Roncada on DMXS

Ramrod
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Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 7:31pm
Anyone catch his interview on DMXS last Wednesday?

Sounds like the mobile phone gaming market is killing the console market because games can be made quick and cheaply. He said it takes something like $20 million to make a console game and for a small market of core mx'rs, it's hard to justify making a game. Dang!

So if someone made a game it would take just over 300,000 copies just to break even at $65/game. Not sure how many get sold to make it worthwhile.
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8/27/2012 2:56pm
sack up and buy a pc and play mx sim. best money you will spend on a mx game guaranteed.
Ramrod
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8/27/2012 6:03pm
nwrider82 wrote:
It would actually be around 750,000 copies just to break even, [url=http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/anatomy-of-a-60-dollar-video-game.html]a publisher only makes around $27/game[/url].
It would actually be around 750,000 copies just to break even, a publisher only makes around $27/game.
That's a lot of copies!

Wish a studio could buy reflex for cheap and tune it up for under 5 mil and publish it. Could make that back easy.
MR. X
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8/28/2012 7:03pm
sack up and buy a pc and play mx sim. best money you will spend on a mx game guaranteed.
I wish i had the time to play it enough to get good at it let alone a legit race. I played it shortly and it just seems like such a huge learning curve.

The Shop

tobz
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8/29/2012 3:24pm
MR. X wrote:
I wish i had the time to play it enough to get good at it let alone a legit race. I played it shortly and it...
I wish i had the time to play it enough to get good at it let alone a legit race. I played it shortly and it just seems like such a huge learning curve.
I wouldn't worry about it.

The "who cares just buy mx sim, it's the be all end all" reply is the standard for any thread that has nothing to do with mx sim.
8/30/2012 12:51am
Agreed. Though I think JLV does awesome work and I totally appreciate it, MXS isn't for everyone. I want an AMA game with AMA riders and decent AI, full points series and at least somewhat realistic gameplay without needing to spend months playing it to stay upright.

I've always said playing MxS is ten times harder than riding in real life and it shouldn't be that difficult. Over time, I'm decent at it but honestly I'd be fine with MX Alive physics and control with the full points series, authentic bikes/riders/teams and AI of MUD. (And yeah, MUDs gameplay is way too simple and arcade but it did get all the other stuff right, ironically.)
nwrider82
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8/30/2012 2:23am
This a perfect example of why Ouya is such an awesome idea. It lowers the barrier to entry of console game development considerably.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 2XL make an mx game for it. It runs Android so they could just port their current Android games over and crank the graphics up a little bit.
mxjef
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8/30/2012 4:35pm
nwrider82 wrote:
This a perfect example of why [url=http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console]Ouya[/url] is such an awesome idea. It lowers the barrier to entry of console game development considerably. I wouldn't be...
This a perfect example of why Ouya is such an awesome idea. It lowers the barrier to entry of console game development considerably.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 2XL make an mx game for it. It runs Android so they could just port their current Android games over and crank the graphics up a little bit.
That sounds like our best chance of getting a MX game.
Hope it works out!
Ramrod
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8/30/2012 8:22pm
Maybe THQ should just get their head out of their ass and just release the supposed supercross tracks they made for dlc on Alive so we can buy them. I'll pay $50 for 20 tracks. Easy money...
8/31/2012 10:33am
You should be able to get the tracks or return the game for full price, they lied.
8/31/2012 10:39am Edited Date/Time 8/31/2012 10:46am
tobz wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it. The "who cares just buy mx sim, it's the be all end all" reply is the standard for any thread that...
I wouldn't worry about it.

The "who cares just buy mx sim, it's the be all end all" reply is the standard for any thread that has nothing to do with mx sim.
thats because someone will say, "man i wish we had a new mx game". but they wont support the best one out. makes zero fucking sense.
you act like i have an affiliation with the game or something. im not benefiting at all by getting more noobs on the game. why would i lie about its awesomeness.
someone must be mad they a goon at sim. Whistling
8/31/2012 10:45am Edited Date/Time 8/31/2012 10:47am
Agreed. Though I think JLV does awesome work and I totally appreciate it, MXS isn't for everyone. I want an AMA game with AMA riders and...
Agreed. Though I think JLV does awesome work and I totally appreciate it, MXS isn't for everyone. I want an AMA game with AMA riders and decent AI, full points series and at least somewhat realistic gameplay without needing to spend months playing it to stay upright.

I've always said playing MxS is ten times harder than riding in real life and it shouldn't be that difficult. Over time, I'm decent at it but honestly I'd be fine with MX Alive physics and control with the full points series, authentic bikes/riders/teams and AI of MUD. (And yeah, MUDs gameplay is way too simple and arcade but it did get all the other stuff right, ironically.)
harder than real life? how do you figure? there is no repercussion for crashing. makes learning sx tracks way easier than in real life. lol
and AMA game? like an ama series? full points series? realistic game play? dude. the only thing you asked for that isnt in this game is the AI. which suck ass on any game anyways. MXsim has every ama track replicated. and had a full 250 and 450 sx and mx season. where have you been? the races are even live streamed. and there are prizes.
edit: i forgot to mention the real bikes and gear. and continuous patches to make the game better. which one was just released this week that helped optimize the game for better frame rate.
Shawn142
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8/31/2012 11:20am
harder than real life? how do you figure? there is no repercussion for crashing. makes learning sx tracks way easier than in real life. lol and...
harder than real life? how do you figure? there is no repercussion for crashing. makes learning sx tracks way easier than in real life. lol
and AMA game? like an ama series? full points series? realistic game play? dude. the only thing you asked for that isnt in this game is the AI. which suck ass on any game anyways. MXsim has every ama track replicated. and had a full 250 and 450 sx and mx season. where have you been? the races are even live streamed. and there are prizes.
edit: i forgot to mention the real bikes and gear. and continuous patches to make the game better. which one was just released this week that helped optimize the game for better frame rate.
Salesman of the year. I suck balls at the game but I do think it lives up to the hype if you have the graphics cranked. The difficulty is very scale-able, if you can't stay on 2 wheels then crank up the stability.

It's not as sleek a package as everyone really wants, but the content is all there. You just have to learn some marginal computer skills and be a little more flexible.
8/31/2012 11:30am
with this new update, i was able to run last night national with all the good models and stuff, completely maxed. 1024x1024 and all my sliders up. and was still getting over 100 fps.

also to note, this next sx season, for the replica series (which means you sign up, run timed qualifying to make top 40, race heats, lcqs and mains on replica tracks) will have a license system, which means its going to give more people the opportunity to be able to race these sx races. i think its "pro, A, B & C" classes.
tobz
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8/31/2012 3:40pm
tobz wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it. The "who cares just buy mx sim, it's the be all end all" reply is the standard for any thread that...
I wouldn't worry about it.

The "who cares just buy mx sim, it's the be all end all" reply is the standard for any thread that has nothing to do with mx sim.
thats because someone will say, "man i wish we had a new mx game". but they wont support the best one out. makes zero fucking sense...
thats because someone will say, "man i wish we had a new mx game". but they wont support the best one out. makes zero fucking sense.
you act like i have an affiliation with the game or something. im not benefiting at all by getting more noobs on the game. why would i lie about its awesomeness.
someone must be mad they a goon at sim. Whistling
Not at all, i'm more than capable of running fairly good clean leaps.

Some people confuse the game with being real hard to master (as in, you can't even idle through a corner without sliding out for the first 15 minutes of firing it up), to thinking that it is spot on realistic. To put it simply, it's not the most fun mx game i've played, has the feel of a mid 90's game, and i got real sick and tired of the immature kiddy mx sim community. Bobbing up in 99% of any other thread that's not about mx sim boasting that it's the best thing since sliced bread is getting pretty long in the tooth, we get it.
8/31/2012 4:48pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2012 5:20pm
tobz wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it. The "who cares just buy mx sim, it's the be all end all" reply is the standard for any thread that...
I wouldn't worry about it.

The "who cares just buy mx sim, it's the be all end all" reply is the standard for any thread that has nothing to do with mx sim.
thats because someone will say, "man i wish we had a new mx game". but they wont support the best one out. makes zero fucking sense...
thats because someone will say, "man i wish we had a new mx game". but they wont support the best one out. makes zero fucking sense.
you act like i have an affiliation with the game or something. im not benefiting at all by getting more noobs on the game. why would i lie about its awesomeness.
someone must be mad they a goon at sim. Whistling
tobz wrote:
Not at all, i'm more than capable of running fairly good clean leaps. Some people confuse the game with being real hard to master (as in...
Not at all, i'm more than capable of running fairly good clean leaps.

Some people confuse the game with being real hard to master (as in, you can't even idle through a corner without sliding out for the first 15 minutes of firing it up), to thinking that it is spot on realistic. To put it simply, it's not the most fun mx game i've played, has the feel of a mid 90's game, and i got real sick and tired of the immature kiddy mx sim community. Bobbing up in 99% of any other thread that's not about mx sim boasting that it's the best thing since sliced bread is getting pretty long in the tooth, we get it.
are you implying that im a kid? kiddy community is pretty accurate. but you may not be aware that most of the bikes and gear come from that kiddy community. so i think ill put up with it. Smile also, what kind of community do you expect a console game to have?
theres plenty of older folks that play the game. theres also voice chat that i guess alot of newer people wouldnt know about. you have to download teamspeak. you can even set up your own and hang around and talk with people you want. instead of anyone thats in the room being able to talk. offers alot more control.
im curious as to why you get the mid 90s feel from it? its certainly getting better with time. its ever evolving. and terrain shadders i think is the next big thing. lets hope then the visuals will be more appealing to you. it still wont look like a cartoon though like MvA and MUD, if thats what you are after.
im sorry that you are so bothered by me bringing it up in all these "i wish we had a good mx game" threads. but im just spreading light that there is a good mx game. "it"s the best thing since sliced bread" of mx games is a very accurate statement.

so in short, incase you are just skimming this nonsense, could you tell me the CONS in your mxsim experience?


also, what is your in game name?
9/1/2012 11:50pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2012 11:51pm
To each his own. I really like MXS so no one has to sell me on the game as it does have it's place and merits. However, playing myself against sbarrington and a lot of other real people that are not pros on a replica track is all fine and good but it is NOT like playing me playing as my favorite riders and having those epic battles....Reed vs Stewart or RV2 vs RD5. That is all I am saying. I want to play as my favorite riders on a real track with a real points series with all the other real riders competing in that same points series. Simple as that.

Just like if I am playing NHL13 or Madden 13. I could care less about throwing me out there as QB for the Redskins. Because, let's face it. It ain't going to happen and that, my friends, is the ultimate display of being unrealistic. However, playing as RG3 will be great. I'm sure you can get my analogy.

But hey, I see the good in almost all MX games so I'm not hating on any of them.
9/2/2012 4:33pm
To each his own. I really like MXS so no one has to sell me on the game as it does have it's place and merits...
To each his own. I really like MXS so no one has to sell me on the game as it does have it's place and merits. However, playing myself against sbarrington and a lot of other real people that are not pros on a replica track is all fine and good but it is NOT like playing me playing as my favorite riders and having those epic battles....Reed vs Stewart or RV2 vs RD5. That is all I am saying. I want to play as my favorite riders on a real track with a real points series with all the other real riders competing in that same points series. Simple as that.

Just like if I am playing NHL13 or Madden 13. I could care less about throwing me out there as QB for the Redskins. Because, let's face it. It ain't going to happen and that, my friends, is the ultimate display of being unrealistic. However, playing as RG3 will be great. I'm sure you can get my analogy.

But hey, I see the good in almost all MX games so I'm not hating on any of them.
i get what you are saying now. i mean, theres replica bikes and rider gear, so that you could come into the server as ryan villopoto or chad reed, but the single player deal isnt there like you want. but IMO, single player against AI on any game seems to suck. thats why i like multiplayer, on any game. for example, games like battlefield, i wish they would just ditch the single player crap and not charge as much for the games or put that time in development somewhere else in multiplayer. like more stock maps.
9/3/2012 3:34am Edited Date/Time 9/3/2012 3:42am
are you implying that im a kid? kiddy community is pretty accurate. but you may not be aware that most of the bikes and gear come...
are you implying that im a kid? kiddy community is pretty accurate. but you may not be aware that most of the bikes and gear come from that kiddy community. so i think ill put up with it. Smile also, what kind of community do you expect a console game to have?
theres plenty of older folks that play the game. theres also voice chat that i guess alot of newer people wouldnt know about. you have to download teamspeak. you can even set up your own and hang around and talk with people you want. instead of anyone thats in the room being able to talk. offers alot more control.
im curious as to why you get the mid 90s feel from it? its certainly getting better with time. its ever evolving. and terrain shadders i think is the next big thing. lets hope then the visuals will be more appealing to you. it still wont look like a cartoon though like MvA and MUD, if thats what you are after.
im sorry that you are so bothered by me bringing it up in all these "i wish we had a good mx game" threads. but im just spreading light that there is a good mx game. "it"s the best thing since sliced bread" of mx games is a very accurate statement.

so in short, incase you are just skimming this nonsense, could you tell me the CONS in your mxsim experience?


also, what is your in game name?
Its not on console,

I have to download things to make it more realistic. have to have a decent computer. I can't play it easily while drunk or drinking
Dirt_Dawg
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9/8/2012 6:55pm
Ramrod wrote:
Anyone catch his interview on DMXS last Wednesday? Sounds like the mobile phone gaming market is killing the console market because games can be made quick...
Anyone catch his interview on DMXS last Wednesday?

Sounds like the mobile phone gaming market is killing the console market because games can be made quick and cheaply. He said it takes something like $20 million to make a console game and for a small market of core mx'rs, it's hard to justify making a game. Dang!

So if someone made a game it would take just over 300,000 copies just to break even at $65/game. Not sure how many get sold to make it worthwhile.
20 million? i find that hard to believe.
Shawn142
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9/9/2012 9:06am
Dirt_Dawg wrote:
20 million? i find that hard to believe.
Buying a game engine for a current generation console so the game doesn't look like ass? Roughly 5 million. Leasing a building, equipment, and hiring a decent contract staff for at least a year? I'd say at least another 5, probably more. Good people don't work cheap and it would take more than a few. Marketing, publishing, shipping.. I'd say 20 million is on the low side.

You guys are asking for a tailor made game marketed in a very specific direction. The NASCAR franchise has changed hands a few times because it's difficult to make money with. IRL and other national TV series don't have dedicated console games. Until 2010 not even F1 had a passable excuse for one. There's a reason for that. It costs a ton of money to make these games and they don't often sell.
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9/9/2012 9:20am
Dirt_Dawg wrote:
20 million? i find that hard to believe.
Shawn142 wrote:
Buying a game engine for a current generation console so the game doesn't look like ass? Roughly 5 million. Leasing a building, equipment, and hiring a...
Buying a game engine for a current generation console so the game doesn't look like ass? Roughly 5 million. Leasing a building, equipment, and hiring a decent contract staff for at least a year? I'd say at least another 5, probably more. Good people don't work cheap and it would take more than a few. Marketing, publishing, shipping.. I'd say 20 million is on the low side.

You guys are asking for a tailor made game marketed in a very specific direction. The NASCAR franchise has changed hands a few times because it's difficult to make money with. IRL and other national TV series don't have dedicated console games. Until 2010 not even F1 had a passable excuse for one. There's a reason for that. It costs a ton of money to make these games and they don't often sell.
If thats the case i dont think we will ever see another console mx game.
9/10/2012 4:22am
If that is the case then how did Blackbean/Milestone do it?? I don't really agree with MUD's arcade approach but the fact is they developed it, released it and it has a COMPLETE FULL FIM license. They did it and they are a pretty small team of about 35 employees. And no matter what you want to say about their arcade gameplay approach (which I, again, wish was more simulation like or at least Alive/Reflex like) the game is chock full of authenticity when it comes to real riders, bikes, teams, gear, tracks and a real poinst series. And we haven't seen that much authenticity in a MX game since EA's Supercross 2000 for N64/PSX. And MUD has way more, actually.

Makes you wonder how. Check out my post for more detailed discussion.
Ramrod
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9/10/2012 7:30pm
Dirt_Dawg wrote:
If thats the case i dont think we will ever see another console mx game.
Are video game costs pricing themselves out of the market? Seems that's why the market is booming for games for our phones and tablets.

Maybe an mx game need to be outsourced to India or wherever and made for a lower cost so they can make a profit, I don't know.

It seems hopeless.

Why doesn't THQ just release those sx tracks for Alive they supposedly had ready to go when they pulled the plug. Easy cash for them.
the_wood109
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9/11/2012 1:12am Edited Date/Time 9/11/2012 1:36am
Ramrod wrote:
Anyone catch his interview on DMXS last Wednesday? Sounds like the mobile phone gaming market is killing the console market because games can be made quick...
Anyone catch his interview on DMXS last Wednesday?

Sounds like the mobile phone gaming market is killing the console market because games can be made quick and cheaply. He said it takes something like $20 million to make a console game and for a small market of core mx'rs, it's hard to justify making a game. Dang!

So if someone made a game it would take just over 300,000 copies just to break even at $65/game. Not sure how many get sold to make it worthwhile.
Dirt_Dawg wrote:
20 million? i find that hard to believe.
A large part of the budget for any AAA console/PC game is advertising. Phone/tablet games haven't gotten that stupid with their marketing budgets....yet.

As I've said, you can make a game for nothing if you have people that are passionate about making a game, and don't mind not getting paid. People throw around these large numbers, which I'm sure works fine for NFL, NBA, NHL, or a PGA game. A simple market analysis would reveal that there isn't the revenue in making an MX game on that kind of a budget.

For example, I would be curious to hear how much money the MX Sim developer has invested in the game. I'm guessing it is the most profitable MX game to be released in a long time.

A game like Battlefield or Call of Duty can afford to spend 100 million on advertising, but they are such household names in gaming, I wonder if they really need to and if it really benefits all that much.

*edit* I'm not sure about the guy that came up with the 5 million to lease a game engine, but unreal engine is around 350k with royalties or 750k without royalties. Not cheap, but a long way from 5 million.


This from the Unreal ModDB page:

Only a week after Unity announced the free use of their engine for indie and mod teams, Epic Games has unveiled UDK UNREAL DEVELOPMENT KIT (clever name that) for use by indie and mod teams. While the choice of tools and engines available to mod and indie developers increases by the day, traditionally engines the magnitude and relevance of UE have been out of the reach of smaller teams due to licensing costs edging close to a million.

http://www.moddb.com/engines/unreal-engine-3/news/unreal-engine-3-free-…
Ramrod
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9/11/2012 7:10pm
A large part of the budget for any AAA console/PC game is advertising. Phone/tablet games haven't gotten that stupid with their marketing budgets....yet. As I've said...
A large part of the budget for any AAA console/PC game is advertising. Phone/tablet games haven't gotten that stupid with their marketing budgets....yet.

As I've said, you can make a game for nothing if you have people that are passionate about making a game, and don't mind not getting paid. People throw around these large numbers, which I'm sure works fine for NFL, NBA, NHL, or a PGA game. A simple market analysis would reveal that there isn't the revenue in making an MX game on that kind of a budget.

For example, I would be curious to hear how much money the MX Sim developer has invested in the game. I'm guessing it is the most profitable MX game to be released in a long time.

A game like Battlefield or Call of Duty can afford to spend 100 million on advertising, but they are such household names in gaming, I wonder if they really need to and if it really benefits all that much.

*edit* I'm not sure about the guy that came up with the 5 million to lease a game engine, but unreal engine is around 350k with royalties or 750k without royalties. Not cheap, but a long way from 5 million.


This from the Unreal ModDB page:

Only a week after Unity announced the free use of their engine for indie and mod teams, Epic Games has unveiled UDK UNREAL DEVELOPMENT KIT (clever name that) for use by indie and mod teams. While the choice of tools and engines available to mod and indie developers increases by the day, traditionally engines the magnitude and relevance of UE have been out of the reach of smaller teams due to licensing costs edging close to a million.

http://www.moddb.com/engines/unreal-engine-3/news/unreal-engine-3-free-…
What exactly is the engine the game needs? Maybe a dumb question but I just play the games and don't know the technical aspects of the game.
the_wood109
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9/12/2012 12:33am
A large part of the budget for any AAA console/PC game is advertising. Phone/tablet games haven't gotten that stupid with their marketing budgets....yet. As I've said...
A large part of the budget for any AAA console/PC game is advertising. Phone/tablet games haven't gotten that stupid with their marketing budgets....yet.

As I've said, you can make a game for nothing if you have people that are passionate about making a game, and don't mind not getting paid. People throw around these large numbers, which I'm sure works fine for NFL, NBA, NHL, or a PGA game. A simple market analysis would reveal that there isn't the revenue in making an MX game on that kind of a budget.

For example, I would be curious to hear how much money the MX Sim developer has invested in the game. I'm guessing it is the most profitable MX game to be released in a long time.

A game like Battlefield or Call of Duty can afford to spend 100 million on advertising, but they are such household names in gaming, I wonder if they really need to and if it really benefits all that much.

*edit* I'm not sure about the guy that came up with the 5 million to lease a game engine, but unreal engine is around 350k with royalties or 750k without royalties. Not cheap, but a long way from 5 million.


This from the Unreal ModDB page:

Only a week after Unity announced the free use of their engine for indie and mod teams, Epic Games has unveiled UDK UNREAL DEVELOPMENT KIT (clever name that) for use by indie and mod teams. While the choice of tools and engines available to mod and indie developers increases by the day, traditionally engines the magnitude and relevance of UE have been out of the reach of smaller teams due to licensing costs edging close to a million.

http://www.moddb.com/engines/unreal-engine-3/news/unreal-engine-3-free-…
Ramrod wrote:
What exactly is the engine the game needs? Maybe a dumb question but I just play the games and don't know the technical aspects of the...
What exactly is the engine the game needs? Maybe a dumb question but I just play the games and don't know the technical aspects of the game.
I'm not really sure how to simplify it but I'll try, lol.

A game engine basically handles the core elements of a game. Textures, terrain, physics, particles, lighting, objects, animations, scripts, and networking...I'm sure there is more but you get the idea.

Having access to a game engine just means it's a baseline setting and a toolkit for those that wish to make a game. FE: Instead of having to cast out every part of a dirt bike, you just go buy one. These free games engines give you the bike and the tools to work on it, as well. (basic analogy)

The thing is that it takes a crew to make the track to ride on, and the technicians to get the potential out of the bike.

Pretty much any of the free game engines are capable of doing anything that you want to do with them. So you need people that know what they are doing more than any amount of money. In fact, I'll say that the big money factor for games has hurt it more than helped.

You need people that can 3d model bikes, animate them in game, design tracks, make the appropriate textures for the tracks, programmers that can modify the source code (add systems like terrain degradation,) create scripts for the game logic, tweak/ modify networking capabilities, physics, sample or synthesize sounds. There is so much to it from a group up approach.

I never got into MX Sim, but it's a perfect example of what can be done with some skilled people. The demo is utter crap, and the game looks horrible in it's standard form, but the community have made better models, textures, and tracks. (they are still lacking big time on animations and physics, though.)

So I'm not sure if there is any simple way to answer "what a game engine needs" except for people that know how to use it...
Ramrod
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9/12/2012 7:31pm
Thanks for the explanation.

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