450's need to go.

Tumblin
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Tumblin 6/6/2012 8:54am
6/6/2012 8:54am
The 450's are amazing machines and I don't expect them to disappear from SX. I think the industry and markets need them. There are as safe and manageable of a Motocrosser as they come in my opinion, very user friendly. But I think for the tight indoors we need to consider shortening the gate by about 5 to 8. Canard, RV were both fighting to not lose sight of the leaders on the start, hence pushing and taking lines they may not of had to if there was more room on that track. Everyone is hanging it out on those first few laps to make the most passes possible. It certainly may not of helped RV or TC, but it's very arguable that it could save a future contendor. I also think it would help the show, by keeping contenders healthy and it's alos very hard to follow the action for newbies when they get so spread out and with the noise most struggle to make sense of that LOUD speaker. Not to mention the trouble the leaders almost always face with lappers, it's both ruined and added to the excitement, but usually is best with out that confusion.
Obviuosy shortening the field will give less opportunity for privateers,....unless we had an additional 125 class to add into the 450 and 250's. It would make for an event most of us would like to see, more riders would move to the front of the purse and we could have a grass-roots class again and grass roots growth for our sport. And most likely fewer injuries for future novices.
Motodude
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Motodude 6/6/2012 7:59pm
6/6/2012 7:59pm Edited Date/Time 6/6/2012 8:06pm
horsepower + garly tracks + hard assed pro riders = high risk racing. Modern mx bikes dont break because of twin spar frames and 100mm forks etc lol. The riders break now.

Ditching 450's for sx might be the plan, bringing back 2 smokers is genius.

Do you start restricting things on competition dirt bikes such as suspension travel, gears??? MX has been the hallmark of motocycle developmen..if anything I would love to see full blown works bike exotica back in elite moto.
Hank_Thrill
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Hank_Thrill 6/6/2012 8:51pm
6/6/2012 8:51pm Edited Date/Time 6/6/2012 9:14pm
450 SPEED AND MENTAL PROCESSING

When guys ride into the "red zone" or "on the limit" it is pretty much like a musician (or, think Guitar-Hero) playing the piano to the edge of his or her ability. When a musician makes a mistake, the only bad thing that happens is a terrible sound. The faster these guys go, and the harder they push one another, the more information their brains are processing, except when they make a mistake, they pay for it physically. This weekend, Jeff Emig was talking how James Stewart is able to mentally process information quicker than most the other riders out on the track, allowing him to go faster. Everyone has probably ridden over their head a time or two, or heard the phrase. When information is coming in faster than the brain can process, the risk for error increases.

Since there are now five guys going for wins and a championship, it really has caused a rapid acceleration of progress in the sport. When I say the progression, mechanics have had to evolve the bikes in order to chase the fastest rabbit setting the pace each year. Riders have also not only pushed themselves to new physical limits, but also to new limits of processing information out on the track.

Slowing the bikes down would not only reduce the impact of riders taking soil samples, like RC mentioned, but it would also allow riders to mentally process information much easier out on the track, similar to backing it down a few difficulty notches on Guitar-Hero, or slowing the tempo while playing an instrument, which would result in greater safety as well.
DirtMAFIA
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DirtMAFIA 6/8/2012 5:34am
6/8/2012 5:34am
450's and 250f's both need to go imo. I have ridden both, the are fun to ride where the 250f doesn't have the power to scare you the 450 does. But my gripe is I'm a 250 2 smoke rider, and i know when i jump on a 250 fffffffff it feels so slow and lazy. but you are moving pretty fast. way easier to ride, I feel SEASONED 2 stroke rider is a better all round rider than those raised on the 4 bang gen. But I feel these bikes have to go because of the crazy prices of maintaining then, I feel bad for the middle class family thats son is racing amatuer classes and is going to lorrettas... The cost is wack! valve adjustments,head jobs, god forbid it locks up!!!
And your average Dad isn't going to even remotely try to work in the 450's or 250's. Bring it back to when all this wasn't so fn CORPORATE and when youd see tons of people at the track, even bikes shoved in cars with someones pop tearing a bike down out of a tool box. The 450 and 250s just suck the life out of your wallet and no one i mean there is no market for USED 4 strokes who wants to buy a Grenade with the Pin half out!!!!!!

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Two Stroke Taliban 6/8/2012 5:45am
6/8/2012 5:45am
DirtMAFIA wrote:
450's and 250f's both need to go imo. I have ridden both, the are fun to ride where the 250f doesn't have the power to scare...
450's and 250f's both need to go imo. I have ridden both, the are fun to ride where the 250f doesn't have the power to scare you the 450 does. But my gripe is I'm a 250 2 smoke rider, and i know when i jump on a 250 fffffffff it feels so slow and lazy. but you are moving pretty fast. way easier to ride, I feel SEASONED 2 stroke rider is a better all round rider than those raised on the 4 bang gen. But I feel these bikes have to go because of the crazy prices of maintaining then, I feel bad for the middle class family thats son is racing amatuer classes and is going to lorrettas... The cost is wack! valve adjustments,head jobs, god forbid it locks up!!!
And your average Dad isn't going to even remotely try to work in the 450's or 250's. Bring it back to when all this wasn't so fn CORPORATE and when youd see tons of people at the track, even bikes shoved in cars with someones pop tearing a bike down out of a tool box. The 450 and 250s just suck the life out of your wallet and no one i mean there is no market for USED 4 strokes who wants to buy a Grenade with the Pin half out!!!!!!
Don't worry. If everything is true about 2014 seeing new Japanese two-strokes, the starting line in the 250 class at Lorettas will be all two strokes that year.
Bob454
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Bob454 6/8/2012 8:01am
6/8/2012 8:01am
DirtMAFIA wrote:
450's and 250f's both need to go imo. I have ridden both, the are fun to ride where the 250f doesn't have the power to scare...
450's and 250f's both need to go imo. I have ridden both, the are fun to ride where the 250f doesn't have the power to scare you the 450 does. But my gripe is I'm a 250 2 smoke rider, and i know when i jump on a 250 fffffffff it feels so slow and lazy. but you are moving pretty fast. way easier to ride, I feel SEASONED 2 stroke rider is a better all round rider than those raised on the 4 bang gen. But I feel these bikes have to go because of the crazy prices of maintaining then, I feel bad for the middle class family thats son is racing amatuer classes and is going to lorrettas... The cost is wack! valve adjustments,head jobs, god forbid it locks up!!!
And your average Dad isn't going to even remotely try to work in the 450's or 250's. Bring it back to when all this wasn't so fn CORPORATE and when youd see tons of people at the track, even bikes shoved in cars with someones pop tearing a bike down out of a tool box. The 450 and 250s just suck the life out of your wallet and no one i mean there is no market for USED 4 strokes who wants to buy a Grenade with the Pin half out!!!!!!
Another pointless argument made by a two stroke weirdo. Again, they are not crazy to maintain and are actually easy to work on. I've raced and maintained 2 four strokes since 2005 on a college student salary. Stop spreading bullshit lies on the net and open your eyes boss.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 6/8/2012 8:24am
6/8/2012 8:24am
I find that when I need my 450 to go, I just turn the throttle and feed it more Fuel.

This works on my KX500, also.

I'm jus' sayin'...
reded
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reded 6/8/2012 9:29am
6/8/2012 9:29am
Bob454 wrote:
Another pointless argument made by a two stroke weirdo. Again, they are not crazy to maintain and are actually easy to work on. I've raced and...
Another pointless argument made by a two stroke weirdo. Again, they are not crazy to maintain and are actually easy to work on. I've raced and maintained 2 four strokes since 2005 on a college student salary. Stop spreading bullshit lies on the net and open your eyes boss.
Bob, you've apparently never had a head job from a big name shop. They're expensive and it's more relaxing with your eyes closed when the work is being performed.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 6/8/2012 9:42am
6/8/2012 9:42am
Bob454 wrote:
Another pointless argument made by a two stroke weirdo. Again, they are not crazy to maintain and are actually easy to work on. I've raced and...
Another pointless argument made by a two stroke weirdo. Again, they are not crazy to maintain and are actually easy to work on. I've raced and maintained 2 four strokes since 2005 on a college student salary. Stop spreading bullshit lies on the net and open your eyes boss.
reded wrote:
Bob, you've apparently never had a head job from a big name shop. They're expensive and it's more relaxing with your eyes closed when the work...
Bob, you've apparently never had a head job from a big name shop. They're expensive and it's more relaxing with your eyes closed when the work is being performed.
And...

Whose fault is that?
DirtMAFIA
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DirtMAFIA 6/8/2012 12:44pm
6/8/2012 12:44pm
DirtMAFIA wrote:
450's and 250f's both need to go imo. I have ridden both, the are fun to ride where the 250f doesn't have the power to scare...
450's and 250f's both need to go imo. I have ridden both, the are fun to ride where the 250f doesn't have the power to scare you the 450 does. But my gripe is I'm a 250 2 smoke rider, and i know when i jump on a 250 fffffffff it feels so slow and lazy. but you are moving pretty fast. way easier to ride, I feel SEASONED 2 stroke rider is a better all round rider than those raised on the 4 bang gen. But I feel these bikes have to go because of the crazy prices of maintaining then, I feel bad for the middle class family thats son is racing amatuer classes and is going to lorrettas... The cost is wack! valve adjustments,head jobs, god forbid it locks up!!!
And your average Dad isn't going to even remotely try to work in the 450's or 250's. Bring it back to when all this wasn't so fn CORPORATE and when youd see tons of people at the track, even bikes shoved in cars with someones pop tearing a bike down out of a tool box. The 450 and 250s just suck the life out of your wallet and no one i mean there is no market for USED 4 strokes who wants to buy a Grenade with the Pin half out!!!!!!
Bob454 wrote:
Another pointless argument made by a two stroke weirdo. Again, they are not crazy to maintain and are actually easy to work on. I've raced and...
Another pointless argument made by a two stroke weirdo. Again, they are not crazy to maintain and are actually easy to work on. I've raced and maintained 2 four strokes since 2005 on a college student salary. Stop spreading bullshit lies on the net and open your eyes boss.
yeah bob another 2 stroke wierdo.... Another cornball i see.. wrenchin since 05='s not much experience and i really sure you had soooo much riding time going to college and working.. I'm talking from a mechanical standpoint If you ride them like they are MEANT to be ridden they are expensive! Thanks for the college prep class squid! my eyes are now open
Bob454
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Bob454 6/8/2012 1:01pm
6/8/2012 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2012 1:02pm
DirtMAFIA wrote:
yeah bob another 2 stroke wierdo.... Another cornball i see.. wrenchin since 05='s not much experience and i really sure you had soooo much riding time...
yeah bob another 2 stroke wierdo.... Another cornball i see.. wrenchin since 05='s not much experience and i really sure you had soooo much riding time going to college and working.. I'm talking from a mechanical standpoint If you ride them like they are MEANT to be ridden they are expensive! Thanks for the college prep class squid! my eyes are now open
I've been wrenching since I started riding in 1993 (when I was 6) if you read my post I mean I have been wrenching on 4 strokes since 05. I cannot prove to you that I "ride them like they are meant to be ridden" but I have raced open A in harescrambles and moto for nearly 5 years....not saying I am national caliber....but I can get around a track. And for your information I rode a shit ton in college, thanks to my friends owning a private track 10 minutes from campus. I put around 100 hours per year on my bikes, and have a routine maintenance schedule that has worked very well. Four stroke motors are really not that complicated for christs sake

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