they can do nothing, or do certain things. They didn't do nothing, and the thing they did do was not in the list of things they can do.

Something for the fine-toothed comb I suppose.
Below is the paragraph that I am talking about. All they do is claim that the situation was ambiguous due to the red flag and the race director does whatever he wants'. In this case he gives a Monster sponsored rider in a Monster sponsored series a penalty that he knows he can overcome. NA$CAR is the best. They just have a vague rule about actions detrimental to stock car racing


From the 2013 FIM Supercross Rule book

"Please note that while every effort has been made to write these rules in a clear and unambiguous fashion, it is impossible to anticipate every circumstance. It will be the Race Director’s responsibility to make decisions regarding rules enforcement."
DrSweden
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3/5/2013 2:50pm
Vital just dig the shades of gray! Grinning This is one of those topics that will in the end will die off because of poster fatigue.

The turtle guy approach is as good as any other.

https://youtu.be/MwX1STBPvzw
Dezerted
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3/5/2013 2:52pm
What I've surmised in the last few days....

Villopoto fans are tired of their guy, instead Stewart, getting the heat.
AMA has no idea how to enforce their own rules.
Even if Monster had influence over the AMA, anyone involved with the sport (including GuyCool wouldn't address it anyways. In fact they'd deny it.
peelout
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3/5/2013 2:54pm
@JasonV

fixed it Wink

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