Russia steals revolutionary US engine design

jango
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jango
Edited Date/Time 1/23/2012 12:15am
Russia is taking great pride in a new hybrid car called the e-Mobile or Yo-Mobile going into production, with support from Prime Minister Putin and the richest man in Russia. It turns out that the rotary vane engine design strongly resembles Raphial Morgado's MYT engine. Article found here
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Void Main
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Void Main 7/10/2011 5:04pm
7/10/2011 5:04pm
Well they didn't exactly steal it. They copied it. If they stole the design then Morgado would no longer have the design. If it's good technology then good for them. Look what happens when you sit on the idea to try and figure out how to make the most money off of it. It just sits there and nobody benefits. Flame away...
Void Main
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Void Main 7/10/2011 5:13pm
7/10/2011 5:13pm Edited Date/Time 7/10/2011 5:15pm
I don't really understand the principles that make its cycle work just from looking at the image:



Can anyone explain it? Yes, I understand how the expansion/compression work but what principles are at work that cause the rotation?
BUTCH
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BUTCH 7/10/2011 5:14pm
7/10/2011 5:14pm
Cool video!
jtomasik
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jtomasik 7/10/2011 5:18pm
7/10/2011 5:18pm
Damn. Sucks for Raphial. That's a cool idea he has. I think I heard about this a few years ago, and I've been wondering what happened to the technology.

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newmann
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newmann 7/10/2011 5:19pm
7/10/2011 5:19pm
What a cool and simple design. Mr. Wankel meet Mr. Piston meet Mr. Hammer??
Void Main
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Void Main 7/10/2011 5:25pm
7/10/2011 5:25pm
Okay, I think I understand how the rotation happens even though they didn't really explain it. There must be a mechanism/catch that only allows the pistons to turn in one direction.
BUTCH
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BUTCH 7/10/2011 5:30pm
7/10/2011 5:30pm
Void Main wrote:
Okay, I think I understand how the rotation happens even though they didn't really explain it. There must be a mechanism/catch that only allows the pistons...
Okay, I think I understand how the rotation happens even though they didn't really explain it. There must be a mechanism/catch that only allows the pistons to turn in one direction.
Correct!
Void Main
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Void Main 7/10/2011 5:32pm
7/10/2011 5:32pm



Void Main
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Void Main 7/10/2011 5:48pm
7/10/2011 5:48pm
Interesting statement near the end (starting around 8:30) of the first video. So much for that idea. Smile














90smxer
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90smxer 7/10/2011 6:35pm
7/10/2011 6:35pm
I showed my dad, who has been an engine designer for over 40 years, this video and he said this type of thinking has been around since the 1950's. He says it is pretty much a gimmick that will not work in the real world. I will have to get further explanation but he reiterated that this type of design has been around for a really long time.
Void Main
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Void Main 7/10/2011 6:45pm
7/10/2011 6:45pm
90smxer wrote:
I showed my dad, who has been an engine designer for over 40 years, this video and he said this type of thinking has been around...
I showed my dad, who has been an engine designer for over 40 years, this video and he said this type of thinking has been around since the 1950's. He says it is pretty much a gimmick that will not work in the real world. I will have to get further explanation but he reiterated that this type of design has been around for a really long time.
He might be right. I have been looking over the patent and all of the patents that it is based off of and you would think that it would have been mass produced by now. Maybe the Russians figured out how to actually apply it. Here is Ralph's patent:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

Here's a newer patent that lists Ralph's patent in it's list of related patents:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

In that list there is one from 1973 that sounds VERY similar to the principles that Ralph's:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

Actually there were several that sounded similar.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 7/10/2011 7:16pm
7/10/2011 7:16pm
fuel metering is the issue here...anybody can see that
unknownmxr 7/10/2011 9:09pm
7/10/2011 9:09pm
probably the same emissions issue as with turbine engines, also the vane seal might be a problem as with rotary engines.
edub
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edub 7/11/2011 12:45am
7/11/2011 12:45am
Besides emissions, I doubt that the pistons and cylinder formed as a ring (torus) will be cheap and reliable. It is difficult to seal.

Maybe the Russians just waste money on it?

edub
Void Main
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Void Main 7/11/2011 5:12am
7/11/2011 5:12am
According to Ralph in the one video the emissions should be far better than the current internal combustion engine and the sealing should be even better as the only thing that ever touches the cylinder walls is the ring, unlike in the current internal combustion engine design where the piston slops around in the cylinder which also causes excess friction and is less efficient:




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jtomasik
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jtomasik 7/11/2011 6:51am
7/11/2011 6:51am
jango wrote:
Russia is taking great pride in a new hybrid car called the e-Mobile or Yo-Mobile going into production, with support from Prime Minister Putin and the...
Russia is taking great pride in a new hybrid car called the e-Mobile or Yo-Mobile going into production, with support from Prime Minister Putin and the richest man in Russia. It turns out that the rotary vane engine design strongly resembles Raphial Morgado's MYT engine. Article found here
Actually, looks like that concept has been around a long time, and a version of it was even in production back during WWII. So, the Russians didn't steal anything from America, because this latest MYT group is just reintroducing an old technology and marketing it as something new, which is bullshit.

MYT not inventor of swing engine principle


But, it sure is fun thinking we're always at the front of technology and claiming everyone else rips us off....lol....

...wave the flag, boys. Wave the flag.
Void Main
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Void Main 7/11/2011 7:15am
7/11/2011 7:15am
We already pointed out in this thread that there are already several patents with similar concepts many of them listed in Ralph's own patent. It would be cool if the technology is as great as Ralph says it is and it's cool that the Russians are bringing it to production. It means they can be our proving ground and then we can mass produce it as long as the lawyers allow it. Wink
unknownmxr 7/11/2011 10:39am
7/11/2011 10:39am
The point where the piston attaches to the ring is high stress. It is cantilevered out. Compare this with conventional design with the piston pin in the center. We all know that is not 100% reliable.
There are issues with centripetal acceleration (piston will pull outwards at high rpm) and metal expansion of the ring as it heats up.
Spartacus
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Spartacus 7/11/2011 6:27pm
7/11/2011 6:27pm
They don't have to steal shit, they can just ask our friends the Israelis. Oh wait, that was military drones the Israelis sold them....my bad. Carry on.
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wildbill 7/11/2011 10:48pm
7/11/2011 10:48pm
90smxer wrote:
I showed my dad, who has been an engine designer for over 40 years, this video and he said this type of thinking has been around...
I showed my dad, who has been an engine designer for over 40 years, this video and he said this type of thinking has been around since the 1950's. He says it is pretty much a gimmick that will not work in the real world. I will have to get further explanation but he reiterated that this type of design has been around for a really long time.
Void Main wrote:
He might be right. I have been looking over the patent and all of the patents that it is based off of and you would think...
He might be right. I have been looking over the patent and all of the patents that it is based off of and you would think that it would have been mass produced by now. Maybe the Russians figured out how to actually apply it. Here is Ralph's patent:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

Here's a newer patent that lists Ralph's patent in it's list of related patents:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

In that list there is one from 1973 that sounds VERY similar to the principles that Ralph's:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

Actually there were several that sounded similar.
who runs big money?

with oil reserves harder to obtain and kitchen sinks igniting via fracking, maybe it's time to use a design that's financially appropriate as long as oil keeps increasing in value.
Void Main
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Void Main 7/12/2011 4:45am
7/12/2011 4:45am
90smxer wrote:
I showed my dad, who has been an engine designer for over 40 years, this video and he said this type of thinking has been around...
I showed my dad, who has been an engine designer for over 40 years, this video and he said this type of thinking has been around since the 1950's. He says it is pretty much a gimmick that will not work in the real world. I will have to get further explanation but he reiterated that this type of design has been around for a really long time.
Void Main wrote:
He might be right. I have been looking over the patent and all of the patents that it is based off of and you would think...
He might be right. I have been looking over the patent and all of the patents that it is based off of and you would think that it would have been mass produced by now. Maybe the Russians figured out how to actually apply it. Here is Ralph's patent:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

Here's a newer patent that lists Ralph's patent in it's list of related patents:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

In that list there is one from 1973 that sounds VERY similar to the principles that Ralph's:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&…

Actually there were several that sounded similar.
wildbill wrote:
who runs big money? with oil reserves harder to obtain and kitchen sinks igniting via fracking, maybe it's time to use a design that's financially appropriate...
who runs big money?

with oil reserves harder to obtain and kitchen sinks igniting via fracking, maybe it's time to use a design that's financially appropriate as long as oil keeps increasing in value.
It can only happen in America if the lawyers in control of all the related patent/IP encumbered bullshit allow it to happen (i.e. find a way to get rich off of it). Maybe that's why the Russians are able to make it work, they don't care about all that bullshit.

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