The Psychology of Atheism

Edited Date/Time 2/13/2013 12:41pm
I read this paper in a collection on Religious Philosophy yesterday and found it's main point interesting that there is a strong correlation between prominent atheist thinkers and their dysfunctional or disappointing relationships with their fathers. It is more than likely that there are deep-seated psychological reasons behind anger towards God and religion, otherwise it would only be logical that an atheist who arrived at their position by reason alone would be apathetic towards God, religious people and religion in general.


http://www.faithinterface.com.au/apologetics/the-psychology-of-atheism-prof-paul-c-vitz

The Psychology of Atheism


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jtomasik
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2/6/2013 9:11am Edited Date/Time 2/6/2013 9:11am
That's funny, because my father was a wonderful man who raised me without a mother. Sounds more like the religious trying to save their gods against facts, reality, and common sense again....lol.
2/6/2013 9:18am
I don't think that is right.

I am a devout Christian but the vast majority of atheists I've met wouldn't necessarily fit into this description. Yes I've met some that are just bitter towards life for various reasons, but it's not necessarily about their father. They do all have one psychological thing in common but this isn't it.
jndmx
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2/6/2013 9:32am
Maybe some folks are better at thinking for themselves than others........parenting non-withstanding.
2/6/2013 9:46am
jtomasik wrote:
That's funny, because my father was a wonderful man who raised me without a mother. Sounds more like the religious trying to save their gods against...
That's funny, because my father was a wonderful man who raised me without a mother. Sounds more like the religious trying to save their gods against facts, reality, and common sense again....lol.
I think in Psychology 60 to 70% is considered a strong connection, so yeah a lot of people are not going to have this correlation. There may be other factors involved in your case but the connection is undeniable in these prominent atheists thinkers mentioned.

The Shop

2/6/2013 9:53am
jndmx wrote:
Maybe some folks are better at thinking for themselves than others........parenting non-withstanding.
Maybe, but if "thinking for themselves" is the only thing involved then indifference towards God and religion would be the logical response not anger. By the way if there is no God you can't think for yourself anyways, in that case your thoughts are all derived from your psyche and/or biochemistry (but that is a different topic).
TFS
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2/6/2013 10:14am
Man, the believers sure are annoying and can't keep shit to themselves huh?

If this thread were by an atheist making the claim about believers, we would be reading "stop talking about religion..."
2/6/2013 10:23am
TFS wrote:
Man, the believers sure are annoying and can't keep shit to themselves huh? If this thread were by an atheist making the claim about believers, we...
Man, the believers sure are annoying and can't keep shit to themselves huh?

If this thread were by an atheist making the claim about believers, we would be reading "stop talking about religion..."
I am sorry if it is annoying to you but this thread isn't about religion it is about atheism and psychology.

How was your relationship with your father? How does that make you feel?
jndmx
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2/6/2013 10:24am Edited Date/Time 2/6/2013 10:26am
jndmx wrote:
Maybe some folks are better at thinking for themselves than others........parenting non-withstanding.
Maybe, but if "thinking for themselves" is the only thing involved then indifference towards God and religion would be the logical response not anger. By the...
Maybe, but if "thinking for themselves" is the only thing involved then indifference towards God and religion would be the logical response not anger. By the way if there is no God you can't think for yourself anyways, in that case your thoughts are all derived from your psyche and/or biochemistry (but that is a different topic).
Who said anything about being angry?

If I look at the world around me and the effects that I have on what takes place rather than the idea of asking some diety to watch over me is that not a reasoned and thoughtful process by which I arrive at my beliefs?

How does not having a belief in God translate to anger automatically, that is sort of generalizing about a lot of folks that can't possibly be quantified.
You know a whole lot more angry shit has happened in the world in the name of God.....quite a bit of it because folks wouldn't swear allegiance to one particular religion or another.

Your second point makes no sense, since there is no way to prove in a concrete fashion the existance or non-existance and yet here we are thoughtfully discussing it.
jtomasik
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2/6/2013 10:25am
jtomasik wrote:
That's funny, because my father was a wonderful man who raised me without a mother. Sounds more like the religious trying to save their gods against...
That's funny, because my father was a wonderful man who raised me without a mother. Sounds more like the religious trying to save their gods against facts, reality, and common sense again....lol.
I think in Psychology 60 to 70% is considered a strong connection, so yeah a lot of people are not going to have this correlation. There...
I think in Psychology 60 to 70% is considered a strong connection, so yeah a lot of people are not going to have this correlation. There may be other factors involved in your case but the connection is undeniable in these prominent atheists thinkers mentioned.
I can tell you exactly what turned me into a person who doesn't buy into religion.
2/6/2013 10:31am
jtomasik wrote:
That's funny, because my father was a wonderful man who raised me without a mother. Sounds more like the religious trying to save their gods against...
That's funny, because my father was a wonderful man who raised me without a mother. Sounds more like the religious trying to save their gods against facts, reality, and common sense again....lol.
I think in Psychology 60 to 70% is considered a strong connection, so yeah a lot of people are not going to have this correlation. There...
I think in Psychology 60 to 70% is considered a strong connection, so yeah a lot of people are not going to have this correlation. There may be other factors involved in your case but the connection is undeniable in these prominent atheists thinkers mentioned.
jtomasik wrote:
I can tell you exactly what turned me into a person who doesn't buy into religion.
Lets hear it.
72kiteboarder
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2/6/2013 10:39am
You know what even more striking is the relationship between religion and poor education.
jtomasik
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2/6/2013 10:44am Edited Date/Time 2/6/2013 10:45am
Lets hear it.
First, I was born and raised a Christian, just to let you know.

I have a sister who was a pretty bad person (drugs, disrespected our family, dropped out of high school, etc., etc....you get the picture). She's 9 years older than me. Anyway, people of that caliber sometimes reach out for the outrageous. My sister became a Jehovah's Witness. When I was 11, she told me of the impending Armagheddon. The Witness's, bless their hearts, make the fatal mistake of putting dates on things. That Armagheddon was supposed to happen the following year, in 1974. Scared the living fuck out of me. I started going to her meetings, door to door, you get the picture. 1974 comes and goes without a hiccup.

Now, I'm not someone special, but I'm sharp enough, even at 11, to hit the brakes and say, "what the fuck?" The Witnesses convinced me that only they could properly interpret the bible, and they knew exactly what Jehovah (using their terms) was going to do. Umm....apparently they proved themselves wrong. It really opened my eyes. So, I started reading about world religions (including but also beyond Christianity), and it became obvious that these gods are stories throughout humanity, but created by humans.

Nothing I've found since has changed my view of that. I love my sister (not in an Arkansas way, though...lol), and I understand she only had the best intent. But, I ain't buying the religious guff, no matter what they're using their belief for. There might be something that created this, but humans just aren't that smart to figure it out....yet.
2/6/2013 10:45am
jndmx wrote:
Maybe some folks are better at thinking for themselves than others........parenting non-withstanding.
Maybe, but if "thinking for themselves" is the only thing involved then indifference towards God and religion would be the logical response not anger. By the...
Maybe, but if "thinking for themselves" is the only thing involved then indifference towards God and religion would be the logical response not anger. By the way if there is no God you can't think for yourself anyways, in that case your thoughts are all derived from your psyche and/or biochemistry (but that is a different topic).
jndmx wrote:
Who said anything about being angry? If I look at the world around me and the effects that I have on what takes place rather than...
Who said anything about being angry?

If I look at the world around me and the effects that I have on what takes place rather than the idea of asking some diety to watch over me is that not a reasoned and thoughtful process by which I arrive at my beliefs?

How does not having a belief in God translate to anger automatically, that is sort of generalizing about a lot of folks that can't possibly be quantified.
You know a whole lot more angry shit has happened in the world in the name of God.....quite a bit of it because folks wouldn't swear allegiance to one particular religion or another.

Your second point makes no sense, since there is no way to prove in a concrete fashion the existance or non-existance and yet here we are thoughtfully discussing it.
I don't think not having a a belief in God necessarily translates to anger, but many atheist do have a lot of anger towards God and religion. Many like the paper cited devoted their entire careers to combat it. Look at your original statement though. "Maybe some folks are better at thinking for themselves than others" If you are not angry you are at least condescending towards those who have belief in God.
2/6/2013 10:53am
You know what even more striking is the relationship between religion and poor education.
Really? Did you know Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Oxford, Cambridge etc. were all started by Christians for Christian purposes. Does one get a poor education at Notre Dame? Do you think youare better educated than the person who wrote the article referenced in the OP?
2/6/2013 10:59am
Lets hear it.
jtomasik wrote:
First, I was born and raised a Christian, just to let you know. I have a sister who was a pretty bad person (drugs, disrespected our...
First, I was born and raised a Christian, just to let you know.

I have a sister who was a pretty bad person (drugs, disrespected our family, dropped out of high school, etc., etc....you get the picture). She's 9 years older than me. Anyway, people of that caliber sometimes reach out for the outrageous. My sister became a Jehovah's Witness. When I was 11, she told me of the impending Armagheddon. The Witness's, bless their hearts, make the fatal mistake of putting dates on things. That Armagheddon was supposed to happen the following year, in 1974. Scared the living fuck out of me. I started going to her meetings, door to door, you get the picture. 1974 comes and goes without a hiccup.

Now, I'm not someone special, but I'm sharp enough, even at 11, to hit the brakes and say, "what the fuck?" The Witnesses convinced me that only they could properly interpret the bible, and they knew exactly what Jehovah (using their terms) was going to do. Umm....apparently they proved themselves wrong. It really opened my eyes. So, I started reading about world religions (including but also beyond Christianity), and it became obvious that these gods are stories throughout humanity, but created by humans.

Nothing I've found since has changed my view of that. I love my sister (not in an Arkansas way, though...lol), and I understand she only had the best intent. But, I ain't buying the religious guff, no matter what they're using their belief for. There might be something that created this, but humans just aren't that smart to figure it out....yet.
I can definitely see how that experience would cause you to have a negative view of religion and God in general.
jtomasik
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2/6/2013 11:02am Edited Date/Time 2/6/2013 11:03am
I can definitely see how that experience would cause you to have a negative view of religion and God in general.
You keep making the mistake of differentiating between religions and God. The 'God' you refer to is defined by your religion. I don't believe in that 'God', because I believe your religion to be like every other....man-made, and a fear-based guess on what created and 'controls' this universe.

Some sort of creator? Umm...maybe. If it/they exist, it did so before the big bang, so it/they is something beyond our physical universe and impossible for me to describe, since I only understand things based on the way this universe behaves. If something(s) made this, it/they are absolutely awesome. But, it/they sure as heck isn't defined by any religion.
FlaNard
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2/6/2013 11:11am
I call bullshit. I admire my dad more then anyone Ive ever known, and I have a fantastic relationship with him. I have a great relationship with my whole family, including my in-laws. I love my father in-law as well. Try again. Just for you guys, I present mother fucking JIM JEFFERIES. Enjoy.

FlaNard
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2/6/2013 11:12am
You know what even more striking is the relationship between religion and poor education.
BOOM.
2/6/2013 11:21am
jtomasik wrote:
You keep making the mistake of differentiating between religions and God. The 'God' you refer to is defined by your religion. I don't believe in that...
You keep making the mistake of differentiating between religions and God. The 'God' you refer to is defined by your religion. I don't believe in that 'God', because I believe your religion to be like every other....man-made, and a fear-based guess on what created and 'controls' this universe.

Some sort of creator? Umm...maybe. If it/they exist, it did so before the big bang, so it/they is something beyond our physical universe and impossible for me to describe, since I only understand things based on the way this universe behaves. If something(s) made this, it/they are absolutely awesome. But, it/they sure as heck isn't defined by any religion.
Granted, I will give you credit for being an equal opportunity religion critic (with the exception of nominal Buddhism). However 99% of all atheist energy is geared towards the Judeo-Christian understanding of God so I am just going with the common constructs of these discussions.

As far a Christianity being fear based, I understand many have used and abused it in that fashion, but the teachings of Jesus are anything but fear based.
Rooster
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2/6/2013 11:28am
If you are not angry you are at least condescending towards those who have belief in God.


I treat those who believe the same way I would hope they treat me in return.

More often than not, when I tell a person I'm an atheist, they tell me that they feel sorry for me. Who's being condescending in that scenario?

Frankly I'm tired of being blamed for the downfall of society, hurricanes, teenage pregnancies, gay marriage, and whatever else your TV preachers deem fit to blame on the unbelievers this week. If you want to have a frank discussion of religion I'm always game. However, most every time I've tried to have such a discussion, the believer always resorts to the tactic of that if they speak loudly enough, they win the argument. Not exactly an intelligent discourse.

If I'm the calm and rational one during the discussion, who is it that's being angry and condescending? Pointing to passages from a book I hold zero regard for is not empirical evidence. Raising your voice and shouting me down does nothing to bolster your position. Accepting my beliefs as my beliefs and showing them the respect I give yours would further your argument much more.

Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.
2/6/2013 11:41am
FlaNard wrote:
I call bullshit. I admire my dad more then anyone Ive ever known, and I have a fantastic relationship with him. I have a great relationship...
I call bullshit. I admire my dad more then anyone Ive ever known, and I have a fantastic relationship with him. I have a great relationship with my whole family, including my in-laws. I love my father in-law as well. Try again. Just for you guys, I present mother fucking JIM JEFFERIES. Enjoy.

What is bullshit about it? I think the author made a strong case citing several instances. Is it just bullshit in your particular case or bullshit in general.
2/6/2013 11:47am
There isnt a whole lot of difference between the athiests and lemmings. Both think they are absolutely sure they know what is up whether they think their is a god or they are sure their isnt one. There's no way to really prove either way but if you were a betting man, the atheists are where most the money would be. Beliefs are one thing, actions are another. Ive never seen a single religious person that wasnt afraid to die except for maybe a suicide bomber. Thats all the proof I need right there when measuring a persons convictions.

It's only the agnostic that are level headed. They dont know, they know they dont know, they dont care to know, they simply worry about what is in front of them and live their lives guilt free.
2/6/2013 11:51am
Rooster wrote:
[quote]If you are not angry you are at least condescending towards those who have belief in God.[/quote] I treat those who believe the same way I...
If you are not angry you are at least condescending towards those who have belief in God.


I treat those who believe the same way I would hope they treat me in return.

More often than not, when I tell a person I'm an atheist, they tell me that they feel sorry for me. Who's being condescending in that scenario?

Frankly I'm tired of being blamed for the downfall of society, hurricanes, teenage pregnancies, gay marriage, and whatever else your TV preachers deem fit to blame on the unbelievers this week. If you want to have a frank discussion of religion I'm always game. However, most every time I've tried to have such a discussion, the believer always resorts to the tactic of that if they speak loudly enough, they win the argument. Not exactly an intelligent discourse.

If I'm the calm and rational one during the discussion, who is it that's being angry and condescending? Pointing to passages from a book I hold zero regard for is not empirical evidence. Raising your voice and shouting me down does nothing to bolster your position. Accepting my beliefs as my beliefs and showing them the respect I give yours would further your argument much more.

Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.
I agree, but in intellectual circles nowadays the atheists are the ones who use harsh rhetoric not the Deists. Richard Dawkins Christopher Hitchens are prime examples and Bill Maher in pop culture circles as well as the video posted above.
2/6/2013 11:54am
There isnt a whole lot of difference between the athiests and lemmings. Both think they are absolutely sure they know what is up whether they think...
There isnt a whole lot of difference between the athiests and lemmings. Both think they are absolutely sure they know what is up whether they think their is a god or they are sure their isnt one. There's no way to really prove either way but if you were a betting man, the atheists are where most the money would be. Beliefs are one thing, actions are another. Ive never seen a single religious person that wasnt afraid to die except for maybe a suicide bomber. Thats all the proof I need right there when measuring a persons convictions.

It's only the agnostic that are level headed. They dont know, they know they dont know, they dont care to know, they simply worry about what is in front of them and live their lives guilt free.
So do you think there are psychological reasons for militant atheism particularly connected to ones relationship with their father?
J.F.S
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2/6/2013 11:58am
There is not psychology behind being an atheist, only common sense and reasoning. People who blow them selves and other up and stuff are the ones who need a psych evaluation.
jndmx
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2/6/2013 12:01pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2013 12:05pm
I don't think not having a a belief in God necessarily translates to anger, but many atheist do have a lot of anger towards God and...
I don't think not having a a belief in God necessarily translates to anger, but many atheist do have a lot of anger towards God and religion. Many like the paper cited devoted their entire careers to combat it. Look at your original statement though. "Maybe some folks are better at thinking for themselves than others" If you are not angry you are at least condescending towards those who have belief in God.
I think you're assuming that I have no belief in God, you would not be correct.
I like JTom have my own thoughts on who and what God is

The paper you cited starts from the position that "Athiests have an anger towards God because....."
When you set out to prove a single point of view it is not hard to structure your research to prove whatever you like.

Again I point to religous zealots who use violence ands intimidation to prove their own views on God.
That certainly doesn't represent every person of faith either.

Please give me an example of an athiest movement that conquered nations and slaughtered thousands in the name of non-belief.........and Nazi Germany doesn't count as that wasn't the primary aim.
2/6/2013 12:04pm
There isnt a whole lot of difference between the athiests and lemmings. Both think they are absolutely sure they know what is up whether they think...
There isnt a whole lot of difference between the athiests and lemmings. Both think they are absolutely sure they know what is up whether they think their is a god or they are sure their isnt one. There's no way to really prove either way but if you were a betting man, the atheists are where most the money would be. Beliefs are one thing, actions are another. Ive never seen a single religious person that wasnt afraid to die except for maybe a suicide bomber. Thats all the proof I need right there when measuring a persons convictions.

It's only the agnostic that are level headed. They dont know, they know they dont know, they dont care to know, they simply worry about what is in front of them and live their lives guilt free.
So do you think there are psychological reasons for militant atheism particularly connected to ones relationship with their father?
I think if you want to start examining psychological issues, its the militant religious folk that need their heads checked.

I was an athiest at 7 years old. I thought religion was stupid. It didnt make sense. And I laughed at kids at school that believed in it.

By the time I was a teenager and got a lil wiser I decided that agnostic was the more logical choice. But Ive never wavered from my stance that anyone that follows one of the prominent organized religions is handicapping themselves.

Spirituality serves two useful purposes.... it helps calm the people who are scared of what they dont know. And it helps get others thru tragic moments in time, sorta like an emotional crutch for those whom need it. Faith and hope are powerful things and if a person needs to turn to a fable in order to find it in a time of crisis, I wont fault them for it.

But to wonder why atheism exists or to try and dig into the psychology of it and blame poor parenting just seems very hypocritical and/or ironic.
jtomasik
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2/6/2013 12:06pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2013 12:07pm
Granted, I will give you credit for being an equal opportunity religion critic (with the exception of nominal Buddhism). However 99% of all atheist energy is...
Granted, I will give you credit for being an equal opportunity religion critic (with the exception of nominal Buddhism). However 99% of all atheist energy is geared towards the Judeo-Christian understanding of God so I am just going with the common constructs of these discussions.

As far a Christianity being fear based, I understand many have used and abused it in that fashion, but the teachings of Jesus are anything but fear based.
"...However 99% of all atheist energy is geared towards the Judeo-Christian understanding of God so I am just going with the common constructs of these discussions. ...."

The only reason you see atheism being geared towards Judeo-Christian belief is because the majority of the religious here are just that. If a Hindu or a Muslim started posting religious belief on the board in a manner that invites my opinion, I'll treat them just the same, because ALL gods to me are religious, equally man-made, and equally ficticious.


"....As far a Christianity being fear based, I understand many have used and abused it in that fashion, but the teachings of Jesus are anything but fear based....."

Well, not exactly true....

Matthew 5:22
10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


There's a lot of that kind of talk in the new testament. Lots of threats about what happens to those who are/believe different than what Jesus taught. The guys who wrote that were right about one thing....religion separates, not brings people together.
jtomasik
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2/6/2013 12:12pm
jndmx wrote:
I think you're assuming that I have no belief in God, you would not be correct. I like JTom have my own thoughts on who and...
I think you're assuming that I have no belief in God, you would not be correct.
I like JTom have my own thoughts on who and what God is

The paper you cited starts from the position that "Athiests have an anger towards God because....."
When you set out to prove a single point of view it is not hard to structure your research to prove whatever you like.

Again I point to religous zealots who use violence ands intimidation to prove their own views on God.
That certainly doesn't represent every person of faith either.

Please give me an example of an athiest movement that conquered nations and slaughtered thousands in the name of non-belief.........and Nazi Germany doesn't count as that wasn't the primary aim.
Stalin might be one. That guy was a freak. He went after many religious with the intent of wiping it out of his country (which ended up including a good part of Europe).

Now, I'll admit that on the surface, it seems that Stalin was simply anti-religous. However, what he really was was paranoid. He killed anyone who he thought could threaten his power. He killed his own smartest scientists, engineers, doctors, etc., etc., etc. Did you know that he killed more Red Army generals than the Nazis did? Funny (sad) as shit. Estimates are that he might've killed around 40 million people or more!

Oh, Hitler was religious at first, if I remember correctly.
jndmx
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2/6/2013 12:21pm
jtomasik wrote:
Stalin might be one. That guy was a freak. He went after many religious with the intent of wiping it out of his country (which ended...
Stalin might be one. That guy was a freak. He went after many religious with the intent of wiping it out of his country (which ended up including a good part of Europe).

Now, I'll admit that on the surface, it seems that Stalin was simply anti-religous. However, what he really was was paranoid. He killed anyone who he thought could threaten his power. He killed his own smartest scientists, engineers, doctors, etc., etc., etc. Did you know that he killed more Red Army generals than the Nazis did? Funny (sad) as shit. Estimates are that he might've killed around 40 million people or more!

Oh, Hitler was religious at first, if I remember correctly.
Hmmmm good point on Stalin, I always looked at that as more of a power thing than trying to quash a certain set of beliefs.
Same with Hitler.....certainly the anti-Judiasm campaign stands out but that seemed to be wrapped up in the whole nationalism/power thing as well.....and Hitler certainly wasn't trying to convert anyone.

I was speaking more of specific holy war....inquisition, jihad, that sort of thing where the only reason you kill is because the other guy won't believe what you do.

Lotta crazy bastards in the world that is for sure.

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