USPS insolvent?

72kiteboarder
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:53am
Not according to my local post office.

All the postal workers at my local branch are swearing up and down that the whole ruckus about the Postal Service not making money is complete BS. They say that they are making a hefty profit and that the entire reason that this is being played by the politicians is that homeland security really, really wants to read our mail. By keeping our mail with the USPS, the government and specifically Homeland Security has absolutely zero chance of reading or opening our mail. But if it were privatized, they could use the Patriot Act to get into our mail.

Anyone else hear anything about this?
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jndmx
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9/8/2011 7:49am
I think this is more about declaring themselves insolvent so that they can get out of those hefty pension payments.
9/8/2011 8:06am
Would anybody under 60 care if the USPS disappeared tomorrow?
kaw rider9
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9/8/2011 8:12am
Would anybody under 60 care if the USPS disappeared tomorrow?
I would. I pay all my bills with a check and send through snail mail.

I'm old fashion that way!
lumpy790
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9/8/2011 8:13am
Would anybody under 60 care if the USPS disappeared tomorrow?
I would care.

The Shop

9/8/2011 8:17am Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 8:19am
Ok, anybody under 45? How about if you just got mail service once or twice a week? I could get by on once a month and not even notice the difference.
kaw rider9
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9/8/2011 8:26am
Ok, anybody under 45? How about if you just got mail service once or twice a week? I could get by on once a month and...
Ok, anybody under 45? How about if you just got mail service once or twice a week? I could get by on once a month and not even notice the difference.
I'm 35.

I could get by with two or three days a week service. I NEED snail mail. I don't trust electronic banking. Let me write a check and send it through the mail. It's worked very well for me and no one has hacked into my check book and takin' funds.
dougie
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9/8/2011 8:30am
I need my netflix fix 2x a week. But then Im over 60 and my opinion doesnt count Wink
SteveS
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9/8/2011 9:26am
I use the mail and wish to continue.
9/8/2011 9:34am
No different than its parent company the USA.
Frogman
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9/8/2011 9:53am
No different than its parent company the USA.
Was going to say...name any government sponsored effort that isn't mismanaged or bankrupt.
9/8/2011 12:49pm
The post office should be completely funded by user fees (stamps.) I don't use that shit and shouldn't have to pay for it.
9/8/2011 1:14pm
Please speak.
huck
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9/8/2011 1:19pm
TripleFive wrote:
Please speak.
Obviously you're fresh out of school... Let me ask you...should people with no kids not have to pay taxes that go to schools?
9/8/2011 1:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 1:27pm
TripleFive wrote:
Please speak.
huck wrote:
Obviously you're fresh out of school... Let me ask you...should people with no kids not have to pay taxes that go to schools?
Well, I'm for the full privatization of schools because it's a cheaper, more efficient, more effective way to educate our youth. That's besides the point so I'll play along.

Yes, I'm alright with paying property taxes which fund our schools because, as a citizen of the United States, a more educated populous benefits society as a whole.


I am not sure how the USPS benefits ME. The only things I get in the mail are advertisements which I end up paying for...

Should I have to pay for subsidies for the UPS and FedEx as well?
huck
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9/8/2011 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 1:53pm
TripleFive wrote:
Well, I'm for the full privatization of schools because it's a cheaper, more efficient, more effective way to educate our youth. That's besides the point so...
Well, I'm for the full privatization of schools because it's a cheaper, more efficient, more effective way to educate our youth. That's besides the point so I'll play along.

Yes, I'm alright with paying property taxes which fund our schools because, as a citizen of the United States, a more educated populous benefits society as a whole.


I am not sure how the USPS benefits ME. The only things I get in the mail are advertisements which I end up paying for...

Should I have to pay for subsidies for the UPS and FedEx as well?
You summed up your whole mentality with this comment... "I'm not sure how it benefits ME"...

Why should I pay for social security, when I won't need it?
Why should I pay for medicare, when I don't use it?
Why should I pay for the public liberary, when I don't go there?
Why should I pay for a memorial at Ground Zero, when I haven't been there?
9/8/2011 1:55pm
Before I let you distract me from the actual debate, answer me this:

What's wrong with having the cost of postage reflect the actual cost of delivering post?
72kiteboarder
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9/8/2011 2:00pm
TripleFive wrote:
The post office should be completely funded by user fees (stamps.) I don't use that shit and shouldn't have to pay for it.
According to my local post office it is. They said that the USPS get zero tax dollars.
9/8/2011 2:10pm
TripleFive wrote:
The post office should be completely funded by user fees (stamps.) I don't use that shit and shouldn't have to pay for it.
According to my local post office it is. They said that the USPS get zero tax dollars.
That might be true for operational costs but I'd imagine the public employee benefits amount to much more. This is all speculation on my part.
Sondy132001
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9/8/2011 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 2:34pm
TripleFive wrote:
The post office should be completely funded by user fees (stamps.) I don't use that shit and shouldn't have to pay for it.
According to my local post office it is. They said that the USPS get zero tax dollars.
Cut Saturday delivery and close down the PO's that dont pay for themselves. Our PO in MIssion Viejo is packed solid and their clientele is over a 6 mile radius, they always have lines. But some po-dunk PO that has two workers ? close it down and send the people to the next closest one ! It's just a matter of stream-lining it and making it more profitable !

S
Titan1
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9/8/2011 2:39pm
TripleFive wrote:
The post office should be completely funded by user fees (stamps.) I don't use that shit and shouldn't have to pay for it.
According to my local post office it is. They said that the USPS get zero tax dollars.
Cut Saturday delivery and close down the PO's that dont pay for themselves. Our PO in MIssion Viejo is packed solid and their clientele is over...
Cut Saturday delivery and close down the PO's that dont pay for themselves. Our PO in MIssion Viejo is packed solid and their clientele is over a 6 mile radius, they always have lines. But some po-dunk PO that has two workers ? close it down and send the people to the next closest one ! It's just a matter of stream-lining it and making it more profitable !

S
As I understand and I could be wrong, but the union's won't allow them to do that.

I think a larger part of the problem is that you've got janitors that sit around for 8 hours/day making 20/hour, full benefits, full pension. Then you've got all of retired employees pulling that pension....it gets expensive.
9/8/2011 3:14pm
Labor cost of postal service 81% UPS labor cost 66% fedex labor cost 45% guess which one is non union.
9/8/2011 4:15pm
Why are we racing to see who can become impoverished first? We seem to be set on the destruction of the middle class.
9/8/2011 5:52pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 5:54pm
"Digging a little deeper provides the truth: the USPS is subsidized. One need only refer to the 2005 annual report to get some illustrative numbers. A line item showing as "U.S. government appropriations — received" lists an amount of $503 million. The 2003 annual report shows a similar line item with a similar heading. That line item lists an amount of $762 million. Call me a nitpicker, but those listings both sound suspiciously like, well, government appropriations, A.K.A. taxpayer investment, to me. Looking further into the 2005 annual report we find this.

"We commenced operations on July 1, 1971, in accordance with the provisions of the Postal Reorganization Act (the Act). The equity that the U.S. government held in the former Post Office Department became our initial capital. We valued the assets of the former Post Office Department at original cost less accumulated depreciation. The initial transfer of assets, including property, equipment and cash, totaled $1.7 billion. Subsequent cash contributions and transfers of assets between 1972 and 1982 totaled approximately $1.3 billion, resulting in total government contributions of approximately $3 billion.'"

http://www.lewrockwell.com/alston/alston21.html
9/9/2011 6:57am
Sorry for killing this thread...
SteveS
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9/9/2011 7:58am
Just to note. That paper was in 1984. It states in its Foreword that in 1970 laws were passed with the intent of making the USPS a self-sustaining enterprise. For those of you old enough to remember, that was when stamps went from being single digit prices to double digit, and they've had a comparatively sharp increase since then. The USPS also has taken on the package companies and express delivery companies to try to regain revenue. That's all good business.

But you'll also note that it's not the day-to-day operations that cripple the business and require subsidy from the taxpayer. I quote from the 1984 article, "Of particular note are the costs of health and pension benefits for USPS retiress. The USPS now covers only two-thirds of these personnel costs, and the federal government covers the balance in 'indirect subsidies.'"

The situation 37 years later is only worse. And whom do we have to thank for situations like this? Government employee labor unions might be a strong suspect. They already had gotten these benefits from the USPS before the USPS was forced to become self-sustaining. But over time, despite an increase in postage costs of 733% (an inflation rate of almost 20%) they still cannot afford the retired employee benefits package.

So what's the albatross around their neck? Not the mail delivery side of the equation, I would submit.


We are going to see this more and more as time goes by in our perma-recession. All the labor "benefits" were accepted by management on a cost-deferred basis. That came from the idea of the country having a never-ending expansion of its economy (a Ponzi scheme, if you will). But we are now in an era of economic contraction. The GDP only grows relative to increasing population, and per capita it's decreasing. But the labor benefits for retiress continues to expand at an exponential rate.

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