Another school shooting in the NW

smeg
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6/12/2014 9:26am Edited Date/Time 6/12/2014 9:27am
Semantics. An AR15 is an assault weapon irrespective of what you say. Don't gimme that shit that it's not "auto" so it's not assault. Spent my time in the military and anyone with any tactical sense knows you don't shoot on auto anyway. The only time to use auto is when laying down suppressing fire.

smeg........out
FastEddy
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6/12/2014 9:27am Edited Date/Time 6/12/2014 9:30am
Titan1 wrote:
You can't "good parent" mental problems away...you are right...but good parenting can recognize mental illness sooner, get them the treatment that they need, can monitor the...
You can't "good parent" mental problems away...you are right...but good parenting can recognize mental illness sooner, get them the treatment that they need, can monitor the side effects of the pills they are taking, can have a relationship with the kids such that the kids will feel comfortable talking to them about their problems. AND it won't cause mental illness (like bad parenting can/does.)

Good parenting will teach kids proper ways to deal with rejection/failure/disappointment/sadness/etc. so they don't lash out in anger and violence, good parenting will make sure that kids aren't raised by the TV/video games/internet, it will teach them respect for other people and a respect for life....and on and on and on. YES, good parenting will prevent the vast majority of these mass murders...even when the shooters have mental health issues.

You are the idiot that doesn't believe in personal responsibility.
smeg wrote:
Tell all that to the congressman's son who just tried to kill him. Your problem is you don't have a fundamental understanding of how mental health...
Tell all that to the congressman's son who just tried to kill him.

Your problem is you don't have a fundamental understanding of how mental health care works in this country.

And you're quoting the Naval yard shootings just bolsters the argument to get rid of assault weapons. The man had a shotgun, had it been an assault weapon the death toll would have been much higher.
We already had an assault weapons ban in this country back in 1994 .
It expired on September 13, 2004 because it wasn't effective.
It really never made a difference - school shootings still happened ect..
Actually it put more firearms on the streets due to panic buys before the ban took effect.
It raised the price of weapons and the industry cashed in & expanded.
I know we did.I worked in the industry when it all went down.
About the only thing it had going for it that made it look somewhat like a success was the Brady Bill was implemented at the same time.But the assault weapons ban didn't help at all.Some tried to explain stats taking credit for the AWB - but really it was the Brady Bill that racked up all the gun holds through local agencies & even NICS.I do believe it prevented murders to a certain degree.
Basically denying those convicted of domestic violence from buying a firearm did help a little.
But people were able to get their rights restored if they took the time to look into it.
And when people got turned down...the system did zero to prosecute them for trying to buy a firearm.
I seen it all first hand and as I said, I worked in the industry at the time and seen it first hand.
And even worked alongside BATF Agents during audits ect....
The AWB wasn't effective.

In fact just a couple years back when the media & politicians were screaming AWB - it just put more on the streets in far greater numbers then ever.
People were buying them in bulk asap and then reselling them for more to every Tom,Dick & Harry with cash(Including criminals).
I reported many folks off Arms list who were doing it - buying & selling mass amounts of weapons without an FFL is illegal. My reply from the BATF was that they would look into it.
But nothing was ever done.It was profitable for people - just like with re-selling prescription drugs to addicts.


Titan1
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6/12/2014 9:28am
Titan1 wrote:
You can't "good parent" mental problems away...you are right...but good parenting can recognize mental illness sooner, get them the treatment that they need, can monitor the...
You can't "good parent" mental problems away...you are right...but good parenting can recognize mental illness sooner, get them the treatment that they need, can monitor the side effects of the pills they are taking, can have a relationship with the kids such that the kids will feel comfortable talking to them about their problems. AND it won't cause mental illness (like bad parenting can/does.)

Good parenting will teach kids proper ways to deal with rejection/failure/disappointment/sadness/etc. so they don't lash out in anger and violence, good parenting will make sure that kids aren't raised by the TV/video games/internet, it will teach them respect for other people and a respect for life....and on and on and on. YES, good parenting will prevent the vast majority of these mass murders...even when the shooters have mental health issues.

You are the idiot that doesn't believe in personal responsibility.
smeg wrote:
Tell all that to the congressman's son who just tried to kill him. Your problem is you don't have a fundamental understanding of how mental health...
Tell all that to the congressman's son who just tried to kill him.

Your problem is you don't have a fundamental understanding of how mental health care works in this country.

And you're quoting the Naval yard shootings just bolsters the argument to get rid of assault weapons. The man had a shotgun, had it been an assault weapon the death toll would have been much higher.
Just because someone is a congressman doesn't make them a good parent...often, its the opposite because they are gone so much and have so many other priorities.

I absolutely understand mental health care...consistent, regular care by qualified professionals...and nurturing supervision by loving parents are incredibly important. Without both, the care becomes spotty...and the loving parents are needed to make sure the care by qualified professionals happens.

On the Naval Shooting (like all other murders) I'm more concerned with why the shooter did what he did, rather than what inanimate object he used to kill people. Why aren't you? If we can figure out what caused him to do what he did, and stop/change/fix that, what kind of inanimate objects he has access to become a non-issue.

Why don't you want to talk about the real problem? Why do you allow yourself to be distracted by the smoke and mirrors "gun control" debate?
Titan1
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6/12/2014 9:31am
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take some time...but gradually, over a generation or two, the problem will solve itself.

Legislation won't work.

How did the assault weapons ban work?
How is the gun ban in Chicago and DC working out?

Government is not the solution. Personal responsibility is.

The Shop

FastEddy
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6/12/2014 9:49am Edited Date/Time 6/12/2014 10:12am
smeg wrote:
Semantics. An AR15 is an assault weapon irrespective of what you say. Don't gimme that shit that it's not "auto" so it's not assault. Spent my...
Semantics. An AR15 is an assault weapon irrespective of what you say. Don't gimme that shit that it's not "auto" so it's not assault. Spent my time in the military and anyone with any tactical sense knows you don't shoot on auto anyway. The only time to use auto is when laying down suppressing fire.

smeg........out
Well if you were in the military (which I hope you were).
Then you would know that it's the operator that does the assaulting.
Not the weapon itself.

However,the quality of a lot of the weapons military vs civilian are indeed a little different in some cases when you look at the M4 vs the AR15 (never mind features like burst mode on the M4 or FA on the M4A1 ect..).
1 quality example...Take colt for instance.
Colt Manufacturing Company now serves the civilian market which actually the barrels and inner parts aren't the same quality wise as their M4 parts variation parts.I believe they aren't as good as to what the military,LEA & Contractors get
these days.

See the M4 is made by "Colt Defense" which serves the law enforcement, military, and private security markets worldwide.
It's better quality stuff.... IMO

Colt Manufacturing Company doesn't put out the quality that Colt Defense does.

That's just one example (I could give you many).

HK would also be a good quick example.
Civilian sales VS Military/LEA/Contractor sales.
HK416 vs MR55A1 - Capabilities & quality.
Which one is safer & available for OTB techniques ect...
MR556A1 is more of a target rifle unless you chop it down and register it on a stamp as SBR and make some other mods to it.
The 416 is more ideal for a tactical operator. Length weight functions ect.
Some 416's are more setup with OTB capabilities for OTB techniques.

I could go on & on all day long with a thousand examples of
Civilian VS Real Military weapons..capabilities,quality ect. and not even mention full auto or tri-burst.
We can leave them all in semi-auto mode and I will still choose the Mil version.
It's better stuff in regards to HK also.
Even the Maritime steel HK Mil/LEA ONLY Magazines are better quality and have less feed issues then what they make for the civilian market. You can still get the steel ones though... on the civilian black market or from LEA trade ins.

6/12/2014 9:59am
Titan1 wrote:
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take...
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take some time...but gradually, over a generation or two, the problem will solve itself.

Legislation won't work.

How did the assault weapons ban work?
How is the gun ban in Chicago and DC working out?

Government is not the solution. Personal responsibility is.
But that is not going to happen so we need to find another approach.
newmann
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6/12/2014 10:04am
smeg wrote:
Semantics. An AR15 is an assault weapon irrespective of what you say. Don't gimme that shit that it's not "auto" so it's not assault. Spent my...
Semantics. An AR15 is an assault weapon irrespective of what you say. Don't gimme that shit that it's not "auto" so it's not assault. Spent my time in the military and anyone with any tactical sense knows you don't shoot on auto anyway. The only time to use auto is when laying down suppressing fire.

smeg........out
So you have a problem with one trigger pull equals one shot. Got it.
FastEddy
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6/12/2014 10:10am
newmann wrote:
So you have a problem with one trigger pull equals one shot. Got it.
Squeeze - don't pull. Smile
newmann
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6/12/2014 10:14am
newmann wrote:
So you have a problem with one trigger pull equals one shot. Got it.
FastEddy wrote:
Squeeze - don't pull. Smile
What did smeg call that, semantics?Laughing

I just installed a Geissele SSA-E 2 stage trigger in my ultra light AR a few weeks ago. Talk about a nice crisp break on that thing. Trading Place Pawn had a super deal on them.
FastEddy
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6/12/2014 10:22am Edited Date/Time 6/12/2014 10:44am
newmann wrote:
So you have a problem with one trigger pull equals one shot. Got it.
FastEddy wrote:
Squeeze - don't pull. Smile
newmann wrote:
What did smeg call that, semantics?:laugh: I just installed a Geissele SSA-E 2 stage trigger in my ultra light AR a few weeks ago. Talk about...
What did smeg call that, semantics?Laughing

I just installed a Geissele SSA-E 2 stage trigger in my ultra light AR a few weeks ago. Talk about a nice crisp break on that thing. Trading Place Pawn had a super deal on them.


LOL Smile

And..
Yep,I run their MR556's triggers in mine -it's a 2 stage also - better then stock & safer.
Geissele makes good stuff!
That 2 stage is a safer trigger also.
You can squeeze a little and make sure your all set.
Engage,Engage,Engage,Release & Repeat.
Far better for training/drills & even in real world situations.

Titan1
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6/12/2014 11:08am
Titan1 wrote:
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take...
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take some time...but gradually, over a generation or two, the problem will solve itself.

Legislation won't work.

How did the assault weapons ban work?
How is the gun ban in Chicago and DC working out?

Government is not the solution. Personal responsibility is.
But that is not going to happen so we need to find another approach.
What's not going to happen? Personal responsibility? a cultural shift?
6/12/2014 11:21am
Titan1 wrote:
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take...
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take some time...but gradually, over a generation or two, the problem will solve itself.

Legislation won't work.

How did the assault weapons ban work?
How is the gun ban in Chicago and DC working out?

Government is not the solution. Personal responsibility is.
But that is not going to happen so we need to find another approach.
Titan1 wrote:
What's not going to happen? Personal responsibility? a cultural shift?
Titan,
Obviously personal responsibility or that cultural shift wont happen because it requires these libby idiots more effort on their behalf.
6/12/2014 11:47am
Titan1 wrote:
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take...
No, I'm saying that if there was a cultural shift in our country with a priority placed on good parenting, and morals, and ethics...it will take some time...but gradually, over a generation or two, the problem will solve itself.

Legislation won't work.

How did the assault weapons ban work?
How is the gun ban in Chicago and DC working out?

Government is not the solution. Personal responsibility is.
But that is not going to happen so we need to find another approach.
Titan1 wrote:
What's not going to happen? Personal responsibility? a cultural shift?
There is not going to be a cultural shift that leads to good parenting (or personal responsibility), at least not anytime soon.

This issue needs to be addressed with a different perspective such as what fasteddy posted about the Navy Seal guy that was torn apart by the NRA was suggesting. In my opinion gun legislation needs to be tied into a judicial ,educational, immigration, and healthcare comprehensive legislation. But it needs to come from the right and make sense to moderates if not the liberals are going to get moderates to go their way because if the choice is between current gun laws or extremely strict gun laws moderates are going to be willing to accept the latter.
Titan1
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6/12/2014 11:58am
But that is not going to happen so we need to find another approach.
Titan1 wrote:
What's not going to happen? Personal responsibility? a cultural shift?
There is not going to be a cultural shift that leads to good parenting (or personal responsibility), at least not anytime soon. This issue needs to...
There is not going to be a cultural shift that leads to good parenting (or personal responsibility), at least not anytime soon.

This issue needs to be addressed with a different perspective such as what fasteddy posted about the Navy Seal guy that was torn apart by the NRA was suggesting. In my opinion gun legislation needs to be tied into a judicial ,educational, immigration, and healthcare comprehensive legislation. But it needs to come from the right and make sense to moderates if not the liberals are going to get moderates to go their way because if the choice is between current gun laws or extremely strict gun laws moderates are going to be willing to accept the latter.
Why not? It's happening in my home...I recognized a need in our society for better parents, so I took it upon myself to become a better parent.

And just so you know, the cultural shit IS actually happening...its happening in my home, and in the homes of most of my friends and family and neighbors and co-workers and the people I associate with (who I have this same discussion with...they all recognize the need, and commit themselves to be better parents)...is the cultural shift happening in your home, Gabby? If not, then you are part of the problem.

I demand that all Americans step up and be better parents, and better aunts and uncles and grandparents....I have this same discussion with everyone I associate with...and most of them see the light, and realize they don't have to helplessly wait for the government to fix our problems, they can take personal responsibility and take action and fix the problem. Really, accepting that reality (that we aren't helpless and at the mercy of politicians and that we can do something NOW) is liberating! Give it a shot...


Titan1
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6/12/2014 12:00pm
But that is not going to happen so we need to find another approach.
Titan1 wrote:
What's not going to happen? Personal responsibility? a cultural shift?
Titan,
Obviously personal responsibility or that cultural shift wont happen because it requires these libby idiots more effort on their behalf.
Very true...but I have hope in humanity such that I believe that even the lazy and entitled among us can change for the better. We just need to make a commitment, ourselves, and expect that same commitment of those that we associate with, and then they do the same. It'll take time, but as soon as being lazy and a crappy parent and unethical and dishonest is no longer "accepted" in our society, people will change...
6/12/2014 12:12pm
Titan1 wrote:
What's not going to happen? Personal responsibility? a cultural shift?
There is not going to be a cultural shift that leads to good parenting (or personal responsibility), at least not anytime soon. This issue needs to...
There is not going to be a cultural shift that leads to good parenting (or personal responsibility), at least not anytime soon.

This issue needs to be addressed with a different perspective such as what fasteddy posted about the Navy Seal guy that was torn apart by the NRA was suggesting. In my opinion gun legislation needs to be tied into a judicial ,educational, immigration, and healthcare comprehensive legislation. But it needs to come from the right and make sense to moderates if not the liberals are going to get moderates to go their way because if the choice is between current gun laws or extremely strict gun laws moderates are going to be willing to accept the latter.
Titan1 wrote:
Why not? It's happening in my home...I recognized a need in our society for better parents, so I took it upon myself to become a better...
Why not? It's happening in my home...I recognized a need in our society for better parents, so I took it upon myself to become a better parent.

And just so you know, the cultural shit IS actually happening...its happening in my home, and in the homes of most of my friends and family and neighbors and co-workers and the people I associate with (who I have this same discussion with...they all recognize the need, and commit themselves to be better parents)...is the cultural shift happening in your home, Gabby? If not, then you are part of the problem.

I demand that all Americans step up and be better parents, and better aunts and uncles and grandparents....I have this same discussion with everyone I associate with...and most of them see the light, and realize they don't have to helplessly wait for the government to fix our problems, they can take personal responsibility and take action and fix the problem. Really, accepting that reality (that we aren't helpless and at the mercy of politicians and that we can do something NOW) is liberating! Give it a shot...


It's going to be an up hill battle for you to get Utah all squared straight with it's long history of laziness and dereliction and all but I am sure you are up to the task.

We are not talking about what should happen but what will happen and what will happen is that these issues need to be addressed and if they are not going to be addressed by those who favor responsible gun ownership then they will be by those who wish to outlaw guns all together.
6/12/2014 12:13pm
But that is not going to happen so we need to find another approach.
Titan1 wrote:
What's not going to happen? Personal responsibility? a cultural shift?
Titan,
Obviously personal responsibility or that cultural shift wont happen because it requires these libby idiots more effort on their behalf.
I am a Libby idiot, that's funny.
jndmx
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6/12/2014 12:18pm
Titan1 wrote:
Very true...but I have hope in humanity such that I believe that even the lazy and entitled among us can change for the better. We just...
Very true...but I have hope in humanity such that I believe that even the lazy and entitled among us can change for the better. We just need to make a commitment, ourselves, and expect that same commitment of those that we associate with, and then they do the same. It'll take time, but as soon as being lazy and a crappy parent and unethical and dishonest is no longer "accepted" in our society, people will change...
Must be nice to have the sun shine out of your ass like that.

So everyone is a lazy and bad parent that has a kid that goes wrong?
People that have a school filled with drugs and gun violence they are just being lazy when they don't get a good education?

Parents that come from homes where there are 4-5 generations born into addiction, poverty, lack of educational access or opportunity are supposed to somehow rise above the 70 hour work weeks for min wage, never seeing their kids and barely making ends meet and if they don't it's just because their lazy and a crappy parent?

And please save me the story about how your dad worked as a blue collar man in the mines and you pulled yourself up by the boot straps because that was in a time in this country when you had that opportunity....especially if you happened to be white....that is not the time we live in anymore.
Hell in the 40's, 50's 60's, 70's and early 80's this country actually made things and there was an economy based on manufactured goods.....now it's all based on purchasing and unless you can beat the prices Walmart can post then your mom and pop store is going down.....so now your "opportunity" is a $7.75 an hour managers job at McD's unless you spend $100K on an education and better hope it's the right one or you have just put yourself into debt for 30 years.....Good Luck!!!

Yes in the abstract that kind of thing is possible under the best of circumstances these days but that "best of circumstances" only applies to about 8% of the people in this country now.

Are there bad parents....yes undeniably but look at what the reality is before you say it is all just laziness and sloth.

As far as ethics go.....what ethics?
The only rule in business now is make more money than the other guy....dollar, dollar bill ya'll.....fuck the other guy just get yours.
Dishonesty is the language of politics and since our government is supposed to be representative of the people well guess what.......that's the example for us all.
Titan1
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6/12/2014 12:19pm
There is not going to be a cultural shift that leads to good parenting (or personal responsibility), at least not anytime soon. This issue needs to...
There is not going to be a cultural shift that leads to good parenting (or personal responsibility), at least not anytime soon.

This issue needs to be addressed with a different perspective such as what fasteddy posted about the Navy Seal guy that was torn apart by the NRA was suggesting. In my opinion gun legislation needs to be tied into a judicial ,educational, immigration, and healthcare comprehensive legislation. But it needs to come from the right and make sense to moderates if not the liberals are going to get moderates to go their way because if the choice is between current gun laws or extremely strict gun laws moderates are going to be willing to accept the latter.
Titan1 wrote:
Why not? It's happening in my home...I recognized a need in our society for better parents, so I took it upon myself to become a better...
Why not? It's happening in my home...I recognized a need in our society for better parents, so I took it upon myself to become a better parent.

And just so you know, the cultural shit IS actually happening...its happening in my home, and in the homes of most of my friends and family and neighbors and co-workers and the people I associate with (who I have this same discussion with...they all recognize the need, and commit themselves to be better parents)...is the cultural shift happening in your home, Gabby? If not, then you are part of the problem.

I demand that all Americans step up and be better parents, and better aunts and uncles and grandparents....I have this same discussion with everyone I associate with...and most of them see the light, and realize they don't have to helplessly wait for the government to fix our problems, they can take personal responsibility and take action and fix the problem. Really, accepting that reality (that we aren't helpless and at the mercy of politicians and that we can do something NOW) is liberating! Give it a shot...


It's going to be an up hill battle for you to get Utah all squared straight with it's long history of laziness and dereliction and all...
It's going to be an up hill battle for you to get Utah all squared straight with it's long history of laziness and dereliction and all but I am sure you are up to the task.

We are not talking about what should happen but what will happen and what will happen is that these issues need to be addressed and if they are not going to be addressed by those who favor responsible gun ownership then they will be by those who wish to outlaw guns all together.
And as long as people like you refuse to get on board-and instead wait on the government to make things worse...I mean fix things-it will be a longer steeper hill.

Why won't you get on board Gabby? Acknowledge that our society is going to pot NOT because we don't have enough laws (we have PLENTY of laws)...but because our society has lost its moral and ethical compass...and then make a commitment to be a better parent (if you have kids or will have kids in the future) and a better person...and then, whenever you talk about our societies issues rather than tell everyone you are waiting on the government (and what you think government will do) tell them that you took action, and expect the same of them. How about it Gabby?

6/12/2014 12:25pm
Mental health issues can not be cured by superior parenting any more than it can cure cancer or any other genetic anomaly. Until we as a people deal with mental health issues with the same sense of purpose as we do cancer or MS, nothing will change. The mentally ill deserve the same consideration as other people with illnesses. Since the 80's, it's just been more convenient to jail them and forget them.
Titan1
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6/12/2014 12:31pm
Titan1 wrote:
Very true...but I have hope in humanity such that I believe that even the lazy and entitled among us can change for the better. We just...
Very true...but I have hope in humanity such that I believe that even the lazy and entitled among us can change for the better. We just need to make a commitment, ourselves, and expect that same commitment of those that we associate with, and then they do the same. It'll take time, but as soon as being lazy and a crappy parent and unethical and dishonest is no longer "accepted" in our society, people will change...
jndmx wrote:
Must be nice to have the sun shine out of your ass like that. So everyone is a lazy and bad parent that has a kid...
Must be nice to have the sun shine out of your ass like that.

So everyone is a lazy and bad parent that has a kid that goes wrong?
People that have a school filled with drugs and gun violence they are just being lazy when they don't get a good education?

Parents that come from homes where there are 4-5 generations born into addiction, poverty, lack of educational access or opportunity are supposed to somehow rise above the 70 hour work weeks for min wage, never seeing their kids and barely making ends meet and if they don't it's just because their lazy and a crappy parent?

And please save me the story about how your dad worked as a blue collar man in the mines and you pulled yourself up by the boot straps because that was in a time in this country when you had that opportunity....especially if you happened to be white....that is not the time we live in anymore.
Hell in the 40's, 50's 60's, 70's and early 80's this country actually made things and there was an economy based on manufactured goods.....now it's all based on purchasing and unless you can beat the prices Walmart can post then your mom and pop store is going down.....so now your "opportunity" is a $7.75 an hour managers job at McD's unless you spend $100K on an education and better hope it's the right one or you have just put yourself into debt for 30 years.....Good Luck!!!

Yes in the abstract that kind of thing is possible under the best of circumstances these days but that "best of circumstances" only applies to about 8% of the people in this country now.

Are there bad parents....yes undeniably but look at what the reality is before you say it is all just laziness and sloth.

As far as ethics go.....what ethics?
The only rule in business now is make more money than the other guy....dollar, dollar bill ya'll.....fuck the other guy just get yours.
Dishonesty is the language of politics and since our government is supposed to be representative of the people well guess what.......that's the example for us all.
Come on...

Virtually ALL of these shooter type kids come from broken homes...virtually ALL of the gang bangers in the world come from broken homes...and on and on and on...the solution to our problems is the family.

You are correct, our society is a reflection of our morals and ethics (as evidenced by our government). Can government, with laws and regulations and agencies, change the morals and ethics of our society? No. They can't...but, until our morals and ethics change, our country will continue to swirl around the toilet. So what do you choose to do about it? Sit there and complain, and give up more and more of your freedoms and liberties (and your grandkids tax dollars) so the government can put a Mickey Mouse band aide on the slit throat of our society? Or make sure your kids/grandkids aren't part of the problem? Or make sure that your kids won't be the first generation stuck in addiction and poverty and lacking education?

Titan1
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6/12/2014 12:33pm
Mental health issues can not be cured by superior parenting any more than it can cure cancer or any other genetic anomaly. Until we as a...
Mental health issues can not be cured by superior parenting any more than it can cure cancer or any other genetic anomaly. Until we as a people deal with mental health issues with the same sense of purpose as we do cancer or MS, nothing will change. The mentally ill deserve the same consideration as other people with illnesses. Since the 80's, it's just been more convenient to jail them and forget them.
It can't...but it can catch mental illness sooner, it can make sure they are getting property treatment, it can monitor the side effects of their medication, it can make sure the kids get constant and regular and professional care, it can develop a relationship with their kids so their kids will talk to them rather than lash out in violence. That's all I'm saying.
6/12/2014 1:05pm
Titan1 wrote:
Why not? It's happening in my home...I recognized a need in our society for better parents, so I took it upon myself to become a better...
Why not? It's happening in my home...I recognized a need in our society for better parents, so I took it upon myself to become a better parent.

And just so you know, the cultural shit IS actually happening...its happening in my home, and in the homes of most of my friends and family and neighbors and co-workers and the people I associate with (who I have this same discussion with...they all recognize the need, and commit themselves to be better parents)...is the cultural shift happening in your home, Gabby? If not, then you are part of the problem.

I demand that all Americans step up and be better parents, and better aunts and uncles and grandparents....I have this same discussion with everyone I associate with...and most of them see the light, and realize they don't have to helplessly wait for the government to fix our problems, they can take personal responsibility and take action and fix the problem. Really, accepting that reality (that we aren't helpless and at the mercy of politicians and that we can do something NOW) is liberating! Give it a shot...


It's going to be an up hill battle for you to get Utah all squared straight with it's long history of laziness and dereliction and all...
It's going to be an up hill battle for you to get Utah all squared straight with it's long history of laziness and dereliction and all but I am sure you are up to the task.

We are not talking about what should happen but what will happen and what will happen is that these issues need to be addressed and if they are not going to be addressed by those who favor responsible gun ownership then they will be by those who wish to outlaw guns all together.
Titan1 wrote:
And as long as people like you refuse to get on board-and instead wait on the government to make things worse...I mean fix things-it will be...
And as long as people like you refuse to get on board-and instead wait on the government to make things worse...I mean fix things-it will be a longer steeper hill.

Why won't you get on board Gabby? Acknowledge that our society is going to pot NOT because we don't have enough laws (we have PLENTY of laws)...but because our society has lost its moral and ethical compass...and then make a commitment to be a better parent (if you have kids or will have kids in the future) and a better person...and then, whenever you talk about our societies issues rather than tell everyone you are waiting on the government (and what you think government will do) tell them that you took action, and expect the same of them. How about it Gabby?

Get on board with what? Good laws are good and bad laws are bad so if we implement good laws then we will be the better for it and if we implement bad ones we will be worse. Last week we had a shooting up here and the college students all had good values and morals. They demonstrated them in how they reacted to it. Problem was one 26 year old adult didn't and he was the one with gun. So I don't see how you arrive at the conclusion that better parenting would fix this problem when half the time the ones committing the crimes are adults. Also the amount of mass shootings (at least as of 2012) has not increased so they are no indication of your declining moral theory either. The problem isn't bad parenting the problem is crazy people with guns.
oldAFI
Posts
754
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Location
Seattle, WA, USA
6/12/2014 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2014 1:51pm
oldAFI wrote:
You can't honestly believe that if you take guns out of the equation that every dude with a gun is going to make a fucking bomb...
You can't honestly believe that if you take guns out of the equation that every dude with a gun is going to make a fucking bomb. That fucking restarted logic.
So guns kill a lot of people, who cares? why defend it so defiantly?
It seems like you love guns and have bought into the classic redneck bullshit lines.
Instead of grasping at any logic possible, why not admit there's too many guns that are in the wrong hands, and look for solutions?
FastEddy wrote:
[i]You can't honestly believe that if you take guns out of the equation that every dude with a gun is going to make a fucking bomb...
You can't honestly believe that if you take guns out of the equation that every dude with a gun is going to make a fucking bomb. That fucking restarted logic.

Man was killing each other at alarming rates far before firearms ever existed.
They'll use what ever technology is available.
Man kills - the weapon doesn't - it's just a tool.



"So guns kill a lot of people, who cares? why defend it so defiantly? "

It's your retarded logic that doesn't want to blame the person/killer and blames the object/tool.

"It seems like you love guns and have bought into the classic redneck bullshit lines.
Instead of grasping at any logic possible, why not admit there's too many guns that are in the wrong hands, and look for solutions?"


I just don't buy into your bullshit....hiding behind your Shaw Communications account in Canada. Hahaha
Pretending to be in American. LOL
Just about everything you've said on here is bullshit. Even your Seattle location.
I've played this game with dumb-asses like you in the past.
You aren't going to like how it turns out.You may think you can bullshit these other guys on here,
but it isn't going to work with me.

And yes there are firearms in the wrong hands of violent & insane criminals.
But you can take those guns away (by waving your magic Canadian fairy wand)and guess what -you still have violent insane criminals that will still kill people with other methods regardless of the technology.
It's the insane people that are the problem.
People like yourself possibly....who knows.
I find it rather sick that you relate/sympathize with the insane and want to blame the gun but not the crazy person.

As for looking for solutions against armed insane criminals with knives,guns,swords,ect...
My solution is to arm myself /train & fight back.
Just simply being prepared - not paranoid.
Legislation doesn't work - criminals/the insane don't follow the laws.
More well trained people in threat assessment alone could/would be more beneficial to society and stopping these attacks.
More people even armed with less then lethal stuff - like the mace that was used in Seattle.
Just think if in Vegas if someone was trained in threat assessment and warned those officers as they ate with their guard down.That two armed people were acting suspicious.
Just having a few seconds to react/ a warning could have saved their lives.
Their guard wouldn't have been down.


What's your detailed solution? Other then talking shit from from behind a computer in Canada?
Waving your magic Canadian fairy wand and making guns disappear out of the wrong hands? LOL
You want to make more feel good legislation,stricter laws? LOL
And when will these criminals start following these laws? LOL
Let's hear your ethical solution,that doesn't leave people more vulnerable?





Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions.

You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs
...who cares about intelligent counter-points.
This isn't about what's best for society,
it's about your self-interest and how you can keep your precious guns.



newmann
Posts
24438
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Location
USA
6/12/2014 1:57pm
oldAFI wrote:
Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions. You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs ...who...
Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions.

You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs
...who cares about intelligent counter-points.
This isn't about what's best for society,
it's about your self-interest and how you can keep your precious guns.



What was your intelligent counter point?
FastEddy
Posts
14815
Joined
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Location
💀, FL, USA
6/12/2014 2:04pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2014 2:15pm
oldAFI wrote:
Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions. You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs ...who...
Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions.

You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs
...who cares about intelligent counter-points.
This isn't about what's best for society,
it's about your self-interest and how you can keep your precious guns.



Not really.
I'd be able to keep my firearms regardless of what was banned ect...just like with the other bans.
I own stuff legally that the average Joe cannot buy over the counter/cash & carry.
I don't mind going through the processes.
However,I'm all about not leaving people vulnerable by making non-effect legislation.
I'm all about fighting back against violent criminals & crazies and training more people to fight back & use less tolerance towards violent criminals.Better assessment,accuracy,speed ect.Stand & fight back.
You seem to defend them...by looking through some of your past posts in other threads.
Perhaps you are indeed the one with the real "self-interest".
Like you said, all those posts and you don't have a solution all you do is blame a tool/object.
You don't like my solutions - because maybe they might effect your "self interest" or the interest of the criminals you surround yourself with.Or the criminals you sympathize with. Who knows...
But one thing I do know - you are full of shit either way.
oldAFI
Posts
754
Joined
4/8/2010
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
6/12/2014 2:26pm
oldAFI wrote:
Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions. You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs ...who...
Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions.

You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs
...who cares about intelligent counter-points.
This isn't about what's best for society,
it's about your self-interest and how you can keep your precious guns.



newmann wrote:
What was your intelligent counter point?
It starts with looking at what's best for society as a whole rather than what you personally would prefer.

...and ends with letting go of any gun infatuation you may have.

Until then, these threads will just be ruminations of every other gun thread that's ever been created on a message board.

You probably discussed this on mototalk with TFS back in the day (RIP), and made the same tautological points.

It was probably more fun back then huh?



oldAFI
Posts
754
Joined
4/8/2010
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
6/12/2014 2:34pm
oldAFI wrote:
Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions. You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs ...who...
Y'know what, reading your thoughts have caused me to realize I have no solutions.

You love your guns and will defend them at ALL costs
...who cares about intelligent counter-points.
This isn't about what's best for society,
it's about your self-interest and how you can keep your precious guns.



FastEddy wrote:
Not really. I'd be able to keep my firearms regardless of what was banned ect...just like with the other bans. I own stuff legally that the...
Not really.
I'd be able to keep my firearms regardless of what was banned ect...just like with the other bans.
I own stuff legally that the average Joe cannot buy over the counter/cash & carry.
I don't mind going through the processes.
However,I'm all about not leaving people vulnerable by making non-effect legislation.
I'm all about fighting back against violent criminals & crazies and training more people to fight back & use less tolerance towards violent criminals.Better assessment,accuracy,speed ect.Stand & fight back.
You seem to defend them...by looking through some of your past posts in other threads.
Perhaps you are indeed the one with the real "self-interest".
Like you said, all those posts and you don't have a solution all you do is blame a tool/object.
You don't like my solutions - because maybe they might effect your "self interest" or the interest of the criminals you surround yourself with.Or the criminals you sympathize with. Who knows...
But one thing I do know - you are full of shit either way.
You're fighting back,
how's that working out for ya?
FastEddy
Posts
14815
Joined
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Location
💀, FL, USA
6/12/2014 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2014 2:40pm
oldAFI wrote:
You're fighting back,
how's that working out for ya?
Just fine for me & my family.
FastEddy
Posts
14815
Joined
8/3/2008
Location
💀, FL, USA
6/12/2014 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2014 2:40pm
oldAFI wrote:
It starts with looking at what's best for society as a whole rather than what you personally would prefer. ...and ends with letting go of any...
It starts with looking at what's best for society as a whole rather than what you personally would prefer.

...and ends with letting go of any gun infatuation you may have.

Until then, these threads will just be ruminations of every other gun thread that's ever been created on a message board.

You probably discussed this on mototalk with TFS back in the day (RIP), and made the same tautological points.

It was probably more fun back then huh?



Fun huh,you sick fuck?
You think this shit is fucking joke,a form of entertainment?
Grow the fuck up!

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