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While Obama is in office, no one is allowed to mention Bush or his fuck ups because "Obama's President now"
But when discussing Bush, IT IS OK to blame Clinton for any fuck ups even though Bush was President for eight years
Right?
The Shop
Now Mr. Change is perpetuating previous mistakes and making his own. More of the same results in more of the same. Obama owns this mess now
"Same as it Ever was."
Clintons dot com boom/bust (if Bush is responsible for the house boom/bust, then clinton is responsible for the dot com boom/bust), AND the WTC attacks (Clinton had a shot to kill bin laden....and Bush had only been in office for 9 months when they happened....if Obama isn't to blame for anything that happened his first year, neither is bush) laid the ground work for historically low interest rates.
The historically low rates started the housing price increase.
the housing prices increasing sparked the investor interest
Investor interest further increased housing prices
Rapidly increasing home prices, made bankers realize they can make loans to borrowers with weaker and weaker qualifications.
The lower the lending standards the more people will qualify.
The more people that qualify the faster home prices go up.
The faster home prices go up the lower the lending standards get.
Do you see?
Anyway, without the dot com crash, and without the WTC attacks rates wouldn't have been as low as they were. Without the low rates you don't see the home appreciation. Without the home appreciation you don't get the low lending standards. Without the low lending standards you don't get the foreclosures. Without the foreclosures you don't get this recession.
Bush is getting the blame for clintons mess....Obama is getting the blame for Bushes mess which is really clintons mess. Clinton was just lucky enough to get out while the getting was good, and looks like a hero as a result. If he had been in office one more year he'd be looked at much the same way Bush is (the dot com crash would have happened on his watch, as would have the WTC attacks).
You can scroll through the history books and see it there throughout time. We are good with a goal...but, once humanity achieves a level of satisfaction and comfort we start to flounder.
Even though that is how we got here, that is unmentionable.
Why is that?
BTW, I was out in August of 08' and haven't returned except for some random day trading.
Maybe the problem is that they don't agree when you want to lay it all on Bush. There were presidents before Bush. Hell, you were the most vocal opponent to laying anything on Clinton when Bush was in office...you understand more than I do why it is.
I've read that shit a BUNCH of times on here, if you say you have not, you're either a liar or you ignore it
I got back in when the rebound happened. It's been sitting in neutral for a while. Lots of bad news. But, then there are sprinklings of good news here and there. Anyway, I just don't have a good feeling about what I'm seeing and hearing, so I got out.
We know there's still more garbage from the bubble to come. That's bad.
But, I hear orders for trucks is on the rise. Car sales are up. People are doing new jobs...have cut costs. Saving more. There are some positives. It will take a while to sort it out.
20 years? Who knows. I kind of like to sense the overall direction and follow the trends. A 401k isn't flexible enough to respond to daily news...I just try to be in it as much as practical for overall trend.
All I said was I don't know who you are talking about. I didn't say it didn't happen. I don't have all day to writes names on paper and keep score.
America asked for longer terms and easier financing when they should have been getting more money.
75 Grand needs to be minimum wage. At least in CA.
69 K is Poverty Line in the county I'm in.
So if you make 75 grand, you're barely getting by.
Why do you think cars have 5-7 year loans? People dont make any fuckin money! WIthout it, they'd be riding bicycles.
OR Horses, Mules, etc
Home sales
This is a good illustration of why I don't think that government stimulus works. The people that got tax credits were going to buy a home anyway. They just did it sooner. So now we get the reality. People that think that dipping water out of one end of a pond and then pouring into the other end, accomplishes anything, are being gamed. They only see the video of the "new" water being poured in. They didn't see it getting dipped out.
I'm just pointing out that Clinton did/allowed some things that made the housing boom/bust possible, and the housing bust caused this recession.
What I think the stimulus does is it's kind of like a tourniquet. It's not going to solve your problem, but hopefully you won't die until you get proper treatment.
My problem with what's been done is the government hasn't done anything to prevent things from getting fucked up again. The wolves are licking their chops and all these pennies the average joe is putting back are the fresh meat that Wall Street is looking for.
Pit Row
Total Fuckin' DEREGULATION of the Banking/Investment System...as we've known it since the fuckin' DEPRESSION had NOTHIING to do with ANY AND ALL of this?
Really?
Glass-Steagall...Repealed in 1999...under Sec. Treas. Rubin's guidance; yet, another wonderful leader brought to you by Goldman Sachs...Both PARTIES were involved in this P.O.S.
Some of you need to get a fuckin' clue...
It was once the WMD thing was found to be bullshit and the Iraq war being a farce that I began to say it was Bush's fuck up and he was the man in charge and the buck stopped with him.
It is OBVIOUS that any President is going to have to deal with the shit from the predecessor for at least the first few years and to say that you cannot discuss or blame that predecessor for the conditions the sitting President has to deal with is just plain bullshit.
You forget, or weren't here, I supported Bush up to 9-11, through 9-11, his invasion of Afghanistan, his march to war in iraq, all the propaganda and the eventual invasion and occupation.
It wasn't until much later when it became obvious it was all bullshit about Iraq that I began to question Bush and laid the blame at his feet as Commander in Chief and that the buck stops with him.
That would be late 2003/early 2004.....almost 4 yrs into his Presidency
People have been saying in regards to this administration since day one to not blame Bush since Obama is President now, as if all Bush did isn't relevant....that we somehow got to this point and position though osmosis
Don Pardo, tell him what he's won.
So we disagree on when the presidents policies, those proposed and those passed through legislaltion, have an effect. I can live with that.
Regulation of the stock market was how the beast was corralled.
Repealing Glass-Steagall opened the corral gates, and the beast was set free to eat what ever it wanted, and shit where ever it wanted.
Now, once fertile fields are decimated, and the tax payers are left shoveling the shit.
by the way if your looking for a good investment to replace stocks....Life Settlements!
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