JTOMASIK Paleo diet questions

TFS
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2/3/2013 6:25am
The Paleo sites still argue over dairy. It's not as high priority as avoiding simple sugar and grains. Milk is a terrible idea if you are even a bit insulin resistant. Yogurt and hard, aged cheese have less carbs, or none, and are popular. Full fat Greek yogurt is the shit, but buy it with sugar mixed in and you turn it into a carb bomb.

Some Paleo folks say all fruit is candy from a tree, not food, and some don't care to cut it out and don't get the fuss. The logic is we didn't develop eating it every day, with a giant fruit case a walk away from every cave and open 24 hrs. Modern fruit is bred to make it sweeter, bigger, and of course higher in fructose. Just look at it that way. Fruit is filler that won't kill you and its tasty when you find it, but its easy to overdo when you have technology doing your "gathering."

Any time I buy fruit and eat it before it spoils, I feel the belly growing and don't do that again, until next time!

I don't do any alcohol, not worth it.

In 2007, the doc that figured my shit out said "milk is poison, for you." He said that because triglycerides were 8X over the limit, insulin was over max range, and a hormone called reverse T3 was spiked high. This means insulin resistance, and what is now called in hip circles leptin resistance. Leptin signaling is how your brain keeps track of how much fat is in your tissues. High insulin maximizes fat storage potential, high leptin tells the brain whatever you had, its not enough. Now you can't get enough of a bad thing. Milk was hard to give up, the hardest I guess, but I don't miss it and doc was right.
TFS
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2/3/2013 12:21pm Edited Date/Time 2/3/2013 12:29pm
It's probably obvious that both Paleo and non Paleo of all types split over the carbs question. What you believe and who you believe depend on your own experience, and your own experience depends on genes and things that change over time in your body- specifically if you are or are not "carb sensitive," or "insulin resistant." (IR) Same thing.

An important book for the insulin resistant (basically most fat people) came out in 2011 by Gary Taubes called "Why We Get Fat, and What to Do About It." Unfortunately a lot of people can't accept it because they don't have the problem. I read it and Taubes just didn't make it clear. Taubes went on Dr Oz, who can't accept Taubes explanation and he describes the struggling dieter and says this is who he is talking about. Oz acts surprised when Taubes tells him everything he learned in Med school about this is just wrong.

I just happened to find a Youtube clip from Larry King Live when the same Taubes and the same Dr Oz went at it over the very same thing a few years previous to this new bood, and Taubes even them told him his background was just wrong back then. As a referee, they have non Paleo but anti-conventional wisdom Dr Andrew Weil. He doesn't buy into "carbs=evil, period" but he agrees that most "knowledge" that is put in practice is basically wrong.

http://dietforhumans.com/2011/03/10/test/

Taubes is arguing that fat is stored when insulin is higher than it should be. The standard diet is too high in carbs and most people are adding to their fat storage potential by continuing to eat carbs, burn carbs, raise insulin, and adapt their bodies to sugar burning, and less for fat burning. Keep doing it and pretty soon your body only picks carbs out of your meals and stores fat instead of burning it. This is what you see around the waist and pick up on cholesterol tests that cause so much panic. It's not the fat you ate, its the carbs that changed your body so that fat doesn't burn right. You don't need drugs, you just need to get back to normal. This is why die-hard sugar-burning athletes are foolish.

Take someone who gained 25 lb from cookies. Most "experts" tell them to go on a lowfat diet. From all those cookies, Taubes would say they raised their insulin and fat storage, so lower insulin and let the problem take care of itself. A non believer would say, to lose weight eat less fat, it works, it just takes willpower. It only works because the body has de-adapted its ability to burn fat, and is choked with insulin so it badly wants to store it. You can't afford to eat much fat, because your body is jacked up and can't use it. It's better to fix the problem than to resort to a fat-restricted diet that does a bad job of making up for the root of the problem, carbs.

When should you even care? If you don't walk past a cookie without gaining weight, or can't lose weight when training because of that Gatorade, that's one side of the IR spectrum. The other end is people that can ride all day, have a beer, eat cake, and look the same no matter what. Everyone is either one extreme or somewhere in between. This is all you need to know to get past the endless "how many carbs" debates.

Some people argue that a bad diet and lack of exercise make you IR, not the other way around. Fuckit, people like me don't have time to argue that endlessly, we want to know what to do about it, regardless of it's beginning.

The last part is the hardest for some people to accept, but if you think about it, it cuts through the "all about calories" dogma. If you are IR and eating carbs and living with elevated insulin, you are fat. You may be thin at the moment, but your body is programmed to keep eating and raise it's weight. It's just a matter of time. You don't get fat because you ate too much, you will eat too much because you got "fat" (in terms of insulin/hormones). Weight is all about the hormones in the long run, and calories just get you there.

The Robustos who have always been thin and always will be don't need this much info, and they will never understand the people that do. The reality of hormones setting weight instead of a daily calorie count is not a trivial thing to accept. People still see fat people and think "can't stop eating."

I think I can speak from experience about your body having a hormonal reason to adjust weight up. It's very fucking real.

BTW-Weil came to Fresno State in the mid 1980s when I was there and I went to listen. He said back then sugar is our biggest "drug problem," something like that. hmmm Guess he was ahead of his time.
Sparkalounger
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2/4/2013 9:37pm
Just watched "Forks over Knives"...
Who here eats a whole food plant based diet?

Steve, I am sure you have an opinion on that movie, care to share?
TFS
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2/5/2013 3:49am
On the Forks Over Knives movie, my approach would be to not watch it. Waste of time.

The China Study, which is propped up next to the food bar at the local Whole Foods, is de-bunked as a fraud. Besides, China now has the worlds highest rate of T2 diabetes.

This is a good question to ask Denise Minger, a former committed vegetarian that had to stop for her health.

If you don't want governments telling you how to eat, do you want PETA instead?

A human needs a certain percentage of fat, protein, and carbs, in that order. It's too hard to do with plant food only. That's extreme.

"Everything in moderation."

Smile

The Shop

Sparkalounger
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2/5/2013 9:27am
I haven't really looked to research your claim but if so, couldn't their (China's) problem be that the latest generations are deferring from their diet and eating a lot more processed food (embracing our western diet)?
Sparkalounger
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2/5/2013 9:36am
I am not deating, just looking at different view points...

so why is China so out of control all of a sudden?

Maybe this?

Asia accounts for 60% of the world's diabetic population. In recent decades, Asia has undergone rapid economic development, urbanization, and transitions in nutritional status (3). These have led to an explosive increase in diabetes prevalence within a relatively short time. In 1980, less than 1% of Chinese adults had the disease. By 2008, the prevalence had reached nearly 10% (Fig. 1) (4). It was estimated that more than 92 million Chinese adults had diabetes, and another 148 million were prediabetic. These numbers suggest that China has overtaken India as the global epicenter of the diabetes epidemic. However, in urban areas of south India, the prevalence of diabetes has reached nearly 20% (5).

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/6/1249.full
TFS
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2/5/2013 9:37am
I haven't really looked to research your claim but if so, couldn't their (China's) problem be that the latest generations are deferring from their diet and...
I haven't really looked to research your claim but if so, couldn't their (China's) problem be that the latest generations are deferring from their diet and eating a lot more processed food (embracing our western diet)?
It could very well be that China's new T2 diabetes problem is caused by more people eating processed foods, "Western style."

Since the Western "experts" are still puzzled about what caused our epidemic, what does that say about their credibility?
Sparkalounger
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2/5/2013 10:51am
I wonder who funded FOK, PETA?
2/5/2013 11:34am
I haven't really looked to research your claim but if so, couldn't their (China's) problem be that the latest generations are deferring from their diet and...
I haven't really looked to research your claim but if so, couldn't their (China's) problem be that the latest generations are deferring from their diet and eating a lot more processed food (embracing our western diet)?
TFS wrote:
It could very well be that China's new T2 diabetes problem is caused by more people eating processed foods, "Western style." Since the Western "experts" are...
It could very well be that China's new T2 diabetes problem is caused by more people eating processed foods, "Western style."

Since the Western "experts" are still puzzled about what caused our epidemic, what does that say about their credibility?
bingo was his name-o.
TFS
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2/5/2013 3:02pm
I wonder who funded FOK, PETA?
Dunno, but if you want to read a mini novel by my favorite x-vegan, Denise Minger, read this:

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit…

Yeah she cites studies too, but her specialty is taking studies apart and picking out the bullshit. This is what she is famous for, besides being a hottie...
Sparkalounger
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2/5/2013 3:23pm
i read a lot f that this morning... a lot of the questions I had while watching were answered thats for sure.
2/14/2013 10:31am
Being that Ryno broke his back, it reminded me of a story I got of him related to Paleo. Showing a side of his personality that most people arent aware of.

Ryno is super big on the Paleo Diet. And despite being a ex-pro MXer, he's actually VERY well read on health. The guy is a wealth of information and done a tremendous amount of research in order to educate himself as much as anyone. One thing he does do that most also probably arent aware of is he encourages a lot of his training students to read and educate themselves.

Back when JT first got me on the Paleo kick, I emailed Ryno about some questions I had about it. Rather than email me back, he called me from his cell phone. I was in Italy at the time and he knew it. He spoke to me on the phone for a good 45 minutes on his own dime. He answered all my questions and then some. Lord knows how much that cost him to make that call. But he didnt care, he just loves to teach.
jtomasik
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2/14/2013 11:07am
If you're dying for some food from your 'old' diet, my girlfriend and I tried the recipe below, added macadamia nuts, and they're kick-ass:

Paleo chocolate chip cookies
Wolfman
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2/22/2013 7:52am Edited Date/Time 2/22/2013 7:53am
Jeffro, you been sticking with it? Got any updates.

I'm wanting to try this diet too. Hardest thing would be giving up the booze. I've been a six pack and pint of vodka a night drinker Gore's awhile now.
2/24/2013 10:26pm
I got my lil brother on the Paleo kick last month.

In 4 weeks he's lost 10 lbs.
2/24/2013 10:34pm
Here is me last June at the start of when I really started taking the Paleo super serious...



one month later...




just a few days ago....these shorts used to not need a belt last year this time.



Choppy
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2/26/2013 5:42pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2013 5:47pm
I am not deating, just looking at different view points... so why is China so out of control all of a sudden? Maybe this? Asia accounts...
I am not deating, just looking at different view points...

so why is China so out of control all of a sudden?

Maybe this?

Asia accounts for 60% of the world's diabetic population. In recent decades, Asia has undergone rapid economic development, urbanization, and transitions in nutritional status (3). These have led to an explosive increase in diabetes prevalence within a relatively short time. In 1980, less than 1% of Chinese adults had the disease. By 2008, the prevalence had reached nearly 10% (Fig. 1) (4). It was estimated that more than 92 million Chinese adults had diabetes, and another 148 million were prediabetic. These numbers suggest that China has overtaken India as the global epicenter of the diabetes epidemic. However, in urban areas of south India, the prevalence of diabetes has reached nearly 20% (5).

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/6/1249.full
Statistics seem to be the devil for people that don't really understand them, and even those in my field. Not to "downplay" diabetes, but it reminds me of when I was working for the CDC when the AIDS epedemic started, and that entire time. We had stats from studies that stated something like 60 to 70% of Africa had AIDS, which we later found out that malaria raised the false positive percentage from about 1% to 70 and even 80%. By the time the community had written and showed the problems with the testing, funding for malaria was majorly cut and sent for AIDS prevention. They needed and still need mosquito nets because AIDS was never the problem and it ultimately lead to my resignation.

I look at some of these studies for diabetes, even some from places like Cornell and see some of the same testing procedures that resulted in the false positives with AIDS and shake my head.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like dehydration and other things causing false positives for diabetes in Asia.

As for the Paleo diet, I'm on a highly modified version of it and I'll say this;

:Have you ever seen a person get fat that only snacks on fruits and veggies?:
Sparkalounger
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2/26/2013 5:55pm
I know, if I would have taken pics they would look just like Jabroni's...
I eat more calories per day and am as trim as ever...
For some reason people just dont want to hear it, they think, "yeah, we are all not the same, it's not for me" (while they are 50lbs overweight...)
Choppy
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2/26/2013 6:14pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2013 6:16pm
I know, if I would have taken pics they would look just like Jabroni's... I eat more calories per day and am as trim as ever...
I know, if I would have taken pics they would look just like Jabroni's...
I eat more calories per day and am as trim as ever...
For some reason people just dont want to hear it, they think, "yeah, we are all not the same, it's not for me" (while they are 50lbs overweight...)
None of us are the same. That's why malnutrition tests given in clinical tests to people eating the exact same things come back different. (Minus the errors that occur naturally in any test)
That's not to say we shouldn't be close on a baseline diet.
Sparkalounger
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2/26/2013 6:36pm
I agree that there will be some modifications needed for people whom have some abnormalities... but basic whole food eating is the minimal that we all should be doing. Thats all I do, whole foods minus the wheat.
For a special treat tonight, my wife made some coconut flour based cookies with a little pure maple syrup for sweetener, no processed sugar. Boy they were tasty. Its amazing how much better food tastes when you get off the sugar bus...
bd
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2/27/2013 6:20pm
My diet is similar to the Paleo diet with some modification. I have not eaten processed foods, sugars, and salts since September 2012. I used meditation to break my addiction to processed sugar. However, I still eat fruit. 95% of vegetables and fruits are organic. If I had the money, I would purchase local organic. Depending on your location, local organic can be cheaper than store. 95% of the muscle I eat is wild caught fish. The remaining .05% is farm raised fish. Wild caught fish has far more health benefits.

If you eat other muscles such as beef, pork, chicken etc., I highly recommend eating grass fed, no hormone, free range. Additionally, wild caught deer, pork, duck, turkey etc. are even healthier. If you eat cheese and milk, find organic free range raw dairy.

All my acidic foods such muscle, raw nuts, raw seeds are eaten with highly alkalinic foods such as kale, lettuce, collard greens, chard. Acidic and alkalanic foods are based off the minerals. The American diet is highly acidic. This is the reason why many Americans have disease, inflammation, and overweight. Sodas and processed foods are VERY acidic. 75% of my fruits and veggies are eaten raw for live enzymes which are needed for healthy gut.

I use sun warrior (rice protein, non GMO) protein for shakes.

I incorporate super foods such as raw organic: cocoa, hemp seeds, spirulina, maca (nature’s sex care), raw “local” honey (nature’s allergies care), coconut oil, Cayenne pepper (assist with digestion), chia seeds, camu into my diet.

Salt is healthy when not processed. Use something like sea salt.

Cooking with oil: use coconut oil. The majority of other oils become rancid when get too hot. If use olive oil, cook foods slow.
Raw olive oil, grape seed oil, hemp oil, and coconut oil are extremely healthy.

I feel incredible. I really enjoyed this thread. If you are interested in some great diet/health sites and books, check out:

mercola.com

bodyecology.com

“Super Foods” By David Wolfe – raw food guru

“Eating For Beauty” by David Wolfe – raw food guru

“The Body Ecology” by Donna Gates – pro biotic, healthy gut guru

dadamo.com- blood type diet guru

Food Inc. changed my life. I speak loudly against GMO, Monsanto, and Dupont.
bd
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2/27/2013 6:25pm
I know, if I would have taken pics they would look just like Jabroni's... I eat more calories per day and am as trim as ever...
I know, if I would have taken pics they would look just like Jabroni's...
I eat more calories per day and am as trim as ever...
For some reason people just dont want to hear it, they think, "yeah, we are all not the same, it's not for me" (while they are 50lbs overweight...)
Choppy wrote:
None of us are the same. That's why malnutrition tests given in clinical tests to people eating the exact same things come back different. (Minus the...
None of us are the same. That's why malnutrition tests given in clinical tests to people eating the exact same things come back different. (Minus the errors that occur naturally in any test)
That's not to say we shouldn't be close on a baseline diet.
Agree with this.....
Listen to your body. Are you weasing after eating? If so, make change in food.
Are you tired after eating? If so, either food is unhealthy or ate too much.
Your body will speak truth.
jtomasik
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3/3/2013 6:24pm
Wild meals today. Did the smoked pulled pork (12 hours on the smoker), blackened salmon steaks, coleslaw with raisins and apples, plantains fried in coconut oil, and deep fried soft shell crab. Damn good food!
3/3/2013 11:47pm
Choppy wrote:
None of us are the same. That's why malnutrition tests given in clinical tests to people eating the exact same things come back different. (Minus the...
None of us are the same. That's why malnutrition tests given in clinical tests to people eating the exact same things come back different. (Minus the errors that occur naturally in any test)
That's not to say we shouldn't be close on a baseline diet.
Agreed.
3/3/2013 11:49pm
What's everyone take on Paul Chek?

The guy is super interesting.
Underdog999
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4/23/2013 11:17am
Have any of you guys heard about the site they dug up in Israel, Ohalo 2, that is 23,000 years old? They found thousands of barley and wheat seeds at that site. They said that those people all ate wheat. This was the first site they found seeds because this site was "frozen in time."
jtomasik
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4/23/2013 11:22am
Have any of you guys heard about the site they dug up in Israel, Ohalo 2, that is 23,000 years old? They found thousands of barley...
Have any of you guys heard about the site they dug up in Israel, Ohalo 2, that is 23,000 years old? They found thousands of barley and wheat seeds at that site. They said that those people all ate wheat. This was the first site they found seeds because this site was "frozen in time."
There have been reports that seeds were found in the teeth of early man's fossils (not sure of the exact date). I'd imagine if you're hungry, if certain foods aren't readily available, and you're a hunter/gatherer, you'll eat a lot of things you might not otherwise. Hell, animals will eat their own feces, and I'd imagine that would be an option if you're really subject to the elements.

Regardless, there are toxins in the grain that are problematic for our species. Since food supply really isn't a huge issue in the U.S., grain can be an option and not a staple of the diet.
Underdog999
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4/23/2013 11:30am
Have any of you guys heard about the site they dug up in Israel, Ohalo 2, that is 23,000 years old? They found thousands of barley...
Have any of you guys heard about the site they dug up in Israel, Ohalo 2, that is 23,000 years old? They found thousands of barley and wheat seeds at that site. They said that those people all ate wheat. This was the first site they found seeds because this site was "frozen in time."
jtomasik wrote:
There have been reports that seeds were found in the teeth of early man's fossils (not sure of the exact date). I'd imagine if you're hungry...
There have been reports that seeds were found in the teeth of early man's fossils (not sure of the exact date). I'd imagine if you're hungry, if certain foods aren't readily available, and you're a hunter/gatherer, you'll eat a lot of things you might not otherwise. Hell, animals will eat their own feces, and I'd imagine that would be an option if you're really subject to the elements.

Regardless, there are toxins in the grain that are problematic for our species. Since food supply really isn't a huge issue in the U.S., grain can be an option and not a staple of the diet.
This was their "main" diet. Have you even heard about this? Or does your Paleo just dismiss the evidence? I am curious since Paleo is based on how man used to live?
Underdog999
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4/23/2013 11:36am
They were right next to the Sea of Galilee, so they fished. They also found jaw bones of deer at the site, so we know they also ate meat. They were not going going "hungry" as you say.

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