Good guy with a gun...hell yeah!

Crash82
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9022
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Location
MONTGOMERY, AL, USA
3/25/2015 7:09am
My neighbor had a laptop stolen this week. The crooks are to stupid to realize they are automatically uploading pics to my neighbors Google drive! Hey Shiftfaced you think these folks are going to check the guns in at the armory or pay fees?













3/25/2015 7:14am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 7:14am
Crash82 wrote:
My neighbor had a laptop stolen this week. The crooks are to stupid to realize they are automatically uploading pics to my neighbors Google drive! Hey...
My neighbor had a laptop stolen this week. The crooks are to stupid to realize they are automatically uploading pics to my neighbors Google drive! Hey Shiftfaced you think these folks are going to check the guns in at the armory or pay fees?













They look like nice upstanding law abiding citizens!
I believe they are really good friends of KeyboardWarrior.
newmann
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Location
USA
3/25/2015 7:17am
Then what do you suggest they do about this gun violence problem?
Shiftfaced wrote:
I believe that we have a fundamental right to protect ourselves, but I also feel that we have flooded our society with too many guns. I...
I believe that we have a fundamental right to protect ourselves, but I also feel that we have flooded our society with too many guns. I believe that we will reduce the number of innocent people being murdered by guns with a three-pronged approach:
1. Reduction in the number of guns available;
2. Relinquishing tactical advantage back to Law Enforcement; and
3. Fiscal responsibility for one's gun choices.

I would accomplish this by:

1. Reduction in numbers of guns in society. Each home would be allowed to have ONE gun on the property. That gun is there for your protection. No concealed permits, no guns roaming around the streets. We have access to one gun, in our homes.

Outside of that, you can have all of the guns you want, but they will be checked out, and checked back in, to an armory.

I believe that many of the guns that are undocumented, and readily available to the criminal element are stolen. Say you have 25 guns in your house, unsecured, and they all get stolen, we ALL have a problem. If each home only has one gun, and it gets stolen, we all have LESS of a problem. Over the course of time, the numbers of undocumented guns that the criminal element has access to will slowly decline.

And, having to go to the armory for additional guns will hopefully be that extra level of "bullshit" (much like our delay periods on gun purchases does) that will prevent a certain number of "passion" crimes. The more you have to think about it, hopefully the less likely you are to do it.

2. Relinquishing tactical advantage back to Law Enforcement I say we get ride of the "Cop Killer" bullets. No more of those "Black Rhinos", or what ever they have made that is capable of piercing armor. A certain number of us are "afraid" of our government, and arm them selves to the teeth to fight our government. That forces our local city, county, and state law enforcement agencies to arm themselves in a respective manner. I already pay for my federal government to win every arms race that they can find. I don't feel the need to also arm my city, county, and state governments in more arms races. I am not afraid of my government. Whether I agree with their decisions or not, I live in a Republic, and I participate in elections to appoint legislators to make decisions for me. If I do not agree with their decisions, I participate in the process. If I still do not get my way, I have to accept the fact that my brothers do not agree with me, and I need to think about my positions. I don't get off in trying to make my government fear that if I cannot accept their decisions, that I will take up arms over it.

I do not believe that my access to small arms has the capacity to over-throw my government. Those days are over.

3. Fiscal responsibility for one's gun choices This is the big one. In my opinion, change does not REALLY happen in our society without it coming from the "market". By that, I mean that our society changes when their decisions are made by what goes in, or comes out, of our wallets. I believe that you should be able to have any, and as many, guns as you want in that armory for "check out", but you also need to carry "insurance" for all of those guns. That insurance will be based upon how many innocent lives have been taken by that specific brand and model of gun. That insurance will be used to pay for paid, professional security guards at schools, city hall, county and state government offices. It would also pay into a pool for hospital care for those shot, and funds to family members of those killed. Each gun purchase would pay a fee, long term ownership would require monthly (or annual) insurance, and ammunition sales would also pay this fee.

That way, the costs incurred by our society for the presences of all of these guns would be borne by those who think they want, and/or need them.

Don't want to pay any of those fees? Don't own a gun.

Over the course of time, I believe that our society would have less impacts on it from guns, and we would become a more civilized society.

Geez. No doubt that will stop those criminals. Let the good honest law abiding citizens pay more into yet another system that will no doubt accomplish nothing.

Crash82
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Location
MONTGOMERY, AL, USA
3/25/2015 7:19am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 7:21am
I told them to wait for the pawnshops to open or get the police involved before you let this info out. They made fliers and put them up in the hood, someone was taking them down....I have copies printed out and taped to my dashboard, shits gonna get real. This is the real world y'all, you won't see this on MSNBC.

The Shop

3/25/2015 7:44am
So to tackle gun violence we aren't really going to do anything about all the illegally acquired guns and we're going to convince people that own more than one gun that their gun is safer in a locked up armory ran by the government. This sounds a lot like the beginning of the holocaust.

What about pawn shops? Guns are stolen out of those places all the time. Will they also be limited in the amount of guns that they can have for sale at one time?
Shiftfaced
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Location
Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
3/25/2015 7:55am
Crash82 wrote:
[b]Outside of that, you can have all of the guns you want, but they will be checked out, and checked back in, to an armory. [/b]...
Outside of that, you can have all of the guns you want, but they will be checked out, and checked back in, to an armory.

I have to go check my gun out to go hunting?

It would also pay into a pool for hospital care for those shot, and funds to family members of those killed. Each gun purchase would pay a fee, long term ownership would require monthly (or annual) insurance, and ammunition sales would also pay this fee.

So you want to penalize people who have never shot anyone in order to pay for the hospital care for the gangsters that are shooting each other?

That insurance will be based upon how many innocent lives have been taken by that specific brand and model of gun.

This is a joke right, hidden cameras or some shit? How would we enforce these awesome new laws? What if someone didn't bring their gun back by the curfew? Who is going in people's houses to count their guns? Of course there is the number one most ignored fact of all time, the criminals will still have as many guns as they want and will not be paying one cent in fees and taxes. All you will do is screw over innocent good folks.
Would you have to check out a gun to go hunting? Or target shooting? Or anything else?

Yes. Not that big of a deal.

When I was in the Air Force, I was an aircrew member on a C-130. Whenever we flew the plane outside of the CONUS, I had to carry a concealed 9mm. Before we took off, I had to go to the armory and check one out. When we landed, I would check it back in. Not a big deal at all.

Would I want to "penalize" somebody who has never shot somebody?

If that is how you look at it, yes. Just like car insurance. You don't only pay that AFTER you wreck. You pay that on your probability of wrecking.
Shiftfaced
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Location
Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
3/25/2015 8:02am
So to tackle gun violence we aren't really going to do anything about all the illegally acquired guns and we're going to convince people that own...
So to tackle gun violence we aren't really going to do anything about all the illegally acquired guns and we're going to convince people that own more than one gun that their gun is safer in a locked up armory ran by the government. This sounds a lot like the beginning of the holocaust.

What about pawn shops? Guns are stolen out of those places all the time. Will they also be limited in the amount of guns that they can have for sale at one time?
Holocaust?

That is nothing but living in fear. Communication that is available to EVERYBODY of the world today will ensure nothing like that will ever happen again. That seems to me a play in the "fear monger" game.

As for pawn shops, places that sell guns should have a VERY HIGH security burden placed upon them. Period.

71Fish
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Location
Ogden, UT, USA
3/25/2015 8:06am
Then what do you suggest they do about this gun violence problem?
Shiftfaced wrote:
I believe that we have a fundamental right to protect ourselves, but I also feel that we have flooded our society with too many guns. I...
I believe that we have a fundamental right to protect ourselves, but I also feel that we have flooded our society with too many guns. I believe that we will reduce the number of innocent people being murdered by guns with a three-pronged approach:
1. Reduction in the number of guns available;
2. Relinquishing tactical advantage back to Law Enforcement; and
3. Fiscal responsibility for one's gun choices.

I would accomplish this by:

1. Reduction in numbers of guns in society. Each home would be allowed to have ONE gun on the property. That gun is there for your protection. No concealed permits, no guns roaming around the streets. We have access to one gun, in our homes.

Outside of that, you can have all of the guns you want, but they will be checked out, and checked back in, to an armory.

I believe that many of the guns that are undocumented, and readily available to the criminal element are stolen. Say you have 25 guns in your house, unsecured, and they all get stolen, we ALL have a problem. If each home only has one gun, and it gets stolen, we all have LESS of a problem. Over the course of time, the numbers of undocumented guns that the criminal element has access to will slowly decline.

And, having to go to the armory for additional guns will hopefully be that extra level of "bullshit" (much like our delay periods on gun purchases does) that will prevent a certain number of "passion" crimes. The more you have to think about it, hopefully the less likely you are to do it.

2. Relinquishing tactical advantage back to Law Enforcement I say we get ride of the "Cop Killer" bullets. No more of those "Black Rhinos", or what ever they have made that is capable of piercing armor. A certain number of us are "afraid" of our government, and arm them selves to the teeth to fight our government. That forces our local city, county, and state law enforcement agencies to arm themselves in a respective manner. I already pay for my federal government to win every arms race that they can find. I don't feel the need to also arm my city, county, and state governments in more arms races. I am not afraid of my government. Whether I agree with their decisions or not, I live in a Republic, and I participate in elections to appoint legislators to make decisions for me. If I do not agree with their decisions, I participate in the process. If I still do not get my way, I have to accept the fact that my brothers do not agree with me, and I need to think about my positions. I don't get off in trying to make my government fear that if I cannot accept their decisions, that I will take up arms over it.

I do not believe that my access to small arms has the capacity to over-throw my government. Those days are over.

3. Fiscal responsibility for one's gun choices This is the big one. In my opinion, change does not REALLY happen in our society without it coming from the "market". By that, I mean that our society changes when their decisions are made by what goes in, or comes out, of our wallets. I believe that you should be able to have any, and as many, guns as you want in that armory for "check out", but you also need to carry "insurance" for all of those guns. That insurance will be based upon how many innocent lives have been taken by that specific brand and model of gun. That insurance will be used to pay for paid, professional security guards at schools, city hall, county and state government offices. It would also pay into a pool for hospital care for those shot, and funds to family members of those killed. Each gun purchase would pay a fee, long term ownership would require monthly (or annual) insurance, and ammunition sales would also pay this fee.

That way, the costs incurred by our society for the presences of all of these guns would be borne by those who think they want, and/or need them.

Don't want to pay any of those fees? Don't own a gun.

Over the course of time, I believe that our society would have less impacts on it from guns, and we would become a more civilized society.

So to summarize, you want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment? That is a question, not the start of an argument. That may come later.
Shiftfaced
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Location
Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
3/25/2015 8:19am
71Fish wrote:
So to summarize, you want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment? That is a question, not the start of an argument. That may come later.
No. Maybe I was not clear enough. Each home would be allowed to posses ONE gun. For protection.

Is it abolishing the 2nd Amendment? No.

Is it LIMITING it? Yes.
3/25/2015 8:23am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 8:24am
Shiftfaced wrote:
Holocaust? That is nothing but living in fear. Communication that is available to EVERYBODY of the world today will ensure nothing like that will ever happen...
Holocaust?

That is nothing but living in fear. Communication that is available to EVERYBODY of the world today will ensure nothing like that will ever happen again. That seems to me a play in the "fear monger" game.

As for pawn shops, places that sell guns should have a VERY HIGH security burden placed upon them. Period.

I'm not fear mongering. No one is going to accept the idea of turning over guns to a government run agency. That idea will not fly ever.

And you're going to need to put them within 20 miles of everyone. I would be livid if I had to drive an hour to pick up my guns each time I wanted to shoot them. When you do pick them up they are still just as likely to get stolen out of your car as they were before when you could keep them in your house.

It doesn't make sense. It is a billion dollar project with a ton of different avenues for corruption that only "fixes" one aspect of the problem. It could reduce the amount of guns that are stolen out of people's homes while adding a huge inconvenience for everyone. I don't think anyone wants to turn any money over to the government for insurance anyway. We already give them enough and get nothing in return.
Crash82
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9022
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Location
MONTGOMERY, AL, USA
3/25/2015 8:35am
Crash82 wrote:
[b]Outside of that, you can have all of the guns you want, but they will be checked out, and checked back in, to an armory. [/b]...
Outside of that, you can have all of the guns you want, but they will be checked out, and checked back in, to an armory.

I have to go check my gun out to go hunting?

It would also pay into a pool for hospital care for those shot, and funds to family members of those killed. Each gun purchase would pay a fee, long term ownership would require monthly (or annual) insurance, and ammunition sales would also pay this fee.

So you want to penalize people who have never shot anyone in order to pay for the hospital care for the gangsters that are shooting each other?

That insurance will be based upon how many innocent lives have been taken by that specific brand and model of gun.

This is a joke right, hidden cameras or some shit? How would we enforce these awesome new laws? What if someone didn't bring their gun back by the curfew? Who is going in people's houses to count their guns? Of course there is the number one most ignored fact of all time, the criminals will still have as many guns as they want and will not be paying one cent in fees and taxes. All you will do is screw over innocent good folks.
Shiftfaced wrote:
[b]Would you have to check out a gun to go hunting? Or target shooting? Or anything else?[/b] Yes. Not that big of a deal. When I...
Would you have to check out a gun to go hunting? Or target shooting? Or anything else?

Yes. Not that big of a deal.

When I was in the Air Force, I was an aircrew member on a C-130. Whenever we flew the plane outside of the CONUS, I had to carry a concealed 9mm. Before we took off, I had to go to the armory and check one out. When we landed, I would check it back in. Not a big deal at all.

Would I want to "penalize" somebody who has never shot somebody?

If that is how you look at it, yes. Just like car insurance. You don't only pay that AFTER you wreck. You pay that on your probability of wrecking.
So this isn't a joke? You were serious?


Shiftfaced
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Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
3/25/2015 8:44am
I'm not fear mongering. No one is going to accept the idea of turning over guns to a government run agency. That idea will not fly...
I'm not fear mongering. No one is going to accept the idea of turning over guns to a government run agency. That idea will not fly ever.

And you're going to need to put them within 20 miles of everyone. I would be livid if I had to drive an hour to pick up my guns each time I wanted to shoot them. When you do pick them up they are still just as likely to get stolen out of your car as they were before when you could keep them in your house.

It doesn't make sense. It is a billion dollar project with a ton of different avenues for corruption that only "fixes" one aspect of the problem. It could reduce the amount of guns that are stolen out of people's homes while adding a huge inconvenience for everyone. I don't think anyone wants to turn any money over to the government for insurance anyway. We already give them enough and get nothing in return.
Hey, I realize that what I am saying is not easy to implement, and there would be 100 issues to iron out.

I think that we need to start thinking about the impacts that guns have made, and are continuing to make, on our society.


I do NOT subscribe to the thought of "my right to own a gun supersedes the unfortunate death of your family member that was caused by one".

I think we need to move forward.

Would my little system work? Not sure. But I also don't think that what we currently are experiencing should be considered "acceptable".

71Fish
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Location
Ogden, UT, USA
3/25/2015 8:53am
71Fish wrote:
So to summarize, you want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment? That is a question, not the start of an argument. That may come later.
Shiftfaced wrote:
No. Maybe I was not clear enough. Each home would be allowed to posses ONE gun. For protection. Is it abolishing the 2nd Amendment? No. Is...
No. Maybe I was not clear enough. Each home would be allowed to posses ONE gun. For protection.

Is it abolishing the 2nd Amendment? No.

Is it LIMITING it? Yes.
Ok, fair enough. Next question, you then are in favor of amending the 2nd then? I don't have it memorized word for word, but I do know the 2nd says "shall not be infringed".

So are you in favor of amending the 2nd to say "Limited"?
IWreckALot
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Fort Worth, TX, USA
3/25/2015 9:07am
71Fish wrote:
Are the racist guns the ones you hold properly rather than a sideways "kill shot" hold? I took the class and sent off for my CC...
Are the racist guns the ones you hold properly rather than a sideways "kill shot" hold?

I took the class and sent off for my CC. Permit should arrive any day now.
newmann wrote:
Are you required to be a good law abiding tax paying citizen before they will issue you a CHL like here in Texas? Delinquent on taxes...
Are you required to be a good law abiding tax paying citizen before they will issue you a CHL like here in Texas? Delinquent on taxes? No permit for you. Misdemeanors or felonies? No permit for you. No wonder the police like seeing people handing over a CHL along with their drivers license, they know they are dealing with good people. Well, maybe good racist people depending on who you ask???Blink
71Fish wrote:
Yes. As a matter of fact, in UT the police run a check every single day on CC permit holders. So if I'm stopped for anything...
Yes. As a matter of fact, in UT the police run a check every single day on CC permit holders. So if I'm stopped for anything, the police know I have a clean record. You aren't "required" by law to show the cop your permit, but it is in your best interest I would think. The advice the instructor gave was, hand over your drivers license and CC permit and inform the officer whether or not you are carrying.
In Texas, I believe it is the law that you have to give them your CHL if you have one regardless if you're carrying or not. I don't have a CHL, but I believe that is the case.
Shiftfaced
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Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
3/25/2015 9:09am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 9:13am
71Fish wrote:
Ok, fair enough. Next question, you then are in favor of amending the 2nd then? I don't have it memorized word for word, but I do...
Ok, fair enough. Next question, you then are in favor of amending the 2nd then? I don't have it memorized word for word, but I do know the 2nd says "shall not be infringed".

So are you in favor of amending the 2nd to say "Limited"?
The original Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed


As ratified by the States, and Thomas Jefferson:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I believe the ORIGINAL intent of the 2nd Amendment was for each STATE to be able to be autonomous from the Federal government.

Then it was amended, with "state" not being capitalized. That changed its' meaning.

In my opinion, our National Guard fills the role in which its' original form intended. They have access to arms equal to that of our Federal government (to an extent), and it is WELL REGULATED, and regularly musters like a "militia".


I don't think my interpretation is carried by my brothers though, and that is why I am amending my expectations to something that might be more palatable to the nation as a whole.

71Fish
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Ogden, UT, USA
3/25/2015 9:20am
71Fish wrote:
Ok, fair enough. Next question, you then are in favor of amending the 2nd then? I don't have it memorized word for word, but I do...
Ok, fair enough. Next question, you then are in favor of amending the 2nd then? I don't have it memorized word for word, but I do know the 2nd says "shall not be infringed".

So are you in favor of amending the 2nd to say "Limited"?
Shiftfaced wrote:
The original Amendment: [b]A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms...
The original Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed


As ratified by the States, and Thomas Jefferson:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I believe the ORIGINAL intent of the 2nd Amendment was for each STATE to be able to be autonomous from the Federal government.

Then it was amended, with "state" not being capitalized. That changed its' meaning.

In my opinion, our National Guard fills the role in which its' original form intended. They have access to arms equal to that of our Federal government (to an extent), and it is WELL REGULATED, and regularly musters like a "militia".


I don't think my interpretation is carried by my brothers though, and that is why I am amending my expectations to something that might be more palatable to the nation as a whole.

The entire Bill of Rights (that's the first 10 amendments for you people from CA) is for our protection from the gov't. The 2nd is no different from the 1st, the 4th and so on, in that it protects us, we the people.
If we can change one we can change them all. That is a dangerous precedent to set.

But as a side, I do believe some reasonable limits can be set (to the 2nd) without infringing on our rights. I'm just not smart enough to know what those limits should be.
Shiftfaced
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Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
3/25/2015 9:23am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 9:24am
71Fish wrote:
The entire Bill of Rights (that's the first 10 amendments for you people from CA) is for our protection from the gov't. The 2nd is no...
The entire Bill of Rights (that's the first 10 amendments for you people from CA) is for our protection from the gov't. The 2nd is no different from the 1st, the 4th and so on, in that it protects us, we the people.
If we can change one we can change them all. That is a dangerous precedent to set.

But as a side, I do believe some reasonable limits can be set (to the 2nd) without infringing on our rights. I'm just not smart enough to know what those limits should be.
I appreciate your comments, and the fact that you can discuss these items without making it personal. Few can do that.

I also don't know what the "answer" is, but we should be able to at least have a discussion about it without people sinking to the behaviors typically displayed by the Lowest Common Denominator.

Peace,
BW
Crash82
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MONTGOMERY, AL, USA
3/25/2015 10:56am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 11:00am
The thugs that burglarized my home during broad daylight used the back yards behind McCarter to sqander my 40 inch flat screen, electronics, jewelry and other valuable items. The two jackasses used my tablet to take pictures of their spoils and those picturs downloaded to my cloud and eventually made their way to my cell phone! The geo tag on the photos are within a 5 mile radius of my home...basically these monsters live in CH. One suspect is now taking pictures of two handguns. I put out fliers up and down Pennsylvania Street. Per Lt. Seithalil, one of the subjets associated in my case is 16, 200 pounds, 6'2" and is obviously armed...possibly carrying my very loud colored vera bradley cross over bag in the "lucky you" pattern. Please be careful...with shotgun in hand...these kids have nothing to lose. We also have been patrolling in my suburban and my pitbull "dao" has decided to take an offensive stance to the yard when she comes out of the yard. Thank you for your vigilence.

16 years, 200 lbs 6'2.......sound familiar? I can't believe they are picking on these poor little children.
We are getting closer to nabbing these punks.
IWreckALot
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Fort Worth, TX, USA
3/25/2015 11:10am
Are we sure it's getting worse from a numbers stand point?

How much of this is it just media being more readily available? I think a lot of what we're seeing and hearing is just the media being available to cover rather than things getting worse.

I'd be interested to see how many people per capita are shot each year now vs. what it has been historically. There's just more people, and media.

Shiftfaced, I don't agree with any of your suggestions. Any idea of taking guns from citizens will fail in practice because criminals will simply not give their guns up. That would leave us with armed criminals vs. unarmed law abiding citizens. That is a worse idea than where we're at right now.

My suggestions are to implement a little more thorough check prior to allowing a gun purchase. Criminals can buy guns one way or another through a variety of different methods including trade shows and private party transactions to get around certain rules. The loopholes need to be closed including private party sales. The background check needs to be a little more inclusive. I don't mind spending 10 more minutes in the transaction process if it helps keep guns from the wrong people. Gun crimes need to be treated much differently and more harshly. Even in situations where the gun wasn't used, but criminals who shouldn't have guns are found with guns need to have the book thrown at them.

Fewer guns is probably the right idea, but you can't impose a law that punishes lawful ownership.
IWreckALot
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8677
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Location
Fort Worth, TX, USA
3/25/2015 11:11am
Crash82 wrote:
[b]The thugs that burglarized my home during broad daylight used the back yards behind McCarter to sqander my 40 inch flat screen, electronics, jewelry and other...
The thugs that burglarized my home during broad daylight used the back yards behind McCarter to sqander my 40 inch flat screen, electronics, jewelry and other valuable items. The two jackasses used my tablet to take pictures of their spoils and those picturs downloaded to my cloud and eventually made their way to my cell phone! The geo tag on the photos are within a 5 mile radius of my home...basically these monsters live in CH. One suspect is now taking pictures of two handguns. I put out fliers up and down Pennsylvania Street. Per Lt. Seithalil, one of the subjets associated in my case is 16, 200 pounds, 6'2" and is obviously armed...possibly carrying my very loud colored vera bradley cross over bag in the "lucky you" pattern. Please be careful...with shotgun in hand...these kids have nothing to lose. We also have been patrolling in my suburban and my pitbull "dao" has decided to take an offensive stance to the yard when she comes out of the yard. Thank you for your vigilence.

16 years, 200 lbs 6'2.......sound familiar? I can't believe they are picking on these poor little children.
We are getting closer to nabbing these punks.
He's innocent I swear.
XXVoid MainXX
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3/25/2015 11:16am
mxb2 wrote:
Anti gun people live in a fantasy world.
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Nah m8, I live in Australia
Hey, is Bob your uncle?
newmann
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USA
3/25/2015 11:57am
newmann wrote:
Are you required to be a good law abiding tax paying citizen before they will issue you a CHL like here in Texas? Delinquent on taxes...
Are you required to be a good law abiding tax paying citizen before they will issue you a CHL like here in Texas? Delinquent on taxes? No permit for you. Misdemeanors or felonies? No permit for you. No wonder the police like seeing people handing over a CHL along with their drivers license, they know they are dealing with good people. Well, maybe good racist people depending on who you ask???Blink
71Fish wrote:
Yes. As a matter of fact, in UT the police run a check every single day on CC permit holders. So if I'm stopped for anything...
Yes. As a matter of fact, in UT the police run a check every single day on CC permit holders. So if I'm stopped for anything, the police know I have a clean record. You aren't "required" by law to show the cop your permit, but it is in your best interest I would think. The advice the instructor gave was, hand over your drivers license and CC permit and inform the officer whether or not you are carrying.
IWreckALot wrote:
In Texas, I believe it is the law that you have to give them your CHL if you have one regardless if you're carrying or not...
In Texas, I believe it is the law that you have to give them your CHL if you have one regardless if you're carrying or not. I don't have a CHL, but I believe that is the case.
It's not the law as far as I know, but just good practice. If your DL gets run it will show that you are also a CHL holder. The officer will then know you may be carrying a gun and for one reason or other didn't bother to tell him. He may head back to your vehicle with a gun drawn...Wink

On the other hand, if you get stopped and you show him both and let him know where your weapon is you may be thanked for being a good honest hardworking non delinquent taxpaying citizen and sent on your way. At least one person who I got to attend the CHL class I sponsored already had that happen.
newmann
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3/25/2015 12:03pm
The government doesn't know what happened to $500,000,000.00 worth of their own weapons, ammo, helicopters and Humvees in Yemen but I'm going to lock my guns up in their storage facility? Someone just fell off the deep end with that!

Shiftfaced
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Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
3/25/2015 12:57pm Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 1:13pm
IWreckALot wrote:
Are we sure it's getting worse from a numbers stand point? How much of this is it just media being more readily available? I think a...
Are we sure it's getting worse from a numbers stand point?

How much of this is it just media being more readily available? I think a lot of what we're seeing and hearing is just the media being available to cover rather than things getting worse.

I'd be interested to see how many people per capita are shot each year now vs. what it has been historically. There's just more people, and media.

Shiftfaced, I don't agree with any of your suggestions. Any idea of taking guns from citizens will fail in practice because criminals will simply not give their guns up. That would leave us with armed criminals vs. unarmed law abiding citizens. That is a worse idea than where we're at right now.

My suggestions are to implement a little more thorough check prior to allowing a gun purchase. Criminals can buy guns one way or another through a variety of different methods including trade shows and private party transactions to get around certain rules. The loopholes need to be closed including private party sales. The background check needs to be a little more inclusive. I don't mind spending 10 more minutes in the transaction process if it helps keep guns from the wrong people. Gun crimes need to be treated much differently and more harshly. Even in situations where the gun wasn't used, but criminals who shouldn't have guns are found with guns need to have the book thrown at them.

Fewer guns is probably the right idea, but you can't impose a law that punishes lawful ownership.
I agree that criminals will not give up their guns. It also appears that law abiding citizens ALSO won't give up a gun. That creates a "rock and a hard place" for those of us who get caught in their cross-fire.


My perspective is that if we limit the number of guns they can get access to (close "loopholes", if they have a felony on their record, they cannot buy one, and if we limit the number of guns in a house that they can rob), eventually the number of guns they have access to will diminish.
A. DLeary
Posts
537
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Location
USA
3/25/2015 1:40pm
IWreckALot wrote:
Are we sure it's getting worse from a numbers stand point? How much of this is it just media being more readily available? I think a...
Are we sure it's getting worse from a numbers stand point?

How much of this is it just media being more readily available? I think a lot of what we're seeing and hearing is just the media being available to cover rather than things getting worse.

I'd be interested to see how many people per capita are shot each year now vs. what it has been historically. There's just more people, and media.

Shiftfaced, I don't agree with any of your suggestions. Any idea of taking guns from citizens will fail in practice because criminals will simply not give their guns up. That would leave us with armed criminals vs. unarmed law abiding citizens. That is a worse idea than where we're at right now.

My suggestions are to implement a little more thorough check prior to allowing a gun purchase. Criminals can buy guns one way or another through a variety of different methods including trade shows and private party transactions to get around certain rules. The loopholes need to be closed including private party sales. The background check needs to be a little more inclusive. I don't mind spending 10 more minutes in the transaction process if it helps keep guns from the wrong people. Gun crimes need to be treated much differently and more harshly. Even in situations where the gun wasn't used, but criminals who shouldn't have guns are found with guns need to have the book thrown at them.

Fewer guns is probably the right idea, but you can't impose a law that punishes lawful ownership.
Shiftfaced wrote:
I agree that criminals will not give up their guns. It also appears that law abiding citizens ALSO won't give up a gun. That creates a...
I agree that criminals will not give up their guns. It also appears that law abiding citizens ALSO won't give up a gun. That creates a "rock and a hard place" for those of us who get caught in their cross-fire.


My perspective is that if we limit the number of guns they can get access to (close "loopholes", if they have a felony on their record, they cannot buy one, and if we limit the number of guns in a house that they can rob), eventually the number of guns they have access to will diminish.
Why would they diminish? We've closed loopholes and changed laws for prescription opiates, and never saw a decrease in street drugs. It only made it so innocent, law abiding people struggle to get anything for pain of they actually need it.
3/25/2015 4:09pm
Heres an idea that im sure the left fielders will love.......Why not make the penalties for gun related crime so unthinkable that even the thugs themselves wont want one. Like perhaps no second chance........commit a crime...ANY CRIME against another human with a gun and you go away for good! No eligibility for parole, PERIOD!!!
Have a prior record......get caught with a gun......25 years! No eligibility for early parole!

Would that work? would that put a dent in the crime rates?
Skippie
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886
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Location
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3/25/2015 5:12pm
Heres an idea that im sure the left fielders will love.......Why not make the penalties for gun related crime so unthinkable that even the thugs themselves...
Heres an idea that im sure the left fielders will love.......Why not make the penalties for gun related crime so unthinkable that even the thugs themselves wont want one. Like perhaps no second chance........commit a crime...ANY CRIME against another human with a gun and you go away for good! No eligibility for parole, PERIOD!!!
Have a prior record......get caught with a gun......25 years! No eligibility for early parole!

Would that work? would that put a dent in the crime rates?
I doubt it. Look at the penalties for murder, Life without parole or the death penalty, I don't see the number of homicides going down. That's the thing with dealing with criminals, they're law breakers by definition, why would making a new law be any hindrance to them?
3/25/2015 7:10pm
"I doubt it. Look at the penalties for murder, Life without parole or the death penalty",

ehh..? not always......
I agree the penalty for murder is usually severe....but its not enough. Look at all the shootings that happen that never result in a death. All the 7/11 robberies, home invasions, car jackings etc etc etc......while using a gun. I think if you make it a mandatory 25year or longer sentence instead of just 2 to 3 and 1 more on house arrest I think it would start to make a difference.

I say fill the prisons up! If they are not out on the street the crime rate cant do anything but go down.
No doubt some shootings will still happen.....you'll always have the ones that think they can get away with it........Im talking about taking the ones off the street that we DO catch and them keep them from becoming repeat offenders.
A. DLeary
Posts
537
Joined
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Location
USA
3/25/2015 10:59pm
Heres an idea that im sure the left fielders will love.......Why not make the penalties for gun related crime so unthinkable that even the thugs themselves...
Heres an idea that im sure the left fielders will love.......Why not make the penalties for gun related crime so unthinkable that even the thugs themselves wont want one. Like perhaps no second chance........commit a crime...ANY CRIME against another human with a gun and you go away for good! No eligibility for parole, PERIOD!!!
Have a prior record......get caught with a gun......25 years! No eligibility for early parole!

Would that work? would that put a dent in the crime rates?
Nope.
People want to fix the symptoms and ignore the disease that cause said symptoms.
71Fish
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1794
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Ogden, UT, USA
3/26/2015 5:38am
Bill O'Reilly talks a lot about long mandatory minimums for gun crimes. I agree.

Post a reply to: Good guy with a gun...hell yeah!

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