IT is a privateer, GL8 not???

Shenzi
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Fantasy
Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 3:39pm
Just listening to the archive of the MotoShow with Lindsey and Matthes and realized that Langston is not registered as a privateer and therefore doesn't get a shot at the Privateers' purse.

What the...
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Midnite_MX
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2/9/2010 8:50am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2010 8:51am
i think langston is factory supported, but not supplied with a factory ride
500guy
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2/9/2010 8:54am
Shenzi wrote:
Just listening to the archive of the MotoShow with Lindsey and Matthes and realized that Langston is not registered as a privateer and therefore doesn't get...
Just listening to the archive of the MotoShow with Lindsey and Matthes and realized that Langston is not registered as a privateer and therefore doesn't get a shot at the Privateers' purse.

What the...
Seriously

Tedesco isn't a Privateer, you know he didn't agree to ride without a good contract. He said he wouldn't ride unless he got a decent deal.

He's ripping off other riders who deserve it more.

Props to Langston and the JGR guy's for not trying to cherry pick this deal.
Ozzy
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2/9/2010 8:58am
Valli is a Factory supported deal.
Valli is also a private/privateer deal too.
The GL8 program is very similar to Valli's.
Getting the fine print of it all sorted out
seems to be a necessary homework
assignment for GL's management!
Dave O.Wink




Ozzy
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2/9/2010 9:08am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:40pm
500...........
The whole deal of who's what, boils
down to the AMA.
The definition of it all is what it is, that's why
there's anger & confusion most of the time.
This hasn't changed for some time...........
For me, ANY who get financial support from the factory
aren't privateers.
Any who get ANY support parts or otherwise from the
factory aren't privateers either.............
It's a gray area that needs to be cleaned up & defined
much more clearly.
Privateers are privateers........simple!
Factory supported are not........simple!
Re-writing it all seems so simple too, but it seems
Hell will freeze over 1st............
Dave O.Wink

The Shop

Farva
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2/9/2010 9:13am
The year I did the nationals they had Joe Gibb's team as a privateer team but later changed it.

That should show you how "great" the AMA is.
motomike894
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2/9/2010 9:27am
None of those guys are privateers.

A privateer is someone pitted out of a pick up or cargo van with no OEM support from anyone.

This privateer definition/awards shit is way out of hand, IT is not a privateer, unless I see him at Indy with the van he drove from california and etc. then thats horse shit.
NetMXer
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2/9/2010 9:45am
It shouldn't even be whether your supported by a factory or not that determines if your a privateer. With all the outside sponsors involved these days a team/rider could make huge money without even being supported by a specific factory. A privateer should be defined as a rider who doesn't earn a salary for racing.
Back in the early days, a privateer was a rider who showed up with his own equipment, had his father as a mechanic and the only support he was given was from a few sponsors and maybe a local shop. The only money he made racing was what he won on Sunday.
Ozzy
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2/9/2010 10:07am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:40pm
Times change.........
For me, a private effort defines a modern privateer.
It's in the fine print of it all that defines it.
There's the privateer effort, then there's the privateer
factory supported effort, factory satellite effort, & full factory.
Whether or not it's him, his dad & his dog, the times
have changed. Most of the vehicles used by such have
gone way way up the ladder too, but again, whether he
earns some money from sponsors or not isn't the defining
factor.
The Factories are..........
A privateer today, is a 100% non-factory supported guy.
He can be such through a dealer, but not the back door type.
IT9, GL8, are not privateers at all...........
There's more too............
Bikes, parts, etc., through the factories system are not privateers.
Through a dealership are.
There's a fine line there for sure, but no back door deals allowed!
Many skate this as they're on a true privately funded team.
But no support can be from the factory.
Technical help sure, but nothing more!
Valli, JGR, J-Laws, Moto Concepts, & others are private teams
just not privateers.
Dave O.Wink









Midnite_MX
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2/9/2010 10:12am
yeah i was gonna say something about the butler brothers earlier, theyre privateers but are they privateers? lol, thats a tough line to draw, because some see it as a pick up truck, and some see it as a couple of rigs(without factory support), it boils down to product support advertising is a seperate entity from factory support, so yeah the butlers are privateers because they arent big 5 endorsed
Jarid332
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2/9/2010 10:21am
Feld should probably try to learn the difference between Privateer and private team..

Neither Tedesco or GL are privateers.
Midnite_MX
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2/9/2010 10:33am
Ozzy wrote:
Times change......... For me, a private effort defines a modern privateer. It's in the fine print of it all that defines it. There's the privateer effort...
Times change.........
For me, a private effort defines a modern privateer.
It's in the fine print of it all that defines it.
There's the privateer effort, then there's the privateer
factory supported effort, factory satellite effort, & full factory.
Whether or not it's him, his dad & his dog, the times
have changed. Most of the vehicles used by such have
gone way way up the ladder too, but again, whether he
earns some money from sponsors or not isn't the defining
factor.
The Factories are..........
A privateer today, is a 100% non-factory supported guy.
He can be such through a dealer, but not the back door type.
IT9, GL8, are not privateers at all...........
There's more too............
Bikes, parts, etc., through the factories system are not privateers.
Through a dealership are.
There's a fine line there for sure, but no back door deals allowed!
Many skate this as they're on a true privately funded team.
But no support can be from the factory.
Technical help sure, but nothing more!
Valli, JGR, J-Laws, Moto Concepts, & others are private teams
just not privateers.
Dave O.Wink









That taught me alot, thanks man
Ozzy
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2/9/2010 10:38am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:40pm
Again all, how the team gets to the races isn't
the issue...........
The pick-up days are long gone........
Just check out an amateur event. Many of the rigs
& cubic dollars dwarf a factory style deal.
Show Haulers, Fun Movers & even semis have
entered the private/privateer ranks.
Today, you can be a well funded privateer effort.
It's just again that it all has to be on the private dime.
Bikes, parts, whatever all paid for or supported through
a private interest, sponsor, dealer...........
Non-factory!
& Butler Bros. yes, as long as it's all coming from non-factory sources.
Dealerships are a non-factory source.
Factories can route help through dealerships, just not direct.
Dave O.Wink
Midnite_MX
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2/9/2010 10:41am
The Butler Bros. deserve alot of admiration for what they bring to the sport. guys like those, regardless as to how big they may be, are still guys who arent in one of the pockets of the big 5. i admire that man, it brings it back home so to speak. jmo btw
Ozzy
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2/9/2010 10:58am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:40pm
Look, for years many who get the "privateer award"
simply aren't, that goes for SX & MX .............
Sure they're non-factory, but again they are.
Fine print again...........
Any form of factory support other than technical changes ones
status.
A factory routing support through a dealership does not.
Factories want the dealerships to do more & to be involved
more. The only way for them to do such, is by example, say with
Valli Motorsports, is to route ALL through a dealership, a Yamaha
dealership, & that goes for ALL the manufactures.
By doing it as they currently are, it should void the privateer status of many.
Again, quite the mess, but with any mess until someone makes the effort to
clean it up, well you just have a mess on your hands.............
Dave O. Wink
BobbyM
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2/9/2010 11:14am
Ozzy wrote:
Again all, how the team gets to the races isn't the issue........... The pick-up days are long gone........ Just check out an amateur event. Many of...
Again all, how the team gets to the races isn't
the issue...........
The pick-up days are long gone........
Just check out an amateur event. Many of the rigs
& cubic dollars dwarf a factory style deal.
Show Haulers, Fun Movers & even semis have
entered the private/privateer ranks.
Today, you can be a well funded privateer effort.
It's just again that it all has to be on the private dime.
Bikes, parts, whatever all paid for or supported through
a private interest, sponsor, dealer...........
Non-factory!
& Butler Bros. yes, as long as it's all coming from non-factory sources.
Dealerships are a non-factory source.
Factories can route help through dealerships, just not direct.
Dave O.Wink
exactly dave...what if i walked to the races or pushed my scooter, would i be a super privateer?

if you don't pay a dime out of yer own pocket to race yer not a privateer.
ab5772
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2/9/2010 11:50am
Shenzi wrote:
Just listening to the archive of the MotoShow with Lindsey and Matthes and realized that Langston is not registered as a privateer and therefore doesn't get...
Just listening to the archive of the MotoShow with Lindsey and Matthes and realized that Langston is not registered as a privateer and therefore doesn't get a shot at the Privateers' purse.

What the...
Listen to the archive with Kenny Watson and IT. That's some funny stuff. Watson keeps making fun of IT for calling himself a privateer. Ivan doesn't seem to think it's that funny.
Ozzy
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2/9/2010 12:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:40pm
It's not up to the riders to decide this......
Not the sponsors nor the factories or press either.
The AMA need to have a simple but brief questioner.
& for my pal Kenny Watson, he's correct...........
If the whole deal at Hart & Huntington is non-factory,
regardless of the Rockstar money, then they're "privateers"..
Even the factory contingency money, that's for private guys,
not factory supported guys or back door supported guys.........
It's funny over the many years how many times this comes up
& has been a problem for some.
Some get rewarded justly.....
Some don't, but it's always that gray area, & needs to be
handled once & for all...........
Remember, the check your cashing may not really be your own?
Dave O.Wink
NetMXer
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2/9/2010 2:07pm
Maybe it's time that award has outlived it's usefulness. I suspect it was intended to attract non factory riders by giving them the opportunity to earn some cash which they may not be able to win through purse money since they were competing with highly funded factories.If those that are giving the award have no interest in redefining the purpose of the award, maybe they should just make it a 50/50 drawing at the end of the year and pick a riders name out of a hat.
homerdaman
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2/9/2010 3:02pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:41pm
I don't know if you guys saw what Throttle wrote on here.

"Let me clear this up for you real fast! Valli Motorsports is a full privateer team! Valli pays for all their bikes and parts that they get also every part on Ivans bike you can buy right out of a parts book at any local dealership! The suspension and pipe can be bought at PC and the engine is complete GYTR wich can be bought from a parts book at a Yamaha dealership also Ivan is'nt paid any salary or bonus money from Yamaha so that makes him a privateer! NOW L&M has Works suspension Works parts and Factory motors from Yamaha and their riders are paid bonuses from Yamaha and JGR runs works parts from Yamaha and their riders are also paid bonus money from Yamaha so that makes them NOT privateers! "

But Ivan gets nothing from Yamaha that they don't pay for. Plain and simple. If Valli isn't paying then they aren't using.

Ozzy
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2/9/2010 3:27pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:41pm
Quote....."Throttle" (Valli's mgr.)
"Let me clear this up for you real fast! Valli Motorsports is a full privateer team! Valli pays for all their bikes and parts that they get also every part on Ivans bike you can buy right out of a parts book at any local dealership! The suspension and pipe can be bought at PC and the engine is complete GYTR wich can be bought from a parts book at a Yamaha dealership also Ivan is'nt paid any salary or bonus money from Yamaha so that makes him a privateer! NOW L&M has Works suspension Works parts and Factory motors from Yamaha and their riders are paid bonuses from Yamaha and JGR runs works parts from Yamaha and their riders are also paid bonus money from Yamaha so that makes them NOT privateers! "

Well, Dave O. shame on me.......& I stand corrected.
(not the 1st time.......) sorry "Throttle & Co."...........
However, that alone & all else are the reasons that the AMA needs to have
a clear clarification on their end of it all. You see there could be good money
involved at some point so again, if your clearly not a factory effort, then when filing
for team credentials, etc., a "team outline form" of sorts needs to be done by all.
It would ask specifics about the teams to determine if in fact they were true privateers
& void of factory involvement outside of technical help.
Being allowed to ride/test on the factory test tracks has no bearing.

On another note, many teams can pay for works/factory offerings if available to them.
They also may pay for bikes as well.
Sure, a privateer doesn't get a factory salary.
But he could be eligible for contingency money, not bonus money.
Again, if these various teams registered their status of sorts, then
no more issues or problems & everyone's happy.
Dave O.Wink

Spinner
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2/9/2010 3:37pm
There needs to be a PayPal link to fix some of this bullshit!

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