Snowden: Patriot or Traitor ?

6/2/2014 12:10pm
newb wrote:
The American public has an "obligation" to know that. Just like Snowden had an "obligation" not to disclose classified info. It's never really been a secret...
The American public has an "obligation" to know that. Just like Snowden had an "obligation" not to disclose classified info. It's never really been a secret that this was happening or even that it was going to happen. Some paid attention, some didn't I guess.

So if it has "never really been a secret" then you are precluded from arguing that Snowden damaged national security.
kongols
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6/2/2014 12:12pm
TripleFive wrote:
So if it has "never really been a secret" then you are precluded from arguing that Snowden damaged national security.
Are you slow?
6/2/2014 12:25pm
Snowden exposed secrets that never really were secrets, what a traitor!!!

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Racer92
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6/2/2014 12:28pm
TripleFive wrote:
Snowden exposed secrets that never really were secrets, what a traitor!!!
Grinning
newb
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6/2/2014 1:07pm
newb wrote:
The American public has an "obligation" to know that. Just like Snowden had an "obligation" not to disclose classified info. It's never really been a secret...
The American public has an "obligation" to know that. Just like Snowden had an "obligation" not to disclose classified info. It's never really been a secret that this was happening or even that it was going to happen. Some paid attention, some didn't I guess.

TripleFive wrote:
So if it has "never really been a secret" then you are precluded from arguing that Snowden damaged national security.
6/2/2014 2:29pm
ahahahah!

I've been had.

A troll the entire time!
newb
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6/2/2014 2:37pm
TripleFive wrote:
ahahahah!

I've been had.

A troll the entire time!
You've been had by Snowden maybe. In that video you were told this was coming, but you needed some snot nosed kid to expose a treasure trove of classified info apparently.
6/2/2014 2:48pm
newb wrote:
You've been had by Snowden maybe. In that video you were told this was coming, but you needed some snot nosed kid to expose a treasure...
You've been had by Snowden maybe. In that video you were told this was coming, but you needed some snot nosed kid to expose a treasure trove of classified info apparently.
Just to be clear, I drafted a paper in 2012 where I came to the conclusion that nearly every digital transaction was being monitored in violation of the Fourth Amendment. So I didn't need Snowden.

The lion's share of the United States needed Snowden.
Mr. G
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6/2/2014 5:10pm
newb, who did you vote for?
jtomasik
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6/3/2014 9:41am
Snowden's a hero. It's Bush, Obama, and their circles who are the traitors to the Constitution. They should be hanging from a tree by a rope....each one of them.
CR250Rider
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6/3/2014 2:28pm


kongols
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6/9/2014 7:41am
Patriot my ass!!! LMFAO.



Ex-KGB Major Boris Karpichko told Nigel Nelson of The Mirror that spies from Russia’s SVR intelligence service, posing as ­diplomats in Hong Kong, convinced Snowden to fly to Moscow last June.
“It was a trick and he fell for it," Karpichko, who reached the rank of Major as a member of the KGB's prestigious Second Directorate while specializing in counter-intelligence, told Nelson. "Now the Russians are extracting all the intelligence he possesses.”

Karpichko fled Moscow in 1998 after spying on his native Latvia for the KGB and the post-Soviet FSB. The 55-year-old says he is still in contact with several of his old spy pals.

Snowden flew from Hawaii to Hong Kong on May 20, 2013 and identified himself to the world on June 9. The 30-year-old American became stranded in Moscow on June 23 after he landed with a void U.S. passport and an unsigned travel Ecuadorian document obtained by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Karpichko said that the Kremlin leaked Snowden’s planned flight to Moscow to provoke the U.S. into revoking Snowden's passport, which Washington did on June 22. Assange also advised Snowden that "he would be physically safest in Russia."

Snowden has been living under the protection of the post-Soviet security services (FSCool since at least receiving asylum on Aug. 1. Karpichko told The Mirror that Snowden lives in an FSB-controlled neighborhood in Moscow's suburbs.

"His flat is heavily alarmed to stop anything happening to him," Karpichko said. "He meets the FSB twice a week over plenty of food and drink.”

Former KGB General Olig Kalugin recently told VentureBeat that “the Russians are very pleased with the gifts Edward Snowden has given them. He’s busy doing something. He is not just idling his way through life."

Back to the CIA
Karpichko also claims that Moscow spotted Snowden as a candidate for defection in 2007 and opened a file on him while he worked for the CIA in Geneva.

The CIA hired Snowden as a systems administrator and technician in 2006, subsequently sending him to Geneva in early 2007 under diplomatic cover at the U.S. Mission to the United Nations. Then 24, Snowden "was in the system. He was reading the traffic" at the Geneva CIA station, one former CIA official told Vanity Fair.

Snowden has said that he first considered leaking documents around 2008. He resigned from the CIA in early 2009 after becoming "disillusioned" about how the U.S. government functions. He excelled at several jobs for the NSA and as an NSA contractor before fleeing to Hong Kong.

The U.S. government believes Snowden, who had a web presence from 2001 until May 2012, began downloading documents in the summer of 2012 and eventually stole around 1.5 million documents — about 200,000 of which he gave to journalists.

It is unclear when or if the former NSA systems administrator gave up access to the cache of up to 1.5 million documents, which is suspected to contain military intel. Snowden recently told NBC that he "destroyed" them but had previously told the New York Times that he gave them all to journalists he met in Hong Kong.

As an experienced systems administrator, Snowden is especially appealing to spy services hostile to America. Both the U.S. and U.K. claim that the Snowden leaks have done staggering damage to their spy operations. In any case, Snowden's brain is a very valuable asset to his hosts in Moscow.

“He will stay in Russia until they have got everything they want from him," Karpichko said. "They need the time to extract all the classified intelligence he possesses about the operational methods and tactics of Western security agencies."



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-kgb-spy-the-russians-tricked-snowden-…
6/9/2014 9:59am
You must be slow.

Amazing how a man who defected and cut all ties with Russian intelligence in 1998 knows all about what's happening in 2013.

"Boris Karpichkov defected in 1998 when he was charged with supplying confidential information to foreign agents."


This guy seems trustworthy.
6/9/2014 10:03am
After the Soviet collapse, Karpichkov stayed in Latvia, now independent and at odds with Moscow, and joined Latvia's new intelligence service. Secretly, however, he continued to supply information to the KGB – renamed the Federal Security Service or FSB.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/22/confessions-of-a-kgb-spy


He spied against Latvia too, what a hero!
6/9/2014 10:04am
"In exile in Britain, Karpichkov has written a colourful memoir about his time in the KGB, for which he is now seeking a publisher."

I wonder if this guy has any motive to lie?
kongols
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6/9/2014 10:06am
TripleFive wrote:
[i]After the Soviet collapse, Karpichkov stayed in Latvia, now independent and at odds with Moscow, and joined Latvia's new intelligence service. Secretly, however, he continued to...
After the Soviet collapse, Karpichkov stayed in Latvia, now independent and at odds with Moscow, and joined Latvia's new intelligence service. Secretly, however, he continued to supply information to the KGB – renamed the Federal Security Service or FSB.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/22/confessions-of-a-kgb-spy


He spied against Latvia too, what a hero!
Who said he`s a hero? Fuck him and a horse he rode in on.
kongols
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6/9/2014 10:09am
TripleFive wrote:
[i]"In exile in Britain, Karpichkov has written a colourful memoir about his time in the KGB, for which he is now seeking a publisher."[/i] I wonder...
"In exile in Britain, Karpichkov has written a colourful memoir about his time in the KGB, for which he is now seeking a publisher."

I wonder if this guy has any motive to lie?
Grasping for straws much?
What exactly is wrong or untrue with what he said? Is Snowden somewhere else or do you believe Kremlin gave him asylum because they are very human Kremlin.
6/9/2014 10:18am
kongols wrote:
Grasping for straws much? What exactly is wrong or untrue with what he said? Is Snowden somewhere else or do you believe Kremlin gave him asylum...
Grasping for straws much?
What exactly is wrong or untrue with what he said? Is Snowden somewhere else or do you believe Kremlin gave him asylum because they are very human Kremlin.
What is wrong or untrue? I have no idea what is wrong or untrue about this report, and neither do you.

The only thing we have to go by is the credibility of the messenger. This guy has snitched on his own country, defected over a decade ago, and is now writing a book but can't find a publisher.


"He's painting Snowden in a bad light so whatever he says must be true" -Kongols
6/9/2014 10:20am Edited Date/Time 6/9/2014 10:21am
As to why Kremlin gave him asylum?

The US government hates this guy right now, WHY WOULDN'T they give him temporary asylum? There are so many reasons for why this would be a good strategic move for Russia.
kongols
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6/9/2014 11:10am
Haha, he`s a patriot then. I bet he keeps on fighting for American people and constitution appearing on russian TV serenading how great Russia and Putin is. LMFAO.
6/9/2014 11:42am
kongols wrote:
Haha, he`s a patriot then. I bet he keeps on fighting for American people and constitution appearing on russian TV serenading how great Russia and Putin...
Haha, he`s a patriot then. I bet he keeps on fighting for American people and constitution appearing on russian TV serenading how great Russia and Putin is. LMFAO.
His opinions on Russia have no bearing on whether he is a patriot or not.

He provided Americans with evidence that their government was subverting their Constitutionally guaranteed rights. In doing so he gave up his ability to return to the country that he loves. PATRIOT.
kongols
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6/9/2014 11:57am
kongols wrote:
Haha, he`s a patriot then. I bet he keeps on fighting for American people and constitution appearing on russian TV serenading how great Russia and Putin...
Haha, he`s a patriot then. I bet he keeps on fighting for American people and constitution appearing on russian TV serenading how great Russia and Putin is. LMFAO.
TripleFive wrote:
His opinions on Russia have no bearing on whether he is a patriot or not. He provided Americans with evidence that their government was subverting their...
His opinions on Russia have no bearing on whether he is a patriot or not.

He provided Americans with evidence that their government was subverting their Constitutionally guaranteed rights. In doing so he gave up his ability to return to the country that he loves. PATRIOT.
Haha, all the proof was in writing back in 2001. Or do you think they wrote it because they had nothing better to do?
He a attention whore, nothing more, nothing less.
6/9/2014 12:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2014 12:08pm
kongols wrote:
Haha, all the proof was in writing back in 2001. Or do you think they wrote it because they had nothing better to do? He a...
Haha, all the proof was in writing back in 2001. Or do you think they wrote it because they had nothing better to do?
He a attention whore, nothing more, nothing less.
I really don't get this argument.

"Snowden is an attention whore because the information he exposed could have been ascertained through other means."

Each revelation is newsworthy not because of its source, it's popular news because it involves every American's Fourth Amendment rights. Large scale spying? Yeah I want to hear about it. The government can collect all your meta-data? Yeah that's going to garnish attention. The government is building the world's largest data facility and has wire rooms in AT&T routing centers across America? Pretty funking newsworthy info.

Snowden has given ONE interview to a US organization and he's an attention whore? If the info he was exposing was common knowledge to the average American, we wouldn't know the name Edward Snowden.

[edit: spelling]
CR250Rider
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6/9/2014 12:08pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2014 12:12pm
I see nothing new here
the original point stands

Honestly I believe Obama has put more Americans in danger by negotiating with Terrorists
newb
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6/9/2014 12:27pm
kongols wrote:
Haha, all the proof was in writing back in 2001. Or do you think they wrote it because they had nothing better to do? He a...
Haha, all the proof was in writing back in 2001. Or do you think they wrote it because they had nothing better to do?
He a attention whore, nothing more, nothing less.
TripleFive wrote:
I really don't get this argument. "Snowden is an attention whore because the information he exposed could have been ascertained through other means." Each revelation is...
I really don't get this argument.

"Snowden is an attention whore because the information he exposed could have been ascertained through other means."

Each revelation is newsworthy not because of its source, it's popular news because it involves every American's Fourth Amendment rights. Large scale spying? Yeah I want to hear about it. The government can collect all your meta-data? Yeah that's going to garnish attention. The government is building the world's largest data facility and has wire rooms in AT&T routing centers across America? Pretty funking newsworthy info.

Snowden has given ONE interview to a US organization and he's an attention whore? If the info he was exposing was common knowledge to the average American, we wouldn't know the name Edward Snowden.

[edit: spelling]
You did hear about ALL of this long before Snowden. You apparently just didn't care or weren't paying attention at the time.
6/9/2014 12:31pm
I was paying attention and cared tremendously.

Not many people, unfortunately, were aware.

It took a person like Snowden to bring attention to this.


Without Edward would the NSA be getting this much attention? NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT.
thesadguy
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6/10/2014 8:31pm
jtomasik wrote:
Snowden's a hero. It's Bush, Obama, and their circles who are the traitors to the Constitution. They should be hanging from a tree by a rope....each...
Snowden's a hero. It's Bush, Obama, and their circles who are the traitors to the Constitution. They should be hanging from a tree by a rope....each one of them.
Amen.

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