Clarkson on Green Cars

Tiki
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Tiki
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 2:10am

I don't think he cared for it much?
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ShoujoKakumei 5/30/2008 12:23am
5/30/2008 12:23am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:07pm
He has a point about good diesels getting the same mileage - My non-hybrid, non-diesel, automatic transmission Echo gets close to the mileage of the Prius on the highway, is a little less high-tech, and cost about 7 grand less off the lot, so I'm sure there are other small cars that can hit the same thing.


But what I'm wondering is why the relatively low top speed is that terrible? Do that many people really accelerate from 0-60 in 8 seconds and then cruise along going 100? If so, maybe their driving habits ought to change before they buy a new vehicle - they'll probably save enough gas to not _need_ one.



This whole thing strikes me as less of a car review and more of the sarcastic bitching of people who are pissed off that "going green" is trendy and celebrities are all jumping on the bandwagon - his points would be more convincing without the snark.
`ol Ger
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`ol Ger 5/30/2008 3:26am
5/30/2008 3:26am
That was great. I sent it to my nephew.

SK, most people think satire is wonderful when Saturday Night Live does it (or letterman etc.). Is it off limits to the Brits then?

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Cygnus 5/30/2008 6:00am
5/30/2008 6:00am
I want a Volkswagon Lupo . 75 MPG .
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txmxer 5/30/2008 6:32am
5/30/2008 6:32am
Going green should be more than a slogan and doing it wisely should be the goal. The most effective technologies should be the target.

JTomasik has an old Civic that gets 35 mpg...and actually, 45 mpg is probably much better than most folks get w/ a pious.

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jonjon714
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jonjon714 5/30/2008 6:50am
5/30/2008 6:50am
My first car was an 81 Civic (1300cc) 5 speed. Tank of gas lasted forever in that thing. Little tight for back seat lovin though.

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flarider 5/30/2008 7:02am
5/30/2008 7:02am
He's a snarky guy, and funny, and that's his appeal

BTW, no one ever discusses the lifespan of the batteries, replacement cost of the batteries and the environmental disposal of the batteries.
If the car gets smashed in a crash and goes to the junk yard, what's it going to take to properly dispose of a few hundred pounds of batteries?
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xewbx 5/30/2008 9:06am
5/30/2008 9:06am
When I was a kid............we had a VW Rabbit diesel. It got around 45 mpg. My folks put an aux tank in the back under the hatch that held 60 gallons. We'd drive it to Nogales and fill it with mexican diesel at around .25 a gallon. They'd drive that car for 6 months on that.
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jtomasik 5/30/2008 9:24am
5/30/2008 9:24am
It's too bad there aren't more diesels on our roads. That might prime the oil companies to release more crude for diesel production and drop the price of that fuel. My understanding is it's cheaper to produce than gas. Diesels can do great on mileage. Those hybrids are a waste of resource to build and have a limited life due to the batteries. Heck, my POS Honda Civic gets 40mpg.

Anyone know if more diesel can be produced per barrel of crude vs. gas?
Trinitite
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Trinitite 5/30/2008 9:46am
5/30/2008 9:46am
jtomasik wrote:
It's too bad there aren't more diesels on our roads. That might prime the oil companies to release more crude for diesel production and drop the...
It's too bad there aren't more diesels on our roads. That might prime the oil companies to release more crude for diesel production and drop the price of that fuel. My understanding is it's cheaper to produce than gas. Diesels can do great on mileage. Those hybrids are a waste of resource to build and have a limited life due to the batteries. Heck, my POS Honda Civic gets 40mpg.

Anyone know if more diesel can be produced per barrel of crude vs. gas?
I'm not sure, but I don't think it works like that. One barrel of oil can't be used to produce all gas or all diesel because of the hydrocarbon composition. THey refine it out and only portions of that barrel can be made into gas or diesel. Like, just an example, 40% of a barrel can be made into gas, 20% into diesel, etc.

The entire barrel of oil gets used, but only some of it gets used for certain things.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining.htm/printable
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mxmiken 5/30/2008 11:46am
5/30/2008 11:46am
ShoujoKakumei wrote:
He has a point about good diesels getting the same mileage - My non-hybrid, non-diesel, automatic transmission Echo gets close to the mileage of the Prius...
He has a point about good diesels getting the same mileage - My non-hybrid, non-diesel, automatic transmission Echo gets close to the mileage of the Prius on the highway, is a little less high-tech, and cost about 7 grand less off the lot, so I'm sure there are other small cars that can hit the same thing.


But what I'm wondering is why the relatively low top speed is that terrible? Do that many people really accelerate from 0-60 in 8 seconds and then cruise along going 100? If so, maybe their driving habits ought to change before they buy a new vehicle - they'll probably save enough gas to not _need_ one.



This whole thing strikes me as less of a car review and more of the sarcastic bitching of people who are pissed off that "going green" is trendy and celebrities are all jumping on the bandwagon - his points would be more convincing without the snark.
my girlfriend has an ECHO..its a great little car and super gas mlage..i believe around 40 MPH..hell,my 4 cyl nissan truck only gets 21 MPH
ShoujoKakumei 5/30/2008 12:04pm
5/30/2008 12:04pm
`ol Ger wrote:
That was great. I sent it to my nephew. SK, most people think satire is wonderful when Saturday Night Live does it (or letterman etc.). Is...
That was great. I sent it to my nephew.

SK, most people think satire is wonderful when Saturday Night Live does it (or letterman etc.). Is it off limits to the Brits then?

I'm not into most satire anyway.. SNL drives me insane. I think if I was I'd find this more amusing - like I said, I don't entirely disagree with most of what was said, I just find it harder to take seriously because of the way it was presented.
xewbx
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xewbx 5/30/2008 12:17pm
5/30/2008 12:17pm
jtomasik wrote:
It's too bad there aren't more diesels on our roads. That might prime the oil companies to release more crude for diesel production and drop the...
It's too bad there aren't more diesels on our roads. That might prime the oil companies to release more crude for diesel production and drop the price of that fuel. My understanding is it's cheaper to produce than gas. Diesels can do great on mileage. Those hybrids are a waste of resource to build and have a limited life due to the batteries. Heck, my POS Honda Civic gets 40mpg.

Anyone know if more diesel can be produced per barrel of crude vs. gas?
Thank the EPA for that.........they killed the diesel engine in the consumer auto market by creating nearly impossible emissions requirements.

If diesel engines had been exempted from emissions in consumer auto's back in the 80's......we'd all be driving 50 mpg cars today with the associated lower emissions achieved by burning less fuel.

If I was king.........first thing I would due is change the entire emissions model. I'd set fuel efficiency standards first..........and tie emissions to that. For gas and diesel

For example,

4 passenger sub compacts and compacts that achieve greater than 45 mpg......emission exempt.

Mid size sedans.........40 mpg

Light trucks..........35 mpg

Then, we starting putting the screws on that........phase in another 1 mpg improvement in 3 years or something.


The carrot to encourage the industry to make engines more efficient..........let efficiency drive emissions......not the other way around.

If we'd have started out that way instead of the way we did......................we would all be driving super efficient cars already. Can you imagine how many billions of gallons of oil would still be in the ground if we had done that?

BTW, that's Jimmy Carter's fault. His leftist agenda from 4 decades ago.................is still fucking American's out of cheap efficient cars.

Remember that when y'all go huntin' fer "change".
Phlapjax
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Phlapjax 5/30/2008 1:30pm
5/30/2008 1:30pm
xewbx wrote:
Thank the EPA for that.........they killed the diesel engine in the consumer auto market by creating nearly impossible emissions requirements. If diesel engines had been exempted...
Thank the EPA for that.........they killed the diesel engine in the consumer auto market by creating nearly impossible emissions requirements.

If diesel engines had been exempted from emissions in consumer auto's back in the 80's......we'd all be driving 50 mpg cars today with the associated lower emissions achieved by burning less fuel.

If I was king.........first thing I would due is change the entire emissions model. I'd set fuel efficiency standards first..........and tie emissions to that. For gas and diesel

For example,

4 passenger sub compacts and compacts that achieve greater than 45 mpg......emission exempt.

Mid size sedans.........40 mpg

Light trucks..........35 mpg

Then, we starting putting the screws on that........phase in another 1 mpg improvement in 3 years or something.


The carrot to encourage the industry to make engines more efficient..........let efficiency drive emissions......not the other way around.

If we'd have started out that way instead of the way we did......................we would all be driving super efficient cars already. Can you imagine how many billions of gallons of oil would still be in the ground if we had done that?

BTW, that's Jimmy Carter's fault. His leftist agenda from 4 decades ago.................is still fucking American's out of cheap efficient cars.

Remember that when y'all go huntin' fer "change".
bullshit, the diesel engine is alive and well. There are diesel enignes in on-road trucks that are already beating the emissions standards that have been put in place for the next few years still getting the fuel economy you desire. It all comes down to the OOE of an engine. Some companies think it takes more to keep a diesel clean than it is for batteries.
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kdx man 5/30/2008 1:43pm
5/30/2008 1:43pm
I always thought the reason nobody wanted to drive a diesel is cause it was a diesel. The car manufacturers have a lot of them in Europe that are not available in the states. Audi, VW, BMW, etc all have efficient diesel engines that sell great across the pond.

I'm glad all these dumb soccer moms with giant ford expeditions and whatnot are crying the blues right now because of gas prices. They could have easily gotten a small hatchback style car that does more than twice the mpg but like every other American, bigger is better.



I thought Clarkson's commentary was pretty good. That is his style. Great show, the only one that I tivo and watch religiously.
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jtomasik 5/30/2008 1:47pm
5/30/2008 1:47pm
Mercedes is big into diesels, too. I guess there are pretty many diesel autos in Europe. Supposedly the Mercedes get around 50mpg. I love the diesel in my pickup. Stick a huge load on it, drive it like ya stole it, and it still gets 15mpg. Behavior like that in any comparable gas engine would stick you down into the single digit mpg's.
xewbx
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xewbx 5/30/2008 1:48pm
5/30/2008 1:48pm
xewbx wrote:
Thank the EPA for that.........they killed the diesel engine in the consumer auto market by creating nearly impossible emissions requirements. If diesel engines had been exempted...
Thank the EPA for that.........they killed the diesel engine in the consumer auto market by creating nearly impossible emissions requirements.

If diesel engines had been exempted from emissions in consumer auto's back in the 80's......we'd all be driving 50 mpg cars today with the associated lower emissions achieved by burning less fuel.

If I was king.........first thing I would due is change the entire emissions model. I'd set fuel efficiency standards first..........and tie emissions to that. For gas and diesel

For example,

4 passenger sub compacts and compacts that achieve greater than 45 mpg......emission exempt.

Mid size sedans.........40 mpg

Light trucks..........35 mpg

Then, we starting putting the screws on that........phase in another 1 mpg improvement in 3 years or something.


The carrot to encourage the industry to make engines more efficient..........let efficiency drive emissions......not the other way around.

If we'd have started out that way instead of the way we did......................we would all be driving super efficient cars already. Can you imagine how many billions of gallons of oil would still be in the ground if we had done that?

BTW, that's Jimmy Carter's fault. His leftist agenda from 4 decades ago.................is still fucking American's out of cheap efficient cars.

Remember that when y'all go huntin' fer "change".
Phlapjax wrote:
bullshit, the diesel engine is alive and well. There are diesel enignes in on-road trucks that are already beating the emissions standards that have been put...
bullshit, the diesel engine is alive and well. There are diesel enignes in on-road trucks that are already beating the emissions standards that have been put in place for the next few years still getting the fuel economy you desire. It all comes down to the OOE of an engine. Some companies think it takes more to keep a diesel clean than it is for batteries.
Uhhhhh, yeah. I have one of those........an '08 Dmax. It's not half bad mileage wise for a 3/4 ton truck........and I can get 2 to 4 more mpg's out of it by pulling the DPF (that's part of the emissions system BTW). If you would have paid attention........you'd see where I specified "consumer autos". Not to be confused with "light trucks". Merriam may be able to help you with this apparent reading comprehension problem you have.

If we had spent the last 30 years with efficiciency as a goal, instead of meeting government mandated emissions standards........my Dmax would be getting 30 mpg.

Now.........google up the list of auto's in the US sold in '07 and '08 with high mpg diesel engines.

How many did you find?

In 1980, we had 45 mpg diesel cars, they couldnt' be sold today.....because they can't meet the emissions. In 2008 we have????

So......there's your bullshit. Maybe next time you should do a little research before you open your mouth.

Class is now dismissed.
Tiki
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Tiki 5/30/2008 3:40pm
5/30/2008 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:08pm
Google this: 2009 EPA emissions requirements to diesel engines
You will be amazed. The EPA is going to starve us to death due to retrofitting the transportation industry to meet standards thus adding the cost of transportation even Higher then $10 a gallon of diesel.

Reminder 1: Bush kicked the EPA in the nads and told them to STFU
Reminder 2: This is the same shit that's killing two cycle motors.

What is and what should be are two completely different things.

Don't worry, everyone in America are Millionaires. We can afford to do this.

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