BP relief wells within 200'

WhKnuckle
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Edited Date/Time 1/23/2012 2:36pm
Holy cow, BP is reporting that one of their relief wells is within 200' of the blown out well. That's freakin' amazing. From MSNBC.com:

"Kent Wells, senior vice president of exploration and production, said the first relief well being drilled is within 200 feet of the blown-out well. The aim is for one or both relief wells to intersect with the leaking well to pump in heavy drilling fluids and cement."

How'd they do that so fast? If that information is accurate, that's a real accomplishment. I don't know what their exact strategy is, but they could conceivably be trying to kill the well in mid-July.
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500guy
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6/18/2010 3:32pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Holy cow, BP is reporting that one of their relief wells is within 200' of the blown out well. That's freakin' amazing. From MSNBC.com: "Kent Wells...
Holy cow, BP is reporting that one of their relief wells is within 200' of the blown out well. That's freakin' amazing. From MSNBC.com:

"Kent Wells, senior vice president of exploration and production, said the first relief well being drilled is within 200 feet of the blown-out well. The aim is for one or both relief wells to intersect with the leaking well to pump in heavy drilling fluids and cement."

How'd they do that so fast? If that information is accurate, that's a real accomplishment. I don't know what their exact strategy is, but they could conceivably be trying to kill the well in mid-July.
it's just a crazy deal, Hopefully they get it capped off soon.
Nielsen277
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6/18/2010 3:35pm
LOL yes, they are 200 hundred feet away.

But it won't be ready until mid to late July.
SteveS
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6/18/2010 4:16pm
Haven't they said from the very beginning that the relief well would be ready by August? And that they started on it right from the beginning?
jmar
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6/18/2010 4:21pm
Nielsen277 wrote:
LOL yes, they are 200 hundred feet away.

But it won't be ready until mid to late July.
So are they using a better casing process on this well?

The Shop

txmxer
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6/18/2010 4:21pm
Sam, why couldn't they have just put a cap on that thing with an open valve and then once attached, close the valve?

Or, if that's not feasible due to back pressure, but a Y on it...valve on one end, pipe going to the surface on the other side (with valve). Drop Y on top, open valve to surface, close valve to gulf...produce well.

Just curious if you know of a reason something simple like that would not work.
WhKnuckle
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6/18/2010 4:25pm
SteveS wrote:
Haven't they said from the very beginning that the relief well would be ready by August? And that they started on it right from the beginning?
Yeah, I can't figure out how they got so close so fast. Only one of the two wells is that close, but normally only one well is necessary anyway. I wonder if they're going to hold up there, set some casing and just hold up until the other well is closer before they try to finish out and pump the kill mud.

If things get really bad - and they might - I'm jazzed that they have one well so close. I worked on a couple of relief wells and we killed the blowout both times, no problem. It's scary stuff, though.
SteveS
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6/18/2010 4:27pm
When they pump the mud into the relief well, have they drilled laterally to position the drill casing under the blown well or does the mud have to find its way over there on its own?
WhKnuckle
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6/18/2010 5:20pm
txmxer wrote:
Sam, why couldn't they have just put a cap on that thing with an open valve and then once attached, close the valve? Or, if that's...
Sam, why couldn't they have just put a cap on that thing with an open valve and then once attached, close the valve?

Or, if that's not feasible due to back pressure, but a Y on it...valve on one end, pipe going to the surface on the other side (with valve). Drop Y on top, open valve to surface, close valve to gulf...produce well.

Just curious if you know of a reason something simple like that would not work.
They're very concerned about the structural integrity of the wellbore, and if you stop or even restrict the flow of oil out of the well, then the pressure in the entire well will equalize with the pressure of the reservoir, which could easily be 10,000 to 20,000 PSIG. Such pressures would likely rupture the casing and feed that high pressure into shallow formations, which won't hold it, and will allow the oil and formation material to blow out around the blowout preventers, creating a huge hole in the ground with uncontrolled formation fluids blowing out. I was always very worried about any effort to simply shut off the well for that reason - in my opinion, you want the oil to flow unrestricted to prevent dangerous pressure buildup in the well. Full downhole pressure applied to the entire well structure can literally push the whole casing assembly out of the well.

I worked on a well that took such a strong gas kick that the gas pressure in the well was pushing a 100,000# set of drill pipe and collars up and out of the well - we chained the drill string down to the drill floor with chains that looked like battleship anchor chains with the BOPs closed and the choke WFO and pumped mud as fast as we could to push the gas back and reestablish control. All the time, the drill crew walked around the outside of the rig location to see if any gas was coming out of the ground outside the well - if it did, we'd have abandoned the whole thing and just let it blow. It's pretty cool now, but that was a long few days hoping we'd be alive at the end of our shifts.

As far as using a Y like you suggest (which is a logical approach), to produce a well you have to choke it down to prevent it from flowing so fast that it erodes the wellhead, and then of course you wind up building back pressure so you're right back in the same boat.
txmxer
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6/18/2010 5:23pm
that's kind of what I figured. You had mentioned the back pressure issues before.

But, I'm not certain I understand how the back pressure would be problem in a solution like I mentioned versus the BOP.
WhKnuckle
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6/18/2010 5:27pm
SteveS wrote:
When they pump the mud into the relief well, have they drilled laterally to position the drill casing under the blown well or does the mud...
When they pump the mud into the relief well, have they drilled laterally to position the drill casing under the blown well or does the mud have to find its way over there on its own?
If at all possible, they'll drill directly into the original wellbore, just above the reservoir, and try to pump mud fast enough to fill up the wellbore with mud. The weight of the mud column will exert enough pressure on the reservoir pressure that they'll balance and the oil will be pushed back. Then, when the well is in a static, balanced state, they'll pump LOTS of cement into the well and just plug it up. Then it's all over.

Drilling directly into the original wellbore is a pretty good trick since the target is about 7" in diameter and of course you can't "see" where you're going. But in this case, there's casing in the original wellbore so they can use tools that detect magnetic fields and direct the drill bit toward the casing.

They'll then redirect the relief well to the reservoir and make that a production well.

If nothing catastrophic happens before the relief well(s) are drilled, they should be able to kill this thing.

Oil exploration is the greatest, most interesting industrial thing I've ever been involved in. It's fascinating stuff.
WhKnuckle
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6/18/2010 5:36pm
txmxer wrote:
that's kind of what I figured. You had mentioned the back pressure issues before. But, I'm not certain I understand how the back pressure would be...
that's kind of what I figured. You had mentioned the back pressure issues before.

But, I'm not certain I understand how the back pressure would be problem in a solution like I mentioned versus the BOP.
The BOP is a staged situation - there's an annular seal that they can close and pump mud via a kill line and allow mud to circulate back out via a choke line, which can be opened or closed to hold a specific back pressure. Then there are pipe rams that can be closed to try to prevent all the mud from being blown out of the well. Finally, there are shear rams that can be closed and simply crush all the pipe and seal everything off. Anytime they close the shear rams with no mud in the well, they're taking a very big chance. When there is no mud in the well, full reservoir pressure is exerted on the entire wellbore, and that's always very dangerous. As long as there's some mud in the well, there's at least SOME balancing pressure represented by the weight of the mud against the formation pressure. Most wells won't tolerate full reservoir pressure against the entire well structure - they need some kind of balancing fluid column.

In this case, there's no mud in the well.

The whole art of well control is to try to keep as much mud in the well as you can - the more mud you lose, the less control you have and the more formation pressure is exerted against the well structure, and the higher the chance of an underground blowout, which is very, very hard to fix - and usually just blow out until the reservoir depletes. That's not good when the reservoir is known to be as HUGE as this one - maybe one of the top 5 individual reservoirs in the entire world.

I hope this makes sense.
txmxer
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6/18/2010 5:41pm
it does. Nothing is ever as simple as it looks.
prillernut
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6/18/2010 7:37pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2010 7:38pm
holy crap!! that is amazing -
PD441
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6/18/2010 8:32pm
WhKnuckle - I really appreciate your insight. Seriously.

Do we really think this is going to work? I don't. I have this sick feeling this incident will kill the Gulf and seriously damage the Atlantic for a long damn time.

And I'm an optimist.
jmar
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6/18/2010 9:04pm
PD441 wrote:
WhKnuckle - I really appreciate your insight. Seriously. Do we really think this is going to work? I don't. I have this sick feeling this incident...
WhKnuckle - I really appreciate your insight. Seriously.

Do we really think this is going to work? I don't. I have this sick feeling this incident will kill the Gulf and seriously damage the Atlantic for a long damn time.

And I'm an optimist.
I have that same feeling. I don't think the government or BP has been straight with us from day one, and I don't think they giving us all the details still today. I think they know the relief wells aren't going to work, but after they give it their best try, they will use the wells to collect more oil as they are doing now.

I hope that I am wrong.

jmar
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6/18/2010 9:16pm
txmxer wrote:
that's kind of what I figured. You had mentioned the back pressure issues before. But, I'm not certain I understand how the back pressure would be...
that's kind of what I figured. You had mentioned the back pressure issues before.

But, I'm not certain I understand how the back pressure would be problem in a solution like I mentioned versus the BOP.
WhKnuckle wrote:
The BOP is a staged situation - there's an annular seal that they can close and pump mud via a kill line and allow mud to...
The BOP is a staged situation - there's an annular seal that they can close and pump mud via a kill line and allow mud to circulate back out via a choke line, which can be opened or closed to hold a specific back pressure. Then there are pipe rams that can be closed to try to prevent all the mud from being blown out of the well. Finally, there are shear rams that can be closed and simply crush all the pipe and seal everything off. Anytime they close the shear rams with no mud in the well, they're taking a very big chance. When there is no mud in the well, full reservoir pressure is exerted on the entire wellbore, and that's always very dangerous. As long as there's some mud in the well, there's at least SOME balancing pressure represented by the weight of the mud against the formation pressure. Most wells won't tolerate full reservoir pressure against the entire well structure - they need some kind of balancing fluid column.

In this case, there's no mud in the well.

The whole art of well control is to try to keep as much mud in the well as you can - the more mud you lose, the less control you have and the more formation pressure is exerted against the well structure, and the higher the chance of an underground blowout, which is very, very hard to fix - and usually just blow out until the reservoir depletes. That's not good when the reservoir is known to be as HUGE as this one - maybe one of the top 5 individual reservoirs in the entire world.

I hope this makes sense.
The whole art of well control is to try to keep as much mud in the well as you can - the more mud you lose, the less control you have and the more formation pressure is exerted against the well structure, and the higher the chance of an underground blowout, which is very, very hard to fix - and usually just blow out until the reservoir depletes. That's not good when the reservoir is known to be as HUGE as this one - maybe one of the top 5 individual reservoirs in the entire world.

I think that might already be the case.
WhKnuckle
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6/19/2010 3:57am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:28pm
PD441 wrote:
WhKnuckle - I really appreciate your insight. Seriously. Do we really think this is going to work? I don't. I have this sick feeling this incident...
WhKnuckle - I really appreciate your insight. Seriously.

Do we really think this is going to work? I don't. I have this sick feeling this incident will kill the Gulf and seriously damage the Atlantic for a long damn time.

And I'm an optimist.
jmar wrote:
I have that same feeling. I don't think the government or BP has been straight with us from day one, and I don't think they giving...
I have that same feeling. I don't think the government or BP has been straight with us from day one, and I don't think they giving us all the details still today. I think they know the relief wells aren't going to work, but after they give it their best try, they will use the wells to collect more oil as they are doing now.

I hope that I am wrong.

I think it'll work. Relief wells are drilled all the time, although this well has special problems like a history of losing mud into the formation and a possible badly displaced lower casing (I think the last string of casing was pushed up).

I think in the beginning, BP wasn't truthful about their situation, particularly in the amount of oil leaking, and even now I don't think they're helping their own case by not being honest about the fact that they're concerned about the structural integrity of the wellbore and that's why they don't want to restrict the oil flow - they need to play it straight and tell the public, "No, we don't WANT to stop the oil. If we do, we risk a disastrous underground blowout, and there's no certain fix for that." BP has also done a poor job of engineering capture systems - they should have designed one that would capture much higher volumes right from the start because they knew the well would flow more oil as time went on - that may have been a result of their apparent desire to lowball their estimates of the amount of oil escaping. When company politics starts to intrude on engineering, that's a bad thing. Overall, this isn't a situation in which the company can get a passing grade with the public because a passing grade means you fix the leak and clean up the mess, and that's simply impossible in a short period of time. I don't feel bad for BP, though -they were horribly irresponsible in drilling the well in the first place, their irresponsibility killed 11 men, and they deserve whatever comes their way. It's a shame for smaller shareholders and pension funds that invested in BP, but that's the way it goes when you're depending on stocks for the money you live on.
WhKnuckle
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6/19/2010 4:09am
If an underground blowout occurs, they'll try to drill the relief wells into the reservoir near the wellbore and start pumping cement into it. For the reservoir to push fluids into the Mancado wellbore, the reservoir has to have permeability - fluids have to be able to flow from one place to another. Reservoirs aren't empty spaces, they're very, very hard rock with tiny fissures that allow fluid flow (and pores that hold oil). If they can get enough cement to flow into the formation, they may be able to reduce the permeability to near-zero and stop the flow. That's probably one of the reasons they drilled two relief wells, so they could pump cement from both sides of the Mancado wellbore. It's not a great situation because you'd rather pump cement into a static system, where nothing is moving, so it can set up correctly, but that's what they'll try.
WhKnuckle
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6/19/2010 4:37am
Sorry to post on this again, but there's some slivers of silver linings in this dark cloud. Our country isn't going to stop needing oil for decades, and as long as we're drilling we're also risking blowouts in deep water, so anything that can be done to mitigate the effects or avoid the blowouts is a plus. From this event, we've learned:

(1) You never, ever scrimp on well design and drilling execution, no matter how far behind schedule you are or what it costs.
(2) We've learned a lot about capture systems and how to deploy them if you have a situation like this, where you need to let the oil flow but also need to keep it out of the water;
(3) Several new techniques have been developed to corral the oil and use reverse osmosis oil/water separators to retrieve the oil from the ocean, such as Kevin Costner's invention;
(4) Using dispersants really just makes it harder to corral the oil and we shouldn't do that;
(5) When drilling in deep water, wells should be drilled in pairs so one could be used as a relief well for the other in case of a blowout (field development always entails multiple wells anyway, so it's just a matter of coordination to drill in pairs);
(6) The deepwater industry has no future if it appears incompetent in dealing with things like this. With the stakes being so high, the development of better management and repair systems will become the next big exploration push.
(7) Ultimately, we have to wean the country off of oil and move it toward natural gas/electric vehicles as a first step, coupled with lifestyle changes that simply require less travel for mundane daily events like employment.

It's a shame that we have to have something like this to wake up and smell the coffee, but it's always like that. We continued bad farming practices unil the Dust Bowl; we continued bad shipping practices and single-hull tankers until the Exxon Valdez; we continued dumping industrial waste into rivers until Love Canal. We only seem to react to disaster, we never seem to forsee disaster and head it off. But at least we DO react.
SteveS
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6/19/2010 5:49am
It is true that necessity is the mother of invention. So many of the things we are learning have only come because of the necessity. In addition, I'd say it would have been impossible to develop and test the kinds of capture and containment systems they are using until there had been such an event.
jmar
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6/19/2010 6:14am
WhKnuckle wrote:
Sorry to post on this again, but there's some slivers of silver linings in this dark cloud. Our country isn't going to stop needing oil for...
Sorry to post on this again, but there's some slivers of silver linings in this dark cloud. Our country isn't going to stop needing oil for decades, and as long as we're drilling we're also risking blowouts in deep water, so anything that can be done to mitigate the effects or avoid the blowouts is a plus. From this event, we've learned:

(1) You never, ever scrimp on well design and drilling execution, no matter how far behind schedule you are or what it costs.
(2) We've learned a lot about capture systems and how to deploy them if you have a situation like this, where you need to let the oil flow but also need to keep it out of the water;
(3) Several new techniques have been developed to corral the oil and use reverse osmosis oil/water separators to retrieve the oil from the ocean, such as Kevin Costner's invention;
(4) Using dispersants really just makes it harder to corral the oil and we shouldn't do that;
(5) When drilling in deep water, wells should be drilled in pairs so one could be used as a relief well for the other in case of a blowout (field development always entails multiple wells anyway, so it's just a matter of coordination to drill in pairs);
(6) The deepwater industry has no future if it appears incompetent in dealing with things like this. With the stakes being so high, the development of better management and repair systems will become the next big exploration push.
(7) Ultimately, we have to wean the country off of oil and move it toward natural gas/electric vehicles as a first step, coupled with lifestyle changes that simply require less travel for mundane daily events like employment.

It's a shame that we have to have something like this to wake up and smell the coffee, but it's always like that. We continued bad farming practices unil the Dust Bowl; we continued bad shipping practices and single-hull tankers until the Exxon Valdez; we continued dumping industrial waste into rivers until Love Canal. We only seem to react to disaster, we never seem to forsee disaster and head it off. But at least we DO react.
Put me down as believing that BP already has blow out problems, and they know it. They have already pumped way more mud into this thing than what it should have taken to plug this well. There is one thing that you and I agree 100% on, and that is that every decision, and every action to date, has been more about keeping their stock price up, and not about being honest, and doing what is best to stop this leak. As you have heard me state before, wall street is running a broken system, but that is an entirely different discussion. .

WhKnuckle
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6/19/2010 6:16am
SteveS wrote:
It is true that necessity is the mother of invention. So many of the things we are learning have only come because of the necessity. In...
It is true that necessity is the mother of invention. So many of the things we are learning have only come because of the necessity. In addition, I'd say it would have been impossible to develop and test the kinds of capture and containment systems they are using until there had been such an event.
Sure, they could have developed and tested them easily. They didn't do it because they weren't forced to. We could say that it's obvious they needed them, it's obvious that they had a moral duty to develop them beforehand, but then we'd be assuming huge multinational corporations have some mechanism that would guide them to moral and ethical decisions. They do not. The only functional mechanisms in corporations is to push up stock prices. That's all they do. Expecting moral and ethical decisions from these huge corporations is like expecting my cat to learn to speak English.
jmar
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6/19/2010 6:24am
SteveS wrote:
It is true that necessity is the mother of invention. So many of the things we are learning have only come because of the necessity. In...
It is true that necessity is the mother of invention. So many of the things we are learning have only come because of the necessity. In addition, I'd say it would have been impossible to develop and test the kinds of capture and containment systems they are using until there had been such an event.
I'd say it would have been impossible to develop and test the kinds of capture and containment systems they are using until there had been such an event.

The learning curve on this blunder is going to be very costly to all of us.

There are two types of technology. There is the type where a bunch of people decide things are correct, because they have came up with a quantum math equation that proves it to be so, even though it's never put into place to either pass or fail. Then there's the type of technology that is put to the test and it either works, or it doesn't..

This is a fine example of our capabilities when it comes to real technology.
FlickitFlat
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6/19/2010 6:53am
WhKnuckle wrote:
Sorry to post on this again, but there's some slivers of silver linings in this dark cloud. Our country isn't going to stop needing oil for...
Sorry to post on this again, but there's some slivers of silver linings in this dark cloud. Our country isn't going to stop needing oil for decades, and as long as we're drilling we're also risking blowouts in deep water, so anything that can be done to mitigate the effects or avoid the blowouts is a plus. From this event, we've learned:

(1) You never, ever scrimp on well design and drilling execution, no matter how far behind schedule you are or what it costs.
(2) We've learned a lot about capture systems and how to deploy them if you have a situation like this, where you need to let the oil flow but also need to keep it out of the water;
(3) Several new techniques have been developed to corral the oil and use reverse osmosis oil/water separators to retrieve the oil from the ocean, such as Kevin Costner's invention;
(4) Using dispersants really just makes it harder to corral the oil and we shouldn't do that;
(5) When drilling in deep water, wells should be drilled in pairs so one could be used as a relief well for the other in case of a blowout (field development always entails multiple wells anyway, so it's just a matter of coordination to drill in pairs);
(6) The deepwater industry has no future if it appears incompetent in dealing with things like this. With the stakes being so high, the development of better management and repair systems will become the next big exploration push.
(7) Ultimately, we have to wean the country off of oil and move it toward natural gas/electric vehicles as a first step, coupled with lifestyle changes that simply require less travel for mundane daily events like employment.

It's a shame that we have to have something like this to wake up and smell the coffee, but it's always like that. We continued bad farming practices unil the Dust Bowl; we continued bad shipping practices and single-hull tankers until the Exxon Valdez; we continued dumping industrial waste into rivers until Love Canal. We only seem to react to disaster, we never seem to forsee disaster and head it off. But at least we DO react.
Beside #7 comment about leaning toward natural gas, I agree with everything you say. Natural gas isn't much better. In fact, baring a disaster, I'd say they are much worst on a regular basis. Directional drilling and hydro fracturing plays major havoc on a water table. 5 acre well locations with wells every 40 acre, fresh water in brine out.
WhKnuckle
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6/19/2010 8:04am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:28pm
Beside #7 comment about leaning toward natural gas, I agree with everything you say. Natural gas isn't much better. In fact, baring a disaster, I'd say...
Beside #7 comment about leaning toward natural gas, I agree with everything you say. Natural gas isn't much better. In fact, baring a disaster, I'd say they are much worst on a regular basis. Directional drilling and hydro fracturing plays major havoc on a water table. 5 acre well locations with wells every 40 acre, fresh water in brine out.
I may be wrong, but I think you're describing coal seam gas. That's a very specific technique that uses shallow wells (
jmar
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6/19/2010 8:17am
Beside #7 comment about leaning toward natural gas, I agree with everything you say. Natural gas isn't much better. In fact, baring a disaster, I'd say...
Beside #7 comment about leaning toward natural gas, I agree with everything you say. Natural gas isn't much better. In fact, baring a disaster, I'd say they are much worst on a regular basis. Directional drilling and hydro fracturing plays major havoc on a water table. 5 acre well locations with wells every 40 acre, fresh water in brine out.
WhKnuckle wrote:
I may be wrong, but I think you're describing coal seam gas. That's a very specific technique that uses shallow wells (
Big gas is no different than big oil. In fact, big oil is in the process of buying all the gas they can.

Different product, same greedy people.
WhKnuckle
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jmar wrote:
Big gas is no different than big oil. In fact, big oil is in the process of buying all the gas they can. Different product, same...
Big gas is no different than big oil. In fact, big oil is in the process of buying all the gas they can.

Different product, same greedy people.
That may be true, but all corporations are run by greedy, amoral people. And the country is run by corporations. When Reagan said, "Governement isn't the solution, government is the problem", he elevated the interests of corporations above the interests of the American people, and we'll never turn that around. To me, it's just a question of whether or not we want to continue to go down the path of oil dependence when we don't have nearly enough oil available in our country, under our own control; or whether we want to depend on natural gas, which is cleaner, cheaper and is under our control.
jmar
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6/19/2010 9:06am
natural gas, which is cleaner, cheaper and is under our control.

And it should stay that way. I have no problems with companies making good profits, but I do have a problem when they gouge. Especially when the gas comes from a field that is owned by the federal government or us taxpayers.
brlatm
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6/19/2010 8:15pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
I may be wrong, but I think you're describing coal seam gas. That's a very specific technique that uses shallow wells (
Yes that is 100% correct if we are stimulating or fracturing an actual gas well there is no damage at all to the water table. I have worked in all the areas you have described except for the Appalacia and yes those little 100' wells the only thing we ever used to frac was just natural water and HHP (Hydraulic Horsepower). I have never pumped any type of chemical or otherwise down one of those things, so therefore no formation damage or damage to the existing water table and everyone is happy.

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