The IV issue

8/2/2014 11:15am
James does not need any help tarnishing his image. He does fine all by himself. The nurse thing is not a rumor...it happened.
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has a nurse at the races to administer iv's between motos. There's a big difference between the two but that hasn't stopped people from throwing out accusations of cheating which are certainly geared toward tarnishing his reputation.
Regis
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8/2/2014 11:32am Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 11:42am
James does not need any help tarnishing his image. He does fine all by himself. The nurse thing is not a rumor...it happened.
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has...
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has a nurse at the races to administer iv's between motos. There's a big difference between the two but that hasn't stopped people from throwing out accusations of cheating which are certainly geared toward tarnishing his reputation.
Not to rain on your parade but,

Didn't this whole debacle start because the "nurse" told people at the AMA trailer she had to get a pass because she was there to administer James' IV's? She probably didn't know the rules.

She was the one who said the wrong thing to the wrong people. Thats is how I understood it.

If you have your own nurse, administering your own IV's, you are doing so because you know it is illegal and you are keeping it on the down low. It is not because you don't want to walk over to the Asterisk rig and get in line. For anyone to think any different is just dumb. Regardless if you think IV's should be legal or not, the rule is, if you get one you are done for the day. Yes they are available if you need them, but you take one and you are done. It has always been like that. All the riders know that.



8/2/2014 11:32am Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 11:33am
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has...
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has a nurse at the races to administer iv's between motos. There's a big difference between the two but that hasn't stopped people from throwing out accusations of cheating which are certainly geared toward tarnishing his reputation.
When people close to the situation (Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes) essentially agree that James was likely cheating, the people on this forum are not really "throwing out accusations of cheating" but merely repeating information learned from a reliable source.

Before you predictably discount those sources, would you please go ahead and point me towards a legitimate source that has purported James as guilt free in this situation?
8/2/2014 11:41am
Regis wrote:
Not to rain on your parade but, Didn't this whole debacle start because the "nurse" told people at the AMA trailer she had to get a...
Not to rain on your parade but,

Didn't this whole debacle start because the "nurse" told people at the AMA trailer she had to get a pass because she was there to administer James' IV's? She probably didn't know the rules.

She was the one who said the wrong thing to the wrong people. Thats is how I understood it.

If you have your own nurse, administering your own IV's, you are doing so because you know it is illegal and you are keeping it on the down low. It is not because you don't want to walk over to the Asterisk rig and get in line. For anyone to think any different is just dumb. Regardless if you think IV's should be legal or not, the rule is, if you get one you are done for the day. Yes they are available if you need them, but you take one and you are done. It has always been like that. All the riders know that.



When did the nurse say that she was there to administer an iv between motos? Is there a recording that I missed?

The Shop

8/2/2014 11:45am Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 11:46am
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has...
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has a nurse at the races to administer iv's between motos. There's a big difference between the two but that hasn't stopped people from throwing out accusations of cheating which are certainly geared toward tarnishing his reputation.
TripleFive wrote:
When people close to the situation (Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes) essentially agree that James was likely cheating, the people on this forum are not really "throwing...
When people close to the situation (Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes) essentially agree that James was likely cheating, the people on this forum are not really "throwing out accusations of cheating" but merely repeating information learned from a reliable source.

Before you predictably discount those sources, would you please go ahead and point me towards a legitimate source that has purported James as guilt free in this situation?
I don't have to report any source. Unless Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes were witnesses to an iv being administered between motos to James Stewart, it is nothing more than hearsay. Hearsay does not constitute evidence against or guilt, and James Stewart is not guilty until proved innocent just because there are doubters. You've conveniently flipped the burden of proof around here.

By the way, do you have a link to where Weege, JT$ and Matthes said these things?
Regis
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8/2/2014 11:49am
Regis wrote:
Not to rain on your parade but, Didn't this whole debacle start because the "nurse" told people at the AMA trailer she had to get a...
Not to rain on your parade but,

Didn't this whole debacle start because the "nurse" told people at the AMA trailer she had to get a pass because she was there to administer James' IV's? She probably didn't know the rules.

She was the one who said the wrong thing to the wrong people. Thats is how I understood it.

If you have your own nurse, administering your own IV's, you are doing so because you know it is illegal and you are keeping it on the down low. It is not because you don't want to walk over to the Asterisk rig and get in line. For anyone to think any different is just dumb. Regardless if you think IV's should be legal or not, the rule is, if you get one you are done for the day. Yes they are available if you need them, but you take one and you are done. It has always been like that. All the riders know that.



When did the nurse say that she was there to administer an iv between motos? Is there a recording that I missed?
JS will not get into trouble because there will never be any way to prove he took an IV in between motos - simple as that.

If you think for one minute that she was there and not administering it in between motos, you probably still believe in the easter bunny and Santa Claus too, because there really is no definable proof they don't exist.

You can believe whatever you choose to believe. It's all good.
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8/2/2014 11:52am
Wait, there's no Santa?!!! WTF?! Sad Sad Sad
8/2/2014 11:54am Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 11:57am
Regis wrote:
Not to rain on your parade but, Didn't this whole debacle start because the "nurse" told people at the AMA trailer she had to get a...
Not to rain on your parade but,

Didn't this whole debacle start because the "nurse" told people at the AMA trailer she had to get a pass because she was there to administer James' IV's? She probably didn't know the rules.

She was the one who said the wrong thing to the wrong people. Thats is how I understood it.

If you have your own nurse, administering your own IV's, you are doing so because you know it is illegal and you are keeping it on the down low. It is not because you don't want to walk over to the Asterisk rig and get in line. For anyone to think any different is just dumb. Regardless if you think IV's should be legal or not, the rule is, if you get one you are done for the day. Yes they are available if you need them, but you take one and you are done. It has always been like that. All the riders know that.



When did the nurse say that she was there to administer an iv between motos? Is there a recording that I missed?
Regis wrote:
JS will not get into trouble because there will never be any way to prove he took an IV in between motos - simple as that...
JS will not get into trouble because there will never be any way to prove he took an IV in between motos - simple as that.

If you think for one minute that she was there and not administering it in between motos, you probably still believe in the easter bunny and Santa Claus too, because there really is no definable proof they don't exist.

You can believe whatever you choose to believe. It's all good.
So you believe as well that RV was doping? I mean, if being incredulous equals guilt...

We can't prove otherwise.

That's the same type of reasoning that people use who have unjustly accused RV of using peds.

Of course, I am using that example not to accuse RV of cheating, but to make the point that just because it can't be proved otherwise, and just because there are skeptics, it doesn't mean that RV is guilty.
Regis
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8/2/2014 11:55am
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has...
I'm not disputing that James had a nurse, what I'm saying is that it went from James has a nurse at the races to James has a nurse at the races to administer iv's between motos. There's a big difference between the two but that hasn't stopped people from throwing out accusations of cheating which are certainly geared toward tarnishing his reputation.
TripleFive wrote:
When people close to the situation (Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes) essentially agree that James was likely cheating, the people on this forum are not really "throwing...
When people close to the situation (Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes) essentially agree that James was likely cheating, the people on this forum are not really "throwing out accusations of cheating" but merely repeating information learned from a reliable source.

Before you predictably discount those sources, would you please go ahead and point me towards a legitimate source that has purported James as guilt free in this situation?
I don't have to report any source. Unless Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes were witnesses to an iv being administered between motos to James Stewart, it is...
I don't have to report any source. Unless Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes were witnesses to an iv being administered between motos to James Stewart, it is nothing more than hearsay. Hearsay does not constitute evidence against or guilt, and James Stewart is not guilty until proved innocent just because there are doubters. You've conveniently flipped the burden of proof around here.

By the way, do you have a link to where Weege, JT$ and Matthes said these things?
You would make a great lawyer, if you aren't already one.

Like I said above, JS will not get in any trouble. You are right... There is no absolute proof and there never will be.

But the court of public opinion and his peers have already convicted him due to the overwhelmingly large amount of circumstantial evidence.
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8/2/2014 11:56am Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 11:57am
When did the nurse say that she was there to administer an iv between motos? Is there a recording that I missed?
Regis wrote:
JS will not get into trouble because there will never be any way to prove he took an IV in between motos - simple as that...
JS will not get into trouble because there will never be any way to prove he took an IV in between motos - simple as that.

If you think for one minute that she was there and not administering it in between motos, you probably still believe in the easter bunny and Santa Claus too, because there really is no definable proof they don't exist.

You can believe whatever you choose to believe. It's all good.
So you believe as well that RV was doping? I mean, if being incredulous equals guilt... We can't prove otherwise. That's the same type of reasoning...
So you believe as well that RV was doping? I mean, if being incredulous equals guilt...

We can't prove otherwise.

That's the same type of reasoning that people use who have unjustly accused RV of using peds.

Of course, I am using that example not to accuse RV of cheating, but to make the point that just because it can't be proved otherwise, and just because there are skeptics, it doesn't mean that RV is guilty.
Has someone showed up to a race, and said they were there to help RV cheat? Fuck no!

Get your head out of the sand.... It's embarrassing.
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8/2/2014 11:58am
Circumstantial evidence otherwise know as common sense or employing Ockam's Razor
8/2/2014 11:59am
MxKing809 wrote:
Has someone showed up to a race, and said they were there to help RV cheat? Fuck no! Get your head out of the sand.... It's...
Has someone showed up to a race, and said they were there to help RV cheat? Fuck no!

Get your head out of the sand.... It's embarrassing.
Where did Stewart's nurse say that she was there to help Stewart cheat?
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8/2/2014 12:03pm
Who did she say this to? I keep asking this question with no response.
8/2/2014 12:03pm
Zracer wrote:
Circumstantial evidence otherwise know as common sense or employing Ockam's Razor
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence to convict Stewart since it could not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. It would be thrown out, and that should tell you something about what you think is "circumstantial evidence". lex parsimoniae has very little to do here with guilt or innocence since the simplest explanation isn't necessarily the true one.
8/2/2014 12:05pm
Regis wrote:
You would make a great lawyer, if you aren't already one. Like I said above, JS will not get in any trouble. You are right... There...
You would make a great lawyer, if you aren't already one.

Like I said above, JS will not get in any trouble. You are right... There is no absolute proof and there never will be.

But the court of public opinion and his peers have already convicted him due to the overwhelmingly large amount of circumstantial evidence.
What circumstantial evidence? I've asked this a couple of times and no one has laid any out. What you have is a nurse who said that she was there to administer an iv to Stewart. That is not evidence that she was there to administer an iv to Stewart between motos. You have no circumstantial evidence, you have incredulity and are confusing the two.

Regis
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8/2/2014 12:05pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 12:10pm
When did the nurse say that she was there to administer an iv between motos? Is there a recording that I missed?
Regis wrote:
JS will not get into trouble because there will never be any way to prove he took an IV in between motos - simple as that...
JS will not get into trouble because there will never be any way to prove he took an IV in between motos - simple as that.

If you think for one minute that she was there and not administering it in between motos, you probably still believe in the easter bunny and Santa Claus too, because there really is no definable proof they don't exist.

You can believe whatever you choose to believe. It's all good.
So you believe as well that RV was doping? I mean, if being incredulous equals guilt... We can't prove otherwise. That's the same type of reasoning...
So you believe as well that RV was doping? I mean, if being incredulous equals guilt...

We can't prove otherwise.

That's the same type of reasoning that people use who have unjustly accused RV of using peds.

Of course, I am using that example not to accuse RV of cheating, but to make the point that just because it can't be proved otherwise, and just because there are skeptics, it doesn't mean that RV is guilty.
I would believe RV was doping if one of his "people" showed up without a credential and asked for one while stating "I am here to give RV his injection of PED's, I need to get in" - I do know, that isn't how PED's work but seriously, it would take a failed test or something like that for me to believe the "rumors" of RV cheating.

It is my understanding RV has been tested and has never tested positive.


You can't test positive for getting an IV. You can cheat and do it all day long without getting caught, as long as your nurse doesn't show up and tell people what she is doing
8/2/2014 12:06pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Who did she say this to? I keep asking this question with no response.
I think in this case, your signature file is appropriate. Wink
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8/2/2014 12:06pm
Zracer wrote:
Circumstantial evidence otherwise know as common sense or employing Ockam's Razor
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence...
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence to convict Stewart since it could not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. It would be thrown out, and that should tell you something about what you think is "circumstantial evidence". lex parsimoniae has very little to do here with guilt or innocence since the simplest explanation isn't necessarily the true one.
While you're right for the court of law.... This is motocross. There are highly regarded and connected individuals that truly believe the nurse was there to aid in mid-Moto IV's based on the information available to them. That's all I need to know.
8/2/2014 12:07pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 12:07pm
I don't have to report any source. Unless Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes were witnesses to an iv being administered between motos to James Stewart, it is...
I don't have to report any source. Unless Weigandt, JT$, and Matthes were witnesses to an iv being administered between motos to James Stewart, it is nothing more than hearsay. Hearsay does not constitute evidence against or guilt, and James Stewart is not guilty until proved innocent just because there are doubters. You've conveniently flipped the burden of proof around here.

By the way, do you have a link to where Weege, JT$ and Matthes said these things?
I wish I could give you a timestamp for when they start talking about the issue:

BTOSports.com Racer X Podcast: Washougal

If taking IV bags between motos was a crime, the nurse's statement would not be hearsay.
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8/2/2014 12:07pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 12:09pm
Zracer wrote:
Circumstantial evidence otherwise know as common sense or employing Ockam's Razor
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence...
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence to convict Stewart since it could not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. It would be thrown out, and that should tell you something about what you think is "circumstantial evidence". lex parsimoniae has very little to do here with guilt or innocence since the simplest explanation isn't necessarily the true one.
YOU are correct.

That is why James will never be punished for IV use.


steve_97060
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8/2/2014 12:08pm
Zracer wrote:
Circumstantial evidence otherwise know as common sense or employing Ockam's Razor
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence...
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence to convict Stewart since it could not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. It would be thrown out, and that should tell you something about what you think is "circumstantial evidence". lex parsimoniae has very little to do here with guilt or innocence since the simplest explanation isn't necessarily the true one.
oh now you did it, triple5 will be here soon with his rebuttal..
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8/2/2014 12:11pm
Zracer wrote:
Circumstantial evidence otherwise know as common sense or employing Ockam's Razor
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence...
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence to convict Stewart since it could not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. It would be thrown out, and that should tell you something about what you think is "circumstantial evidence". lex parsimoniae has very little to do here with guilt or innocence since the simplest explanation isn't necessarily the true one.
Regis wrote:
YOU are correct.

That is why James will never be punished for IV use.


We can all agree he will never be punished.... But can we also agree that he was most likely doing it? There is too many solid people to ignore.
gsxrcr28
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8/2/2014 12:13pm
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence...
If this were in a court of law and it was the state v stewart in a criminal case, the state would not have enough evidence to convict Stewart since it could not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. It would be thrown out, and that should tell you something about what you think is "circumstantial evidence". lex parsimoniae has very little to do here with guilt or innocence since the simplest explanation isn't necessarily the true one.
Regis wrote:
YOU are correct.

That is why James will never be punished for IV use.


MxKing809 wrote:
We can all agree he will never be punished.... But can we also agree that he was most likely doing it? There is too many solid...
We can all agree he will never be punished.... But can we also agree that he was most likely doing it? There is too many solid people to ignore.
I think its going to take more than speculation for most people to agree.
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8/2/2014 12:24pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 12:26pm
Regis wrote:
YOU are correct.

That is why James will never be punished for IV use.


MxKing809 wrote:
We can all agree he will never be punished.... But can we also agree that he was most likely doing it? There is too many solid...
We can all agree he will never be punished.... But can we also agree that he was most likely doing it? There is too many solid people to ignore.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I think its going to take more than speculation for most people to agree.
Pure speculation is him going into his RV and being out of sight, then making an accusation with no other information to base your assumption off of. I would say that the nurse was a smoking gun, you just can't prove JS7 was holding it. Other than something like the picture below, I don't know what else would be needed....




But even then.... I'm sure that would be circumstantial because we don't have a DNA sample from the person in the photo, know what is in the bag, know if the stopper is opened allowing flow, etc...
gsxrcr28
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8/2/2014 12:33pm
MxKing809 wrote:
We can all agree he will never be punished.... But can we also agree that he was most likely doing it? There is too many solid...
We can all agree he will never be punished.... But can we also agree that he was most likely doing it? There is too many solid people to ignore.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I think its going to take more than speculation for most people to agree.
MxKing809 wrote:
Pure speculation is him going into his RV and being out of sight, then making an accusation with no other information to base your assumption off...
Pure speculation is him going into his RV and being out of sight, then making an accusation with no other information to base your assumption off of. I would say that the nurse was a smoking gun, you just can't prove JS7 was holding it. Other than something like the picture below, I don't know what else would be needed....




But even then.... I'm sure that would be circumstantial because we don't have a DNA sample from the person in the photo, know what is in the bag, know if the stopper is opened allowing flow, etc...
It would not surprise me if all the riders get IV's and Stewart certainly may have, I still am not going to accuse him with speculation.

The strange thing is how you and 555 keep posting in every thread to accuse him. We got if the first 6 times, you think he is guilty.
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8/2/2014 12:37pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
It would not surprise me if all the riders get IV's and Stewart certainly may have, I still am not going to accuse him with speculation...
It would not surprise me if all the riders get IV's and Stewart certainly may have, I still am not going to accuse him with speculation.

The strange thing is how you and 555 keep posting in every thread to accuse him. We got if the first 6 times, you think he is guilty.
If I am ever, ever charged with a crime......

I want you on my jury.
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8/2/2014 12:39pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I think its going to take more than speculation for most people to agree.
MxKing809 wrote:
Pure speculation is him going into his RV and being out of sight, then making an accusation with no other information to base your assumption off...
Pure speculation is him going into his RV and being out of sight, then making an accusation with no other information to base your assumption off of. I would say that the nurse was a smoking gun, you just can't prove JS7 was holding it. Other than something like the picture below, I don't know what else would be needed....




But even then.... I'm sure that would be circumstantial because we don't have a DNA sample from the person in the photo, know what is in the bag, know if the stopper is opened allowing flow, etc...
gsxrcr28 wrote:
It would not surprise me if all the riders get IV's and Stewart certainly may have, I still am not going to accuse him with speculation...
It would not surprise me if all the riders get IV's and Stewart certainly may have, I still am not going to accuse him with speculation.

The strange thing is how you and 555 keep posting in every thread to accuse him. We got if the first 6 times, you think he is guilty.
I've largely avoided the thread because it's already been hashed out... But to simply deny the situation as stated by the people involved is ignorant.
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8/2/2014 12:39pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
It would not surprise me if all the riders get IV's and Stewart certainly may have, I still am not going to accuse him with speculation...
It would not surprise me if all the riders get IV's and Stewart certainly may have, I still am not going to accuse him with speculation.

The strange thing is how you and 555 keep posting in every thread to accuse him. We got if the first 6 times, you think he is guilty.
Regis wrote:
If I am ever, ever charged with a crime......

I want you on my jury.
Thanks.

I would try not to convict you without facts.
Regis
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8/2/2014 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2014 12:45pm

I hope JS can get through all this and not end his career under all this crap.

He truly is an amazing rider, at times he is indeed the fastest man on the planet. Watching him on a motorcycle is a thing of beauty. I believe JS is nowhere near the ONLY one to have ever taken an IV in between motos. He may medically need it for all I know, however it looks really bad when you don't prove you medically need something BEFORE you do it or before you make it look like you are doing it. It sucks he has to be going through this. It is just really bad timing and a really bad chain of events for him.






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