Motocross Family Needs Your Help to Battle Township Board

MotoX85
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2198
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10/9/2011
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Centralia, IL, USA
11/12/2014 7:14am
Really, Pete? I may have blown my combat tour pay on our son's passion. Surprised that we would get that type of response in this community...
Really, Pete? I may have blown my combat tour pay on our son's passion. Surprised that we would get that type of response in this community forum...not a problem, though brother...thanks.
And I got a question, exactly what is combat tour pay? 28 year veteran hear, would really like to know how you bank 18 grand in "combat tour pay"
KTMShane699
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1307
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Location
Colchester, CT, USA
11/12/2014 7:42am
TailSoHard wrote:
First of all, thank you for serving, you deserve to be able to build your kid a motocross track, so don't let these numbskulls get you...
First of all, thank you for serving, you deserve to be able to build your kid a motocross track, so don't let these numbskulls get you down about spending your hard-earned money on whatever you want.

Secondly, I cannot believe the reaction from some of these people! You guys should just be happy that there are people out there still building tracks and places for kids to learn to ride. Money-wise, it's no different than someone buying a new KTM (or two, or three) every year, especially when moto is your passion (and when you have a family full of riders). I've never been so disappointed in the moto community... I thought we were better than that...

Lastly, maybe it was edited, but I don't see where he was asking for money... There was already another thread where they were simply asking for help and support, and they received all kinds of reassurance that we are all on the same side and that we would help in any way we could: http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Michigan-track-needs-your… and now all people can say is "nah, fuck that guy, he has money that he should have spent somewhere else..." Fuck that! Even if I don't get to ride there, I don't want to see anyone lose their riding area, especially someone who has the resources to help stimulate the motocross economy. I don't know if you guys have noticed, but the motocross world can use all the support it can get, and I know I can't afford to go out and build a track or even go buy a new bike, so maybe it's not a bad thing that he used his hard-earned money to fuel his family's passion.

What if Stewart, Villopoto, Windham, Mcgrath, Dungey, Roczen, etc had posted up that their own personal tracks were being threatened to be shut down?? I'm sure you guys would all drop to your knees and open your mouths at the chance to help them out, but since you don't know this guy, he's suddenly a douchebag?? Whatever... I guess I just don't understand


You missed the original post before it was edited where he talked about spending $18,000 on the track and had a link to a crowdfunding site asking for $4,000 to pay legal fees. So that's where the question of asking for money comes in. He has a private track for his son to ride on, which is great. He's welcome to spend his dollars anywhere he wants.

But to fund his fight against the town for him, is a different issue. It's not like this is a public track that's being threatened. I've never called him names, and neither have most of the people here. They've simply voiced that they won't contribute to the cause. He took the time to ask in a public forum, and people have taken the time to reply in the same public forum. It became a matter of public opinion (or vital opinion) the moment that he brought it to vital with his hand out.

I don't think the guy is a douchebag. I just don't think his situation was received with the outpouring of support that he anticipated it might be. One family doesn't represent all of moto. It represents one family with one situation. A tiny snapshot of moto as a whole.

Shane
Sixeightone
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Location
Central, CT, USA
11/12/2014 7:44am
The sarcasm was totally missed. All of you guys are standing at the end of the runway...
TailSoHard
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1656
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Location
Beer City, MI, USA
11/12/2014 8:08am
TailSoHard wrote:
First of all, thank you for serving, you deserve to be able to build your kid a motocross track, so don't let these numbskulls get you...
First of all, thank you for serving, you deserve to be able to build your kid a motocross track, so don't let these numbskulls get you down about spending your hard-earned money on whatever you want.

Secondly, I cannot believe the reaction from some of these people! You guys should just be happy that there are people out there still building tracks and places for kids to learn to ride. Money-wise, it's no different than someone buying a new KTM (or two, or three) every year, especially when moto is your passion (and when you have a family full of riders). I've never been so disappointed in the moto community... I thought we were better than that...

Lastly, maybe it was edited, but I don't see where he was asking for money... There was already another thread where they were simply asking for help and support, and they received all kinds of reassurance that we are all on the same side and that we would help in any way we could: http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Michigan-track-needs-your… and now all people can say is "nah, fuck that guy, he has money that he should have spent somewhere else..." Fuck that! Even if I don't get to ride there, I don't want to see anyone lose their riding area, especially someone who has the resources to help stimulate the motocross economy. I don't know if you guys have noticed, but the motocross world can use all the support it can get, and I know I can't afford to go out and build a track or even go buy a new bike, so maybe it's not a bad thing that he used his hard-earned money to fuel his family's passion.

What if Stewart, Villopoto, Windham, Mcgrath, Dungey, Roczen, etc had posted up that their own personal tracks were being threatened to be shut down?? I'm sure you guys would all drop to your knees and open your mouths at the chance to help them out, but since you don't know this guy, he's suddenly a douchebag?? Whatever... I guess I just don't understand


You missed the original post before it was edited where he talked about spending $18,000 on the track and had a link to a crowdfunding site...
You missed the original post before it was edited where he talked about spending $18,000 on the track and had a link to a crowdfunding site asking for $4,000 to pay legal fees. So that's where the question of asking for money comes in. He has a private track for his son to ride on, which is great. He's welcome to spend his dollars anywhere he wants.

But to fund his fight against the town for him, is a different issue. It's not like this is a public track that's being threatened. I've never called him names, and neither have most of the people here. They've simply voiced that they won't contribute to the cause. He took the time to ask in a public forum, and people have taken the time to reply in the same public forum. It became a matter of public opinion (or vital opinion) the moment that he brought it to vital with his hand out.

I don't think the guy is a douchebag. I just don't think his situation was received with the outpouring of support that he anticipated it might be. One family doesn't represent all of moto. It represents one family with one situation. A tiny snapshot of moto as a whole.

Shane
Sorry, I may have overreacted a tad (work's got me a little cranky this morning lol), but yes, I didn't see the part about him asking for money, so I could only make my assumptions based on what is currently posted. Anywho... I still can't wrap my head around the fact that people just sit there and tell him that they won't help him out. In my opinion, the correct response to him asking for money would be "Unfortunately, I can't help you with the money portion, but if you give me the contact info for your local township office, I am more than happy to voice my support for you, your son, and your track." I'm sure he'll take all the help he can get, monetary or otherwise.

The Shop

Sixeightone
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Central, CT, USA
11/12/2014 8:10am
So who's got an exhaust for a CR500AF they wanna donate?!
Gym Briggs
Posts
656
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Location
Scottsville, NY, USA
11/12/2014 8:24am
My Family has 56 acres in Rural Western New York next to the NYS Thruway. We fought for 10+ years. We had to take down our private track. Can only ride 2 at a time. the town came at us anyway but sound even though that was the issue. We got convicted of destroying natural vegetation in a plowed cornfield in the middle of November! Also the town has a law on the books that you can't own or operate a motocross school in our town cause my dad had a DBA for one over 20 years before all of this. My advice would be get a good out of town attorney. You could also try paying off town officials. Those are the 2 things we didn't try but probably would have worked. Good luck in your fight.

1 thing I can say to the people who ask why support? Cause before you know it they will be coming to your area. Then using their case against you. Already happen to a couple people we know due to us not having success against the town. They don't need sound to stop you. We were running a decibel test with 6 bikes at the same time. They thruway was still louder. Town of Chili,NY VS Austin.
11/12/2014 9:51am
Really, Pete? I may have blown my combat tour pay on our son's passion. Surprised that we would get that type of response in this community...
Really, Pete? I may have blown my combat tour pay on our son's passion. Surprised that we would get that type of response in this community forum...not a problem, though brother...thanks.
MotoX85 wrote:
And I got a question, exactly what is combat tour pay? 28 year veteran hear, would really like to know how you bank 18 grand in...
And I got a question, exactly what is combat tour pay? 28 year veteran hear, would really like to know how you bank 18 grand in "combat tour pay"
I'm pretty sure he is referring to the imminent danger pay and tax free exclusion that a service members get while serving in a combat zone.
11/12/2014 1:09pm
Wow...in the words already "spoken" by Tailsohard...we are, to say the least, unpleasantly surprised by the bullcrap, disrespectful and sarcastic posts and responses...bottom line: if you do not know what case law is, shame on you. This is the last place/forum my wife and I thought we would get these type of responses. If the shoe was on the other foot, we would one donate/contribute because we understand the precedence (potential thereof) that is and can [will] be set each and every time someone's track, private or commercial, is shut down. We took down the post regarding our fundraising campaign as it is clear that the MX community outside of our "local" community is unable/unwilling to interpret what our case means for the region and the nation...case law is precedence and when YOU wanna construct a track on YOUR property the "government" will have that much more of a leg to stand on when they combat YOUR son or daughter's prized possession, of which I am sure YOU who responded so ungraciously wish you had for your child, or even for yourself. But, thanks for the sarcasm and for not understanding the big picture...if you do not want to contribute, just respond that you support the effort and leave out the bullcrap...WE are truly deeply engrained in the MX community and would help anyone/someone else in the same position...our sport is in constant jeopardy of becoming less and less populated and more and more easily scrutinized because we, like in this case for instance, cannot and/or choose not to see what the negative potential a case (if we lose for whatever reason, and our case is strong due to reliance on information we obtained from the Township Supervisor/Zoning administrator prior to us even making an offer. Make no mistake about it, if you do not want to help, then don't...however, as you can see, we are not the only ones surprised and unpleasantly taken by your lack of "give a shit" and smart allic responses...I am sorry that you all feel as you do.

As for my "combat tour pay", last I checked that was our business...but in short, an officer with 19 years of service (combined active and reserve) makes very very good money while deployed...and guess what, he or she doesn't spend any of it while they are deployed...but does it really matter? Again, we are disappointed in the responses and lack of care and inept ability to see the big picture here. Unfortunately, the township is using just that...case law of other private track owners that have lost their cases (i.e. tracks) as a result of running the owner's dry and in essence by virtue of lack of legal support winning their case because of a "good" attorney and a well established argument...we have retained a very good municipal attorney and he no shit says we have a good case against the township...but it will cost a lot of money to fight back and win, for us AND ultimately for the rest of us/YOU that want tracks in your "backyard"...but I digress.

P.S. Anyone that wants to truly help us help the entire MX community as Tailsohard already put it, then let me know via a post in this forum/thread...and thank you.

Curtis Allen
Vicksburg, Michigan
JBernard_401
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1317
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Location
Boulder, CO, USA
11/12/2014 1:12pm
So who's got an exhaust for a CR500AF they wanna donate?!
i got a fmf gnarly cr500 pipe for sale!
huck
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17039
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Mountain Home, AR, USA
11/12/2014 1:14pm
So you're mad that you signed up to a message board, where you knew nobody, most members have been here for YEARS, stuck your hand out, and nobody filled it? Is that the gist of it???


TailSoHard
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Beer City, MI, USA
11/12/2014 1:20pm
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when he came to this (so-called) community for help, all he got in response was "no thanks, you haven't been here long enough for me to give a shit about your track."

huck
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Mountain Home, AR, USA
11/12/2014 1:22pm
TailSoHard wrote:
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when...
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when he came to this (so-called) community for help, all he got in response was "no thanks, you haven't been here long enough for me to give a shit about your track."

Most communities are filled with friends...who will help each other...but when somebody just drives through your community with their hand out, don't expect the friends to fill it.
huck
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17039
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Mountain Home, AR, USA
11/12/2014 1:26pm
TailSoHard wrote:
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when...
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when he came to this (so-called) community for help, all he got in response was "no thanks, you haven't been here long enough for me to give a shit about your track."

huck wrote:
Most communities are filled with friends...who will help each other...but when somebody just drives through your community with their hand out, don't expect the friends to...
Most communities are filled with friends...who will help each other...but when somebody just drives through your community with their hand out, don't expect the friends to fill it.
11/12/2014 1:32pm
Thank you again...sadly, we cannot and will not let our 11 year son and racer see the bullcrap that just keeps coming out of other so-called "friends" in his supposed community of like-minded and passionate MX enthusiasts, the only sporting community he cares about or associates with...sad example, young or old brother...sad. I do, however, laugh at the fact you think signing into Vital only 2 weeks ago makes me a "newbie" and not a friend...too funny and again, sad.

Again, my name is Curtis Allen and my son's name is Trevor Allen #623. Remember, it is a small world...tread lightly and remember what goes around comes around...remember, we trade and sell parts in the pits and on the track, share camping supplies, sit around campfires, etc...pay it forward...be sure to look for us and ask us if you need help, we will NOT hesitate.
Sixeightone
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362
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Location
Central, CT, USA
11/12/2014 1:33pm
still looking for suspension stuff too if anybody has any of that it would be greatly appreciated. I just set up a GOFUNDME account!!!
MiSledder
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252
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Location
USA
11/12/2014 1:33pm
Hey guys, I've been building a CR500AF and well I've invested nearly thousands into it and it's my pride and joy! I almost have it completed...
Hey guys, I've been building a CR500AF and well I've invested nearly thousands into it and it's my pride and joy! I almost have it completed and my girlfriend decides she wants to get married... Yikes right!! I still have to get some suspension work done and need to get a pipe and some bars but I already blew my load on everything else and now I have to pay for a damn wedding. So who's gonna help me with finishing the bike of my dreams!!
seriously?
TailSoHard
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1656
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Beer City, MI, USA
11/12/2014 1:34pm
TailSoHard wrote:
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when...
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when he came to this (so-called) community for help, all he got in response was "no thanks, you haven't been here long enough for me to give a shit about your track."

huck wrote:
Most communities are filled with friends...who will help each other...but when somebody just drives through your community with their hand out, don't expect the friends to...
Most communities are filled with friends...who will help each other...but when somebody just drives through your community with their hand out, don't expect the friends to fill it.
I can't think of a better way to drive people away from the sport and this community than telling them that they need to be our friends before we'll help them out... That's like saying you won't donate to cure cancer because none of your friends or family has cancer... Or you won't give a tube to a guy stranded on the side of the trail with a flat tire because you don't know him. My momma raised me better than that.

And again, even if he did come here for money, there are other ways of helping a fellow rider out without emptying your pockets. More people on his side will have a greater impact than more money will
huck
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17039
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Location
Mountain Home, AR, USA
11/12/2014 1:36pm
TailSoHard wrote:
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when...
I don't think he's MAD at anyone other than the people that are trying shut down his track... I think he's a little perturbed that when he came to this (so-called) community for help, all he got in response was "no thanks, you haven't been here long enough for me to give a shit about your track."

huck wrote:
Most communities are filled with friends...who will help each other...but when somebody just drives through your community with their hand out, don't expect the friends to...
Most communities are filled with friends...who will help each other...but when somebody just drives through your community with their hand out, don't expect the friends to fill it.
TailSoHard wrote:
I can't think of a better way to drive people away from the sport and this community than telling them that they need to be our...
I can't think of a better way to drive people away from the sport and this community than telling them that they need to be our friends before we'll help them out... That's like saying you won't donate to cure cancer because none of your friends or family has cancer... Or you won't give a tube to a guy stranded on the side of the trail with a flat tire because you don't know him. My momma raised me better than that.

And again, even if he did come here for money, there are other ways of helping a fellow rider out without emptying your pockets. More people on his side will have a greater impact than more money will
Well....bye...
#991
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Melbourne, AU
11/12/2014 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2015 3:44am
Thank you again...sadly, we cannot and will not let our 11 year son and racer see the bullcrap that just keeps coming out of other so-called...
Thank you again...sadly, we cannot and will not let our 11 year son and racer see the bullcrap that just keeps coming out of other so-called "friends" in his supposed community of like-minded and passionate MX enthusiasts, the only sporting community he cares about or associates with...sad example, young or old brother...sad. I do, however, laugh at the fact you think signing into Vital only 2 weeks ago makes me a "newbie" and not a friend...too funny and again, sad.

Again, my name is Curtis Allen and my son's name is Trevor Allen #623. Remember, it is a small world...tread lightly and remember what goes around comes around...remember, we trade and sell parts in the pits and on the track, share camping supplies, sit around campfires, etc...pay it forward...be sure to look for us and ask us if you need help, we will NOT hesitate.
...
#991
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Melbourne, AU
11/12/2014 2:02pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2015 3:44am
Thank you, #991.
...
seth505
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10214
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Location
SD, CA, USA
11/12/2014 2:12pm
Hmm, my dad drove me to races once a month at most and told me if I want a nice bike then I had to save up to buy it and also maintain it. Now that I've been working for years I might start a gofundme page so I can have the sickest bike at the Vet nationals. Hell ya

As a side note, helping each other in the pits is a different story than helping someone with their private track. I'm all for giving a bro a tube at the track if he needs it to ride as well, good on you in that regard.
GuyB
Posts
35722
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Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
11/12/2014 2:16pm
Thank you again...sadly, we cannot and will not let our 11 year son and racer see the bullcrap that just keeps coming out of other so-called...
Thank you again...sadly, we cannot and will not let our 11 year son and racer see the bullcrap that just keeps coming out of other so-called "friends" in his supposed community of like-minded and passionate MX enthusiasts, the only sporting community he cares about or associates with...sad example, young or old brother...sad. I do, however, laugh at the fact you think signing into Vital only 2 weeks ago makes me a "newbie" and not a friend...too funny and again, sad.

Again, my name is Curtis Allen and my son's name is Trevor Allen #623. Remember, it is a small world...tread lightly and remember what goes around comes around...remember, we trade and sell parts in the pits and on the track, share camping supplies, sit around campfires, etc...pay it forward...be sure to look for us and ask us if you need help, we will NOT hesitate.
Curtis,

I didn't see the original message, so I can only go by what others have posted to get the context of what it was.

That said, here are a few things to consider...

It seems you stepped in it a bit with the original post. I'm all for supporting riders, friends, and causes. In fact, I made a small donation on behalf of a friend of mine today to help with costs related to his wife's breast cancer treatment.

I'm not sure how long you'd been reading the site before signing up (or if you had), but if you'd checked out the forum rules before jumping in, you'd see a portion of it is devoted to checking out the vibe of the board. That's important.

If your original message was bad enough to generate the kind of response that it did...maybe there was a reason for it. I've seen lots of people come in and ask for support in keeping tracks open. That includes some private ones. Sound issues (and keeping the peace with regards to neighbors) is part of the sport. Always has been, always will be.

Messages like the one above don't add to the warm and fuzzy feeling that you're looking for. You're kicking the hornet's nest, and still wondering why the hornets are coming back to say hi. I wish you all the best on keeping the track up and running, and finding a way to make peace with the city and your neighbors. But if you react to them the same way you're reacting here, they're likely to dig in their heels and push back, much like you've seen here.

Maybe you can learn something from what happened here that you can apply to your dealings with the folks there.
11/12/2014 2:17pm
Seth...Yes, Sir...it is. You don't have a track...and probably never will...and I am sorry for that. Thanks for your support.
11/12/2014 2:18pm
My God...unbelievable...notifications off. Thank you to those who are mature and understand our situation and the big picture. Take care.
seth505
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SD, CA, USA
11/12/2014 2:21pm
Seth...Yes, Sir...it is. You don't have a track...and probably never will...and I am sorry for that. Thanks for your support.
Perhaps we both were not meant to have tracks. Bummer
Skippie
Posts
886
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Location
USA
11/12/2014 2:22pm Edited Date/Time 11/12/2014 2:23pm
Seth...Yes, Sir...it is. You don't have a track...and probably never will...and I am sorry for that. Thanks for your support.
You payed the money for your track, now pay for your own legal fees. Simple as that, most of us here were pretty respectful in explaining why weren't going to donate to your cause. Your argument that your case will set the precedent for private tracks is untrue. There have been many cases of private owners vs. city counsels, cases of both wins and losses. You getting upset that people aren't gung ho to support your cause isn't going to help anything. Your son is very lucky to have a dad like you willing to build that for him but like I have pointed out before, if I could donate to your lawyer bills or Todd Krieg's medical bills where do you think my money is going?
KTMShane699
Posts
1307
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Location
Colchester, CT, USA
11/12/2014 2:33pm
My God...unbelievable...notifications off. Thank you to those who are mature and understand our situation and the big picture. Take care.
With this kind of attitude, it's difficult to imagine why the town is pushing back and why you're struggling to gain support here. For you to even assume what members here have or don't have is asinine at best. To think we're all jealous of your track is creating a false sense of elitism in your own mind.

There are those here who are successful and have plenty. There are those that are working their way to that point in life. And there are those that are just starting. For you to insinuate that you know who has, and who doesn't is about as short sighted as you can get.

I'll put it out there...If I wanted the headache of my own track, I'd have one. It's not that I can't afford one now. I was lucky to have one growing up. Your cause could have been supported. Your delivery and approach were what made the response what it was. Instead of painting the picture of closing riding areas, sound issues, etc...you simply said you spent $18,000 on a track and now want people to donate to the legal fees to keep the track open for your son. Then took offense when people decided to voice their feelings on the request. You approached in a public forum. And received answers in a public forum. It just wasn't the answer you anticipated.

To think that we are against the sport simply because we won't donate to your cause is quite a leap to come to that conclusion. You have no idea what people here do with their dollars. There are track users, track owners and track supporters here. Given the choice to donate to your cause against a rider down or supporting a public track...I'm sorry to say that your cause is the one that gets pushed to the bottom of the list.

Like GuyB said, I hope that you can learn from this experience and how you've approached a group. Try a more tactful approach in the future and you just might find better results. And don't make so many bold assumptions about your audience and their means...

Best of luck to you in the future,
Shane
Tracktor
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2343
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The RTF/Amboy, WA, USA
11/12/2014 2:44pm
I missed the original post but what is the specific complaint against the track? Also, did you not do any due diligence prior to building? Can't really offer support when don't know what the actual issue?

I do have a private track but built it myself. I have $25k+ into it and prior to moving dirt made sure the neighbors were on my side. I also bought the property with having a track in mind; surrounded by trees, dead end road, etc. I have a back-up plan in case things go south but it doesn't involve attorneys........

As for feeling attacked -Welcome to the interwebs. It could be worse, you could have been ignored................
Torco1
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Corona, CA, USA
11/12/2014 3:02pm
The simplest solution to all of this would be for your neighbors to "have an accident".

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