Gwinett co Ga couple killed after police chase

hillbilly
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Edited Date/Time 2/7/2016 2:18pm
http://patch.com/georgia/johnscreek/two-dead-following-police-chase-out…

http://www.examiner.com/article/father-son-fleeing-from-police-charged-…

This father son duo are from my county. The dad was in jail recently and the son was on fb asking for a bond signee.

Live 80 yrs and die like that,
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motogeezer
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1/31/2016 3:25pm
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases.

Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their house, instead of giving chase, that elderly couple would still be alive, enjoying their retirement.

Police chases really ought to be limited to only known dangerous suspects, fleeing the scene of a serious crime.

There will still be unfortunate accidents like this one, but far fewer.
agn5009
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1/31/2016 3:47pm
motogeezer wrote:
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases. Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their...
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases.

Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their house, instead of giving chase, that elderly couple would still be alive, enjoying their retirement.

Police chases really ought to be limited to only known dangerous suspects, fleeing the scene of a serious crime.

There will still be unfortunate accidents like this one, but far fewer.
Seriously? Wow. People will find any reason to blame the police. If the officer had stopped the chase and the DRUNK asshole driving the car had gone a few miles down the road, crashed and killed someone because of his intoxication then people like you would still be blaming the officer. How about blaming the person who caused all of this? Why do people have to find others to blame other than the one who caused the whole event?
mattmatt300
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1/31/2016 5:49pm
motogeezer wrote:
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases. Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their...
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases.

Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their house, instead of giving chase, that elderly couple would still be alive, enjoying their retirement.

Police chases really ought to be limited to only known dangerous suspects, fleeing the scene of a serious crime.

There will still be unfortunate accidents like this one, but far fewer.
agn5009 wrote:
Seriously? Wow. People will find any reason to blame the police. If the officer had stopped the chase and the DRUNK asshole driving the car had...
Seriously? Wow. People will find any reason to blame the police. If the officer had stopped the chase and the DRUNK asshole driving the car had gone a few miles down the road, crashed and killed someone because of his intoxication then people like you would still be blaming the officer. How about blaming the person who caused all of this? Why do people have to find others to blame other than the one who caused the whole event?
This. Just looking for a way to blame anybody but the poor dindonuffin that caused the accident.
motogeezer
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1/31/2016 5:58pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2016 5:58pm
Not what I'm saying at all.

There are instances when it's important to get someone off the street ASAP.

Someone known to be armed and dangerous, or someone that's already diving in such a way that they're endangering others.

Initiating a dangerous situation by giving chase when the offense was a minor traffic infraction is a bad idea.

Not blaming the cop at all, that's what his training called for.

I'm saying that there needs to be a different protocol for initiating a chase.

The Shop

1/31/2016 6:05pm
motogeezer wrote:
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases. Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their...
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases.

Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their house, instead of giving chase, that elderly couple would still be alive, enjoying their retirement.

Police chases really ought to be limited to only known dangerous suspects, fleeing the scene of a serious crime.

There will still be unfortunate accidents like this one, but far fewer.
Then in his defense he'd say it wasn't him driving his car. And prove it. Which they couldn't prove. No case.
motogeezer
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1/31/2016 6:11pm
Then in his defense he'd say it wasn't him driving his car. And prove it. Which they couldn't prove. No case.
No deaths, either.
bsm121
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1/31/2016 6:13pm
Drone strike would be much safer.
agn5009
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2/1/2016 7:11am
Then in his defense he'd say it wasn't him driving his car. And prove it. Which they couldn't prove. No case.
motogeezer wrote:
No deaths, either.
You're assuming no deaths would have happened. You seem to be forgetting that he was drunk. You're not thinking logically at all. There's a reason he ran from the police, and it wasn't the minor traffic violation.
jndmx
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2/1/2016 7:42am
bsm121 wrote:
Drone strike would be much safer.
Now you're thinking outside the box....
motogeezer
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2/1/2016 7:49am
agn5009 wrote:
You're assuming no deaths would have happened. You seem to be forgetting that he was drunk. You're not thinking logically at all. There's a reason he...
You're assuming no deaths would have happened. You seem to be forgetting that he was drunk. You're not thinking logically at all. There's a reason he ran from the police, and it wasn't the minor traffic violation.
Maybe he would have made it home, maybe not, but giving chase increased the odds of an accident exponentially.

So, in your opinion, chasing down a guy who may or may not have been breaking other laws is worth risking innocent lives?
agn5009
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2/1/2016 9:10am
agn5009 wrote:
You're assuming no deaths would have happened. You seem to be forgetting that he was drunk. You're not thinking logically at all. There's a reason he...
You're assuming no deaths would have happened. You seem to be forgetting that he was drunk. You're not thinking logically at all. There's a reason he ran from the police, and it wasn't the minor traffic violation.
motogeezer wrote:
Maybe he would have made it home, maybe not, but giving chase increased the odds of an accident exponentially. So, in your opinion, chasing down a...
Maybe he would have made it home, maybe not, but giving chase increased the odds of an accident exponentially.

So, in your opinion, chasing down a guy who may or may not have been breaking other laws is worth risking innocent lives?
Like I said, your views are completely unrealistic. What, to you, constitutes a dangerous person? Do you think YOUR views and opinions on a dangerous person is the same as everyone else? To me, a dangerous person is someone who is willing to flee from a police officer and endanger everyone else's lives by traveling at high rates of speeds and ignoring other traffic signs and signals. And to be honest with you, the majority obviously agrees with my view because the united states has granted each department the opportunity to implement their own pursuit policy. Do you know why? Because fleeing and eluding is a felony offfense. It's not some bull shit traffic offense.

Also, a lot of the time when someone is fleeing, that license plate is dead or stolen for obvious reasons. Often times that plate hasnt even been reported stolen or entered into NCIC yet. So your theory of just copying down the plate number and meeting them at their house is just plain stupid.

I think you're a pretty reasonable guy, not a troll or anything like that. But you're not thinking a situation like this the whole way through. People (not necessarily you) often gain unrealistic expectations from movies and such.
motogeezer
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2/1/2016 9:31am
Well, maybe it's because I live a half hour east of the police chase capitol of the world.

I see shit like this on a regular basis and would really like to understand why innocent lives need to be put at risk because some asshole panicked and ran from a traffic stop.

I know my idea that a license plate number will lead to the offender isn't a sure bet, but nine times out of ten it will.

Most people who flee are minor offenders, or maybe have an outstanding warrant, or maybe their passenger has a crack pipe in her purse.

I understand that the police officer making the stop has no idea why they might be fleeing, but in most cases, it's something minor, and not worth putting the public at risk.

If they just saw the suspects leaving the scene of a major crime, by all means, go after the bastards.
2/1/2016 10:35am
I think that more people would be fleeing if they know that police will not pursue and will still cause damage.

What a great way to teach lack of civility. Let's make running from the police a casual sport. In Los Angeles 50% of auto accidents are hit and runs. What an awesome way to live
Finding the registered owner of a vehicle is not enough to convict them of a crime.



huck
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2/1/2016 11:16am Edited Date/Time 2/1/2016 11:16am
motogeezer wrote:
Well, maybe it's because I live a half hour east of the police chase capitol of the world. I see shit like this on a regular...
Well, maybe it's because I live a half hour east of the police chase capitol of the world.

I see shit like this on a regular basis and would really like to understand why innocent lives need to be put at risk because some asshole panicked and ran from a traffic stop.

I know my idea that a license plate number will lead to the offender isn't a sure bet, but nine times out of ten it will.

Most people who flee are minor offenders, or maybe have an outstanding warrant, or maybe their passenger has a crack pipe in her purse.

I understand that the police officer making the stop has no idea why they might be fleeing, but in most cases, it's something minor, and not worth putting the public at risk.

If they just saw the suspects leaving the scene of a major crime, by all means, go after the bastards.
How does the officer know what is minor or major?

Maybe the person fleeing has a kidnapped child in the back?
Maybe the person fleeing has a trunk full of explosives that they were taking to a school?
Maybe the person fleeing is driving a stolen car, so going to the house and arresting somebody that had their car stolen won't help much...


Lots of assumptions here.
motogeezer
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2/1/2016 12:43pm
huck wrote:
How does the officer know what is minor or major? Maybe the person fleeing has a kidnapped child in the back? Maybe the person fleeing has...
How does the officer know what is minor or major?

Maybe the person fleeing has a kidnapped child in the back?
Maybe the person fleeing has a trunk full of explosives that they were taking to a school?
Maybe the person fleeing is driving a stolen car, so going to the house and arresting somebody that had their car stolen won't help much...


Lots of assumptions here.
Maybe, maybe, maybe...

Maybe the kidnapped child will die when the pursuit ends in a crash.

Maybe the driver with the trunk-load of explosives will loose control and blow up a crowded shopping center instead.

Maybe a stolen car isn't important enough to risk innocent lives over.
huck
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2/1/2016 12:44pm
huck wrote:
How does the officer know what is minor or major? Maybe the person fleeing has a kidnapped child in the back? Maybe the person fleeing has...
How does the officer know what is minor or major?

Maybe the person fleeing has a kidnapped child in the back?
Maybe the person fleeing has a trunk full of explosives that they were taking to a school?
Maybe the person fleeing is driving a stolen car, so going to the house and arresting somebody that had their car stolen won't help much...


Lots of assumptions here.
motogeezer wrote:
Maybe, maybe, maybe... Maybe the kidnapped child will die when the pursuit ends in a crash. Maybe the driver with the trunk-load of explosives will loose...
Maybe, maybe, maybe...

Maybe the kidnapped child will die when the pursuit ends in a crash.

Maybe the driver with the trunk-load of explosives will loose control and blow up a crowded shopping center instead.

Maybe a stolen car isn't important enough to risk innocent lives over.
That just proves my point even more... An officer can't know WHAT is going to happen, so he should enforce the law to the fullest of his ability and pull these people over, not just allow them to continue.

agn5009
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2/1/2016 1:27pm
huck wrote:
How does the officer know what is minor or major? Maybe the person fleeing has a kidnapped child in the back? Maybe the person fleeing has...
How does the officer know what is minor or major?

Maybe the person fleeing has a kidnapped child in the back?
Maybe the person fleeing has a trunk full of explosives that they were taking to a school?
Maybe the person fleeing is driving a stolen car, so going to the house and arresting somebody that had their car stolen won't help much...


Lots of assumptions here.
motogeezer wrote:
Maybe, maybe, maybe... Maybe the kidnapped child will die when the pursuit ends in a crash. Maybe the driver with the trunk-load of explosives will loose...
Maybe, maybe, maybe...

Maybe the kidnapped child will die when the pursuit ends in a crash.

Maybe the driver with the trunk-load of explosives will loose control and blow up a crowded shopping center instead.

Maybe a stolen car isn't important enough to risk innocent lives over.
You essentially just proved everyone else in this thread correct. You're one sided and only throwing the "maybes" that you want out there. This is why people like you don't create or enforce laws. Because you can't see or comprehend the whole truth. You're blind to your own opinion (which is completely incorrect by the way.)
agn5009
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2/1/2016 2:02pm
hillbilly wrote:
This happened last night

http://m.wcyb.com/news/3-dead-in-greeneville-crash/37746918

Go by there daily,if the tree hadnt been there theyd went thru a house,long way from the road .
I think the question that needs to be asked is why are there so many idiots in that area? Why are there so many pursuits? I'm starting to think maybe fleeing and eluding offenders aren't charged with enough. Maybe they need to be jailed longer because people obviously aren't reacting right to the law. Maybe a mandatory sentence in state prison? And someone here actually thinks it'd be beneficial for police to not pursue. Yep, that's going to stop them and lower recidivism.
motogeezer
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2/1/2016 2:17pm
agn5009 wrote:
You essentially just proved everyone else in this thread correct. You're one sided and only throwing the "maybes" that you want out there. This is why...
You essentially just proved everyone else in this thread correct. You're one sided and only throwing the "maybes" that you want out there. This is why people like you don't create or enforce laws. Because you can't see or comprehend the whole truth. You're blind to your own opinion (which is completely incorrect by the way.)
I guess we're both blind to each other's opinion.

Huck brought up the "maybes", BTW.

I just took them in another direction.
2/1/2016 2:32pm
hillbilly wrote:
http://patch.com/georgia/johnscreek/two-dead-following-police-chase-out-johns-creek http://www.examiner.com/article/father-son-fleeing-from-police-charged-after-elderly-couple-killed-chase This father son duo are from my county. The dad was in jail recently and the son was on fb asking for a bond...
http://patch.com/georgia/johnscreek/two-dead-following-police-chase-out…

http://www.examiner.com/article/father-son-fleeing-from-police-charged-…

This father son duo are from my county. The dad was in jail recently and the son was on fb asking for a bond signee.

Live 80 yrs and die like that,
Nothing says "classy" like looking for a bond signee on Facebook. Good God.

agn5009
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2/1/2016 2:43pm
agn5009 wrote:
You essentially just proved everyone else in this thread correct. You're one sided and only throwing the "maybes" that you want out there. This is why...
You essentially just proved everyone else in this thread correct. You're one sided and only throwing the "maybes" that you want out there. This is why people like you don't create or enforce laws. Because you can't see or comprehend the whole truth. You're blind to your own opinion (which is completely incorrect by the way.)
motogeezer wrote:
I guess we're both blind to each other's opinion.

Huck brought up the "maybes", BTW.

I just took them in another direction.
Let me ask you, where do you draw the line? Essentially fleeing is a felony offense (in my state at least, can't say for sure that every state is the same) do you pursue if there's a report of a gun? A knife? Baseball batt? What if the police received a call for a reckless driver who is swerving in and out of traffic? Police find them and they take off? Do police pursue? What happens when police don't pursue because they obviously haven't talked to the complainants yet and they find out that driver struck multiple vehicles, caused injuries or death due to his driving. Are you going to back the police and say they were correct in not pursuing because it was impossible for them to know that info? Or are you going to blast them because they didn't pursue? What happens if the car takes off on police and immediately stricks another vehicle or a kid on a bike? Should the police pursue them now? Or just get their plate and meet them at their house? What happens if the car takes off immediately and simply side swipes a vehicle? Do they pursue?

Believe it or not, if someone flees they're not slowing down any time soon. They're speeding and driving recklessly for an extended period of time. Do you think the asshole will look in his rear view mirror and see the cop turned his emergency lights off and decide to slow down then? So basically they're putting everyone in danger no matter what. So should police just not conduct any traffic stops in fear of a possible pursuit?

Also, I've been in quite a few pursuits, and yes most of them either didn't have a license plate at all, the plate was stolen, or the vehicle was stolen. Not sure where you're getting your statistics from or where exactly you've gained your expertise, but in my (actual) experience in dealing with these situations I can confidently say you're wrong. And most people involved in pursuits either just committed a crime, are running a shit ton of drugs, or have an arrest warrant (not a bull shit bench warrant for summary or traffic offense.)
motogeezer
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2/1/2016 2:57pm
Let me ask you, where do you draw the line?


I've already stated where I'd draw the line.
agn5009
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2/1/2016 3:07pm
Yeah, you did. Someone armed and dangerous. Dangerous to who? The cop, pedestrians, a victim? Anyone at all? You also say someone driving erratically. Wouldn't you consider someone taking off from police, which is typically in conjunction with speeding, passing cars, running red lights and stop signs driving erratically? Do you get what I'm saying? You're completely contradicting yourself. So by your logic police should only not pursue people who are not armed or dangerous and people following traffic laws. Do you understand that basically never happens? You're very, very rarely going to have a pursuit with someone driving normally and not endangering lives
2/1/2016 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 2/1/2016 5:07pm
agn5009 wrote:
I think the question that needs to be asked is why are there so many idiots in that area? Why are there so many pursuits? I'm...
I think the question that needs to be asked is why are there so many idiots in that area? Why are there so many pursuits? I'm starting to think maybe fleeing and eluding offenders aren't charged with enough. Maybe they need to be jailed longer because people obviously aren't reacting right to the law. Maybe a mandatory sentence in state prison? And someone here actually thinks it'd be beneficial for police to not pursue. Yep, that's going to stop them and lower recidivism.
I believe this guy had a couple convictions for evading and being an extra big @**hole, evading with enhancement for public danger. Of course California legislators like to treat "non violent" criminals kindly.

The San Bernardino County Sheriff Department was ready for a chase when they were looking for him after a home invasion robbery. Thank you SBCSD.

http://ktla.com/2015/09/18/pursuit-crash-and-fatal-shooting-leads-to-cl…
hillbilly
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2/2/2016 1:19pm
The way these guys get out of jail here,like a revolving door,i think a cop should weigh the possible outcome a bit.

If the criminal had just shot someone then a chase may be a good idea but for speeding no way just no way.

Because,the jail is full here and they will be out asap,it would be for nothing.

And,they want 12 million to build a bigger jail here.

I say use one of the many grocery store or the old walmart building and build a fence inside with some bunks and port a johns.
h&m_cycle
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2/2/2016 5:37pm
motogeezer wrote:
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases. Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their...
It makes you wonder about the efficacy of police chases.

Had the pursuing officer just taken down their plate number and waited for them at their house, instead of giving chase, that elderly couple would still be alive, enjoying their retirement.

Police chases really ought to be limited to only known dangerous suspects, fleeing the scene of a serious crime.

There will still be unfortunate accidents like this one, but far fewer.
Shit... they don't give a fuck... Lowndes County, Georgia Sheriff's Department were chasing a Rice Rocket Gas Skip
at over 100 mph on busy Interstate 75... All these gas station have cameras for license plate #'s...

I'm glad I don't live near Ga. anymore...
2/7/2016 11:01am
agn5009 wrote:
Let me ask you, where do you draw the line? Essentially fleeing is a felony offense (in my state at least, can't say for sure that...
Let me ask you, where do you draw the line? Essentially fleeing is a felony offense (in my state at least, can't say for sure that every state is the same) do you pursue if there's a report of a gun? A knife? Baseball batt? What if the police received a call for a reckless driver who is swerving in and out of traffic? Police find them and they take off? Do police pursue? What happens when police don't pursue because they obviously haven't talked to the complainants yet and they find out that driver struck multiple vehicles, caused injuries or death due to his driving. Are you going to back the police and say they were correct in not pursuing because it was impossible for them to know that info? Or are you going to blast them because they didn't pursue? What happens if the car takes off on police and immediately stricks another vehicle or a kid on a bike? Should the police pursue them now? Or just get their plate and meet them at their house? What happens if the car takes off immediately and simply side swipes a vehicle? Do they pursue?

Believe it or not, if someone flees they're not slowing down any time soon. They're speeding and driving recklessly for an extended period of time. Do you think the asshole will look in his rear view mirror and see the cop turned his emergency lights off and decide to slow down then? So basically they're putting everyone in danger no matter what. So should police just not conduct any traffic stops in fear of a possible pursuit?

Also, I've been in quite a few pursuits, and yes most of them either didn't have a license plate at all, the plate was stolen, or the vehicle was stolen. Not sure where you're getting your statistics from or where exactly you've gained your expertise, but in my (actual) experience in dealing with these situations I can confidently say you're wrong. And most people involved in pursuits either just committed a crime, are running a shit ton of drugs, or have an arrest warrant (not a bull shit bench warrant for summary or traffic offense.)

Only dead runners here. A perfect example of what someone with experience explained.
It will be interesting to see if the driver has been benefitting from San Francisco's and California's policy's to go easy on criminals. Even the passenger in the taxi left the scene.

http://www.mercurynews.com/san-francisco/ci_29487414/three-die-fiery-ca…

The CHP officer put out a radio call that he was in pursuit of the car, Williams said, but the officer discontinued the chase about 10 to 15 seconds later after he watched the white sedan run through several red lights.

Moments later, the Chevy exploded after crashing into a Yellow Cab that was in motion.

Williams said two victims inside the car were badly burned; a third victim was ejected onto the street. All were pronounced dead at the scene.

2/7/2016 2:18pm
They sound like nice guys. They probably had their hands up while they were running frim the cops.

"Jesse Thomas is charged with trafficking meth, trafficking morphine, possession with intent to distribute marijuana, possession of LSD, possession of cocaine, possession of a gun during the commission of a felony."

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