How will we ever know who is the fastest rider with multiple classes?

brimx153
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9/10/2015 3:17pm
I never said that, but how do you know? Wouldn't it have been great to see it settled on the track? The fact that it is...
I never said that, but how do you know? Wouldn't it have been great to see it settled on the track? The fact that it is even being discussed confirms the possibility that he could have been a threat. Why should a threat to the GOAT be in a "development?" class anyway when he is better than 95% of the pro's in the world at the time for sure.

so what you saying is JS7 got worse as he continued . and was quicker for the first few years ?? i just find it stupid to think after 3 year of experience he went up to the big boy class and RC beat him very easy .but if he had of went stright from amateurs he would of had something for RC . really ??
Johnny Depp
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9/10/2015 3:23pm
This isn't about JS or RC. Anyone capable of winning a few moto's (as you said) should be riding with the best.
RG1
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9/10/2015 3:32pm
This isn't about JS or RC. Anyone capable of winning a few moto's (as you said) should be riding with the best.
So as soon as a guy wins a couple of motos, instead of staying on a 250 and gaining some confidence in winning races and learning how to build some consistency to become a potential champion, he should move straight up into the 450 class where he doesn't have a chance in hell of winning motos? How does that help anyone?
Johnny Depp
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9/10/2015 3:41pm Edited Date/Time 9/10/2015 3:46pm
And riding around 1/2 a lap ahead helps on a machine you have to scream the engine rpms?

This isn't about rider development. We are talking about entertainment value with the best riders only included in the show. Stay home and learn if you want to or saddle up with your big boy panties. If you have a series with a real purse you won't have to convince anyone to move up. If I was getting a contract to beat up on the weaklings I would do the same thing. Riders will go where they can make the most $. It is not the responsibility of a professional series to develop riders IMHO.

The Shop

OldYZRider1
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9/10/2015 6:07pm
The top 250 class guys are every bit as fast as the top 450 riders and I agree they should all be racing together on whatever machine they want to run. I guess some feel that the top 450 rider is the better "man" cause he wrestled the pig the best? If it's a macho thing just take the top five racers from an open class race and have a cage fight at the podium then we'll also know who the best "man". The best racer will have been decided on the track.
Hcallz5
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9/10/2015 6:34pm
Does anyone know if JS7 is running Showa SFF or the ole' spring and fluid combo?
Johnny Depp
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9/10/2015 6:44pm
wrong thread, and everyone is on air, ask ML512
Johnny Depp
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9/10/2015 6:54pm
Most sporting events have a similar time window. The question to me is do you want to put your best entertainment on it, or advancement classes...
Most sporting events have a similar time window. The question to me is do you want to put your best entertainment on it, or advancement classes (that look like the same bike on TV) and last chance qualifiers?
How long is the supercross broadcast? You need to be able to fill that time with enough racing to keep fans interested and not ripped off...
How long is the supercross broadcast?
You need to be able to fill that time with enough racing to keep fans interested and not ripped off while also maintaining some type of health for the racers. You can't have the 450 guys racing for 3 hours and 30 minutes and expect them to stay healthy for 16 rounds of SX and 12 outdoors. They struggle to keep the guys healthy with the limited time they spend on the track. You need all those races and both classes to have a product where people don't feel ripped off and racers feel they can stay healthy for.
Don't worry about enough action. 7 motos x 20 minutes is 2 hrs and 20 minutes of top notch racing. Let the fast minibikes have a run, prep the track, do some interviews and you have a show.

Don't worry about the riders either. Part of the plan would be to dumb the track down a bit for less injuries and closer competition.

9/10/2015 7:01pm
You can live with your head in the clouds all you want, but the reality is you'd lose teams because they can't justify the price of racing both coasts. You'd then cut the 250 teams that want to stay in half because they no longer need riders for both coasts, so instead of PC having 6 riders they'd have 3. The purse is not increasing. In your fantasy you've got million dollar purses being paid out, but you need to live in reality.
9/10/2015 7:03pm
Don't worry about enough [b]action[/b]. 7 motos x 20 minutes is 2 hrs and 20 minutes of top notch racing. Let the fast minibikes have a...
Don't worry about enough action. 7 motos x 20 minutes is 2 hrs and 20 minutes of top notch racing. Let the fast minibikes have a run, prep the track, do some interviews and you have a show.

Don't worry about the riders either. Part of the plan would be to dumb the track down a bit for less injuries and closer competition.

You want these guys to race for 2 hours and 20 minutes as hard as they can in one of the most physically demanding sports on earth?
motogrady
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9/10/2015 7:20pm
Dream on fellas.

The top guys are all in AMA, they run pretty much all year round, half don't show for a million dollar race,
And/or avoid the desNations just to get a breather.

Face reality, unless the AMA goes under, it is what it is.

The 450s are the top class, that's where everyone gravitates to, nobody goes back down to the feeder class, why is there even a question on this?

Outsider
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9/10/2015 7:50pm Edited Date/Time 9/10/2015 8:05pm
Ty Davis.

Supercross champ
Hare n hound champ
Enduro champ
Six days gold medalist (I think)

Edit: nevermind I think I missed the point, whatever it is
Johnny Depp
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9/10/2015 8:20pm
Don't worry about enough [b]action[/b]. 7 motos x 20 minutes is 2 hrs and 20 minutes of top notch racing. Let the fast minibikes have a...
Don't worry about enough action. 7 motos x 20 minutes is 2 hrs and 20 minutes of top notch racing. Let the fast minibikes have a run, prep the track, do some interviews and you have a show.

Don't worry about the riders either. Part of the plan would be to dumb the track down a bit for less injuries and closer competition.

You want these guys to race for 2 hours and 20 minutes as hard as they can in one of the most physically demanding sports on...
You want these guys to race for 2 hours and 20 minutes as hard as they can in one of the most physically demanding sports on earth?
Please try to pay attention. We've been over this math before....
Each rider would ride:
1 quarterfinal
1 semifinal (if they advance)
1 final (if they advance)

If they were 20 minutes each that would be 1 Hour of racing. Not so hard is it?
Johnny Depp
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9/10/2015 8:23pm Edited Date/Time 9/10/2015 8:37pm
You can live with your head in the clouds all you want, but the reality is you'd lose teams because they can't justify the price of...
You can live with your head in the clouds all you want, but the reality is you'd lose teams because they can't justify the price of racing both coasts. You'd then cut the 250 teams that want to stay in half because they no longer need riders for both coasts, so instead of PC having 6 riders they'd have 3. The purse is not increasing. In your fantasy you've got million dollar purses being paid out, but you need to live in reality.
We can agree to disagree on this.

My position is the growth in the Pro class will overcome the loss of the "up and coming" class.

After all the whining about money you would think some teams would be glad to reduce expenses anyway.

No one is making any of these teams compete, they do it because they think it is good business.
Johnny Depp
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9/10/2015 8:32pm Edited Date/Time 9/10/2015 8:41pm
motogrady wrote:
Dream on fellas. The top guys are all in AMA, they run pretty much all year round, half don't show for a million dollar race, And/or...
Dream on fellas.

The top guys are all in AMA, they run pretty much all year round, half don't show for a million dollar race,
And/or avoid the desNations just to get a breather.

Face reality, unless the AMA goes under, it is what it is.

The 450s are the top class, that's where everyone gravitates to, nobody goes back down to the feeder class, why is there even a question on this?

There is a question on this because several of the "250" guys can beat most of the "450" guys.

So if the "AMA" is the only game in town, how about we try to point out a better way to grow the sport?

In case you haven't noticed, a message board in today's world is a powerful tool.

So the question is do you agree that the top 250 riders could be top performers in the 450 class, and what would you do about it? Is it OK to condone sandbagging so that more riders can have a good job?

Is it possible that if the top riders all moved into the "Pro" class that other up and coming riders might get their chance?
motogrady
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9/11/2015 7:01am Edited Date/Time 9/11/2015 7:02am
motogrady wrote:
Dream on fellas. The top guys are all in AMA, they run pretty much all year round, half don't show for a million dollar race, And/or...
Dream on fellas.

The top guys are all in AMA, they run pretty much all year round, half don't show for a million dollar race,
And/or avoid the desNations just to get a breather.

Face reality, unless the AMA goes under, it is what it is.

The 450s are the top class, that's where everyone gravitates to, nobody goes back down to the feeder class, why is there even a question on this?

There is a question on this because several of the "250" guys can beat most of the "450" guys. So if the "AMA" is the only...
There is a question on this because several of the "250" guys can beat most of the "450" guys.

So if the "AMA" is the only game in town, how about we try to point out a better way to grow the sport?

In case you haven't noticed, a message board in today's world is a powerful tool.

So the question is do you agree that the top 250 riders could be top performers in the 450 class, and what would you do about it? Is it OK to condone sandbagging so that more riders can have a good job?

Is it possible that if the top riders all moved into the "Pro" class that other up and coming riders might get their chance?
Well, in my eyes, the 250 guys and others may think they can beat the 450 guys, but unless they show up and do,
they don't. They are not as fast. They aren't even there. It's wishful thinking.

To say they can is empty talk.

As far as pointing things out to the powers that be, hey, nothing wrong with that.

And yeah, message boards and social media is a force to be reckoned with for sure
Look what it did for Obama 7 or 8 years ago.

As far as forcing guys to move up, I thought when they first came out with The Lites class they had age or a number of times you could run that class.
Myself, I never could come to grips with holding back advancing just to accumulate a winning record.
But, some guys think there is, and in reality it is so, even in the pro ranks.
Look at Stewart. The year he went undefeated. IMO he had no business on that 125, he was a bona fided contender
In the open class.
But to this day, it is mentioned, it's in the record, it's on his resume, undefeated in blah blah year.
It is worth money to a guy that races bikes for a living.
And if I were him I'd say screw Depp, it made me more then and will in the future.

Also, there are times when a factory needs a guy in the small bike class, and that's the only ride a pro can close.
Hannah, the "let Brock by year", was on a peashooter because that's where Yamaha needed him.
They had warehouses full of 125s the needed to move, and needed the Championship to do so.
Reed, that's another example.
After just missing the 250 crown in Europe, he came to the States, and rode 125 because that's all any factory would give him.

Now, whose the guy in Europe that insists on sticking with the 250s. Herlings?
From what I gather, whoever it is wants to go down as most 250 championships won, to be known as that.
Hey, if that's good for him, so be it. But in my eyes, he's not even close to a Caroli.

As far as getting a chance to an up and comer, if he needs a chance, relying on a chance, he prob ain't gonna make it anyway. He's gotta hang in there, and make it happen.
The Rock
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9/11/2015 10:30am Edited Date/Time 9/11/2015 10:30am
I just clicked on this thread for the first time in a few days. I can see it is just about time for another chest protector thread by the looks of it. :-)

All I will say is we need to keep the 250 SX class as it is and NOT combine east and west.
ML512
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Fantasy
9/11/2015 2:17pm
The Rock wrote:
I just clicked on this thread for the first time in a few days. I can see it is just about time for another chest protector...
I just clicked on this thread for the first time in a few days. I can see it is just about time for another chest protector thread by the looks of it. :-)

All I will say is we need to keep the 250 SX class as it is and NOT combine east and west.
Agreed... but not on needing another chest protector thread. Laughing
Tarz483
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9/11/2015 3:02pm Edited Date/Time 9/11/2015 3:03pm
I think the opposite
Id say add a class
125 two stroke
And make all 3 classes
No age limit
And no pointing out
. Why no age limit or pointing out u ask ?
Imo simply because some ride different bikes
Better , off the top of my head
Mike Brown and Steve Lamson
Come to mind on 125's
. Also as some have mentioned some guys arent really ready to move to a 450 even after pointing out , Trey had said he wasnt ready.
Also maybe some top guys dtop down to 250 or even 125 just for fun . Or near the end of there career or move up and then decide they werent ready and drop back down etc ..
Imo the more racing the better
Id like to see this in Sx and Mx

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