RV - Flashing Lights - The video

FastEddy
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2/26/2012 7:17am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 7:27am
kongols wrote:
3. White Flag with Red Cross: In Supercross this flag or a red flashing light may be displayed at the beginning of a triple jump or...
3. White Flag with Red Cross:
In Supercross this flag or a red flashing light may be
displayed at the beginning of a triple jump or a series of
jumps. The riders must roll each jump individually with no
passing and exercise extreme caution until they are past the
area of concern.

"displayed at the beginning of a triple jump or a series of
jumps. "


Where exactly was RV at when the lights signaled for him to single that section or the triple?
The thing is ,before he jumped on that step on step off were they already signaling to roll the triple?
If he was committed to that section then there probably isn't much he could have done/should have done other then ride it out.
I'd like to see it from a different angle.
No way he is going to lock em up on the face of that triple or in that section if they just came on to signal for him to single them..
I would assume that is why the AMA ruled the way they did.
Hoov
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2/26/2012 7:24am
Outsider wrote:
How come everybody ignores the fact that the flagger was waving a yellow flag? Anyone who's raced has seen flags as their primary information source on...
How come everybody ignores the fact that the flagger was waving a yellow flag? Anyone who's raced has seen flags as their primary information source on the track. RV comes into the corner and sees a yellow flag and yellow lights, not to mention Dungey jumps the triple so I would think it appears like it's o.k. to jump. He wouldn't have seen the red lights until hitting the gas for the jump. Did he ignore the red lights at that point? IDK, maybe he did.

Bottom line is, they should have been waving the red cross flag in this situation, not the yellow, imo.
kongols wrote:
Yellow flag indicates hazard in front of him and he had to look up and see red lights on a triple. That`s why flagger almost hit...
Yellow flag indicates hazard in front of him and he had to look up and see red lights on a triple. That`s why flagger almost hit him upside his head with that yellow flag. Red cross flag and red lights on a triple is the same fucking thing.

3. White Flag with Red Cross:
In Supercross this flag or a red flashing light may be
displayed at the beginning of a triple jump or a series of
jumps. The riders must roll each jump individually with no
passing and exercise extreme caution until they are past the
area of concern.
Kongols, first, I come at this without interest in who the riders involved were, but rather from the perspective of someone who has held that white flag with red cross at the top of the big jump. Outsider is correct in this situation, the yellow flag that the flagger was waiving does NOT indicate to a rider not to jump...only the red cross flag does that. Also, having red flashing lights at the top of the jump does nothing, only a red cross flag at the bottom of the jump or even further back up track has that impact. I have personally docked Jimmy Gadis many times for jumping on the red cross because Jimmy never looked up before going off the jump...it was just his way and he accepted it each time I did it.
three9zero
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2/26/2012 7:31am
If RV would have landed a few feet father to each side of the BLIND TRIPLE, he would have landed and the downed riders bike and he would have wadded the shit out of himself, been either injured or at least dnf'd the races and lost many positions. If he would have landed on the downed rider of a medical staff and injured or killed one of them he would be the least popular rider in the world. Unless you are retarded or blind, you can see he ignored a yellow flag( "hey there is a yellow flag waving frantically in my face, but fuck it, I'll seat bounce this blind triple anyway") then ignored a flashing red light on the face of the jump and went for it anyhow. He broke the rules, could have seriously injured himself, the downed rider and track workers. He needs to be docked a position at the minimum. I'd be wiling to bet that with RD 5 now that close to RV2 in points,,and the blatant proof of video we will see a protest by the Orange crew or JGR crew by mid today.....
If the AMA does nothing about it, they are useless, and really the series can operate without them.
FastEddy
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2/26/2012 7:33am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 7:35am
They look yellow to me....and he was committed.

The Shop

kongols
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2/26/2012 7:35am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 7:36am
FastEddy wrote:
They look yellow to me....and he was committed. [img]https://i.imgur.com/ZWp9H.png[/img]
They look yellow to me....and he was committed.
Lights in a corner are not supposed to be red. Red lights are on a triple.
FastEddy
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2/26/2012 7:39am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 7:39am
FastEddy wrote:
They look yellow to me....and he was committed. [img]https://i.imgur.com/ZWp9H.png[/img]
They look yellow to me....and he was committed.
kongols wrote:
Lights in a corner are not supposed to be red. Red lights are on a triple.
They weren't even on yet....at this point.
Did the guy on the Honda jump that section? or was that who went down?

kongols
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2/26/2012 7:40am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 7:42am
That`s Dungey. And you can clearly see yellow flag waving in a corner. That means hazard in front. He had to look up and see what kind of hazard and that`s where the red lights are.
MX558
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2/26/2012 7:41am
AMA is a joke, always has been.
FastEddy
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2/26/2012 7:41am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 7:42am
kongols wrote:
That`s Dungey. And you can clearly see yellow flag waving in a corner. That means hazard in front. He had to look up and see what...
That`s Dungey. And you can clearly see yellow flag waving in a corner. That means hazard in front. He had to look up and see what kind of hazard and that`s where the red lights are.
Yeah ,that yellow flag doesn't mean shit though.
And with that being Dungey in front of him and tripling ,he went for it just as Dungey did.
NeWskoolmxer
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2/26/2012 7:41am
They are not going to do a thing to Villo. He is there cash cow with all that Monster BS
kongols
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2/26/2012 7:43am
FastEddy wrote:
Yeah ,that yellow flag doesn't mean shit though. And with that being Dungey in front of him and tripling ,he went for it just as Dungey...
Yeah ,that yellow flag doesn't mean shit though.
And with that being Dungey in front of him and tripling ,he went for it just as Dungey did.
Well we should have started with this kind of attitude then. All the arguments are pointless if you look at it this way.
FastEddy
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2/26/2012 7:49am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 7:53am
FastEddy wrote:
Yeah ,that yellow flag doesn't mean shit though. And with that being Dungey in front of him and tripling ,he went for it just as Dungey...
Yeah ,that yellow flag doesn't mean shit though.
And with that being Dungey in front of him and tripling ,he went for it just as Dungey did.
kongols wrote:
Well we should have started with this kind of attitude then. All the arguments are pointless if you look at it this way.
It's true though....
His eyes were on Dungey looking forward and staying focused I would assume.
He would have to be.
He was committed to that triple when he landed before that single into the corner,you can bet that.
He had to keep his momentum up.
And no way he could have seen the glare of the red lights til he was on the face the jump.
Their not out there rolling around half throttle in first gear like C riders looking at every bump 3 feet away from them.
They are racing faster and farther forward.
kongols
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2/26/2012 7:55am
FastEddy wrote:
It's true though.... His eyes were on Dungey looking forward and staying focused I would assume. He would have to be. He was committed to that...
It's true though....
His eyes were on Dungey looking forward and staying focused I would assume.
He would have to be.
He was committed to that triple when he landed before that single into the corner,you can bet that.
He had to keep his momentum up.
And no way he could have seen the glare of the red lights til he was on the face the jump.
Their not out there rolling around half throttle in first gear like C riders looking at every bump 3 feet away from them.
They are racing faster and farther forward.
I would agree if there was just one lone flagger, but to miss all that disco nightclub....Whistling
Bottom line is he jumped on a red light and AMA for whatever reason did absolutely nothing.
rollingtach
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2/26/2012 7:56am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 7:56am
If he clearly saw it he wouldn't have taken the chance wadding it up and losing the championship lead that night.
FastEddy
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2/26/2012 7:57am
kongols wrote:
I would agree if there was just one lone flagger, but to miss all that disco nightclub....:whistle: Bottom line is he jumped on a red light...
I would agree if there was just one lone flagger, but to miss all that disco nightclub....Whistling
Bottom line is he jumped on a red light and AMA for whatever reason did absolutely nothing.
The only reason I can think of is because he was committed.
That could be the only logical argument I think he would have.
I would assume the AMA/FIM talked to him.
2/26/2012 7:58am
If he clearly saw it he wouldn't have taken the chance wadding it up and losing the championship lead that night.
I'm glad you're hear to speak for RV's subconscious.
kongols
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2/26/2012 8:01am
FastEddy wrote:
The only reason I can think of is because he was committed. That could be the only logical argument I think he would have. I would...
The only reason I can think of is because he was committed.
That could be the only logical argument I think he would have.
I would assume the AMA/FIM talked to him.
That is bullshit argument. So it means rules can be bent in or against certain rider interests?
Myke
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2/26/2012 8:04am
I think he took a chance so he didn't loose Dungy. They are fully aware of everything around them.
ns503
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2/26/2012 8:05am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 8:06am
FastEddy wrote:
It's true though.... His eyes were on Dungey looking forward and staying focused I would assume. He would have to be. He was committed to that...
It's true though....
His eyes were on Dungey looking forward and staying focused I would assume.
He would have to be.
He was committed to that triple when he landed before that single into the corner,you can bet that.
He had to keep his momentum up.
And no way he could have seen the glare of the red lights til he was on the face the jump.
Their not out there rolling around half throttle in first gear like C riders looking at every bump 3 feet away from them.
They are racing faster and farther forward.
kongols wrote:
I would agree if there was just one lone flagger, but to miss all that disco nightclub....:whistle: Bottom line is he jumped on a red light...
I would agree if there was just one lone flagger, but to miss all that disco nightclub....Whistling
Bottom line is he jumped on a red light and AMA for whatever reason did absolutely nothing.
Kind of agreed here.

Even if they had docked him a penalty that would happen to not change the outcome (like a 5 second one), they would have re-inforced the rule that you're not supposed to jump on red lights. With no penalty, they are saying well, OK, sometimes it is OK to jump on a red. Seems like a pretty dangerous precedent to me.
FastEddy
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2/26/2012 8:06am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 8:07am
FastEddy wrote:
The only reason I can think of is because he was committed. That could be the only logical argument I think he would have. I would...
The only reason I can think of is because he was committed.
That could be the only logical argument I think he would have.
I would assume the AMA/FIM talked to him.
kongols wrote:
That is bullshit argument. So it means rules can be bent in or against certain rider interests?
It's not a bullshit argument.
Think about it.
The yellow flags really don't matter in this situation.
The red lights do.
So where do they draw the line?
If a rider is 2nd or 3rd gear wide open on a 450 coming up to the face of a jump should he lock em up if the lights just turn red and risk injury on himself?
Or should he stay committed and hope for the best?
What would you do?
kongols
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2/26/2012 8:10am
FastEddy wrote:
It's not a bullshit argument. Think about it. The yellow flags really don't matter in this situation. The red lights do. So where do they draw...
It's not a bullshit argument.
Think about it.
The yellow flags really don't matter in this situation.
The red lights do.
So where do they draw the line?
If a rider is 2nd or 3rd gear wide open on a 450 coming up to the face of a jump should he lock em up if the lights just turn red and risk injury on himself?
Or should he stay committed and hope for the best?
What would you do?
The lights were on before he made a corner and a flag was up too. He had to at least look up the face of the triple of to why is everybody waving like crazy and the lights are going off like it`s 1999.
FastEddy
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2/26/2012 8:16am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 8:19am
kongols wrote:
The lights were on before he made a corner and a flag was up too. He had to at least look up the face of the...
The lights were on before he made a corner and a flag was up too. He had to at least look up the face of the triple of to why is everybody waving like crazy and the lights are going off like it`s 1999.
So at exactly what point should have he slowed down?
It would have had to be far before that single into the corner I would assume.
He was landing and launching that single,making the corner and WFO over that triple.
It may not look like he was going that fast on the video over that single into the corner....but when you see these guys in person,they are hauling ass.
kongols
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2/26/2012 8:17am
kongols wrote:
The lights were on before he made a corner and a flag was up too. He had to at least look up the face of the...
The lights were on before he made a corner and a flag was up too. He had to at least look up the face of the triple of to why is everybody waving like crazy and the lights are going off like it`s 1999.
FastEddy wrote:
So at exactly what point should have he slowed down? It would have had to be far before that single into the corner I would assume...
So at exactly what point should have he slowed down?
It would have had to be far before that single into the corner I would assume.
He was landing and launching that single,making the corner and WFO over that triple.
It may not look like he was going that fast on the video over that single into the corner....but when you see these guys in person,they are hauling ass.
As soon as he saw red lights.
Hoov
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2/26/2012 8:18am
Ok, after some further thought, here is how I see this as going down. First, if you want the riders not to jump, you throw the red cross flag, not yellow. Second, it is the responsibility of the flagger standing on top of the jump to throw the red cross flag first, as presumably they can see the down rider on the landing. It is then the responsibility of the flagger at the bottom of the jump, or further up track to also throw the red cross flag until such time as the flagger on top of the jump pulls the red cross back. It seems to me that the situation happened so fast and was still developing when RV had to make the decision to jump or not. The flagger at the bottom of the jump was still waiving the yellow flag albeit frantically, due to the fact the timing wouldn't allow him to drop the yellow and throw the red cross in time, or he wasn't getting that signal from the top of the jump. You have to remember that all this is happening "real time" and sometimes there is a grey area where the rules just don't have the luxury of good timing. Also, again I say, red lights at the top of the jump are worthless.
Smitch
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2/26/2012 8:18am
A warning would be appropriate.
jtomasik
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2/26/2012 8:18am
kongols wrote:
The lights were on before he made a corner and a flag was up too. He had to at least look up the face of the...
The lights were on before he made a corner and a flag was up too. He had to at least look up the face of the triple of to why is everybody waving like crazy and the lights are going off like it`s 1999.
Ok, so penalize RV with the 5 seconds, and he still ends up in 2nd place. So the point of arguing this issue is what?
FastEddy
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2/26/2012 8:20am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2012 8:21am
kongols wrote:
As soon as he saw red lights.
When exactly did he first see them?
You get what I'm saying?
Hut
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2/26/2012 8:21am
FastEddy wrote:
So at exactly what point should have he slowed down? It would have had to be far before that single into the corner I would assume...
So at exactly what point should have he slowed down?
It would have had to be far before that single into the corner I would assume.
He was landing and launching that single,making the corner and WFO over that triple.
It may not look like he was going that fast on the video over that single into the corner....but when you see these guys in person,they are hauling ass.
This particular situation was fairly close imho. I can understand an argument why he may not have slowed but I do not understand the lack of penalty. FWIW I am fan of RV and I was cheering for him(from my couch) to get up there and challenge Dungey for the win.
kongols
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2/26/2012 8:21am
jtomasik wrote:
Ok, so penalize RV with the 5 seconds, and he still ends up in 2nd place. So the point of arguing this issue is what?
Where exactly did you see a penalty of 5 seconds for this kind of deal? In Nationals everybody got penalized by positions. Stroupe, Grant. I think there was more.

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