After watching Decotis

DP#201
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DP#201
Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 3:33pm
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different disiplines, each of one with outstanding level of competition.
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madmaxperformance 6/29/2013 12:04pm
6/29/2013 12:04pm
Yep, and then after watching Metcalf look pretty normal in Edmonton last weekend, I think the top Canadian guys like Facciotti and Klatt would be competitive as well. Seems like most places, the top guys are just plain fast, and riding the wheels off these bikes. Fun to see Metty out there after last weekend. It was a pleasure to see him ride, as well as the other top guys.

I think the GPs have really stepped up the overall pace though, and due to the gnarly tracks there, those riders have completely closed the gap. Too bad there wasnt an actual world championship series, with all the top guys. It would be freaking epic.
DP#201
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DP#201 6/29/2013 12:08pm
6/29/2013 12:08pm
madmaxperformance wrote:
Yep, and then after watching Metcalf look pretty normal in Edmonton last weekend, I think the top Canadian guys like Facciotti and Klatt would be competitive...
Yep, and then after watching Metcalf look pretty normal in Edmonton last weekend, I think the top Canadian guys like Facciotti and Klatt would be competitive as well. Seems like most places, the top guys are just plain fast, and riding the wheels off these bikes. Fun to see Metty out there after last weekend. It was a pleasure to see him ride, as well as the other top guys.

I think the GPs have really stepped up the overall pace though, and due to the gnarly tracks there, those riders have completely closed the gap. Too bad there wasnt an actual world championship series, with all the top guys. It would be freaking epic.
For sure cool to see Metcalf up front, and for so long.. i was thinking he could finish 3th, he looked good.. Great to see him out there..
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mccread 6/29/2013 12:14pm
6/29/2013 12:14pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 12:15pm
Riding in your own national championship and riding in a world championship is two totally different things. All riders are more comfortable in their own country.

The unique thing about the world championship is you race in different countries on a big variety of tracks so it is a more fair comparison.

The gap never needed to be closed either... there never was a gap. It was always a similar level just different.
THE mx addict 6/29/2013 12:26pm
6/29/2013 12:26pm
DP#201 wrote:
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different...
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different disiplines, each of one with outstanding level of competition.
I think Decotis isn't the best rider to follow to eventually make comparison between Nationals and GPs...

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jamma10 6/29/2013 12:28pm
6/29/2013 12:28pm
I'd like to see Baggett switch to CLS Kawi and challenge Herlings next year.
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mccread 6/29/2013 12:38pm
6/29/2013 12:38pm
jamma10 wrote:
I'd like to see Baggett switch to CLS Kawi and challenge Herlings next year.
That would be awesome.
andrewmckinstry 6/29/2013 12:39pm
6/29/2013 12:39pm
DP#201 wrote:
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different...
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different disiplines, each of one with outstanding level of competition.
we all know if an american came over and won yous would all go crazy and just say AMAs are better. But, you are right they are two very different championships. but gp's are better as their is more variety and more depth. Decotis was spot on in his interview.
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jamma10 6/29/2013 12:41pm
6/29/2013 12:41pm
DP#201 wrote:
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different...
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different disiplines, each of one with outstanding level of competition.
andrewmckinstry wrote:
we all know if an american came over and won yous would all go crazy and just say AMAs are better. But, you are right they...
we all know if an american came over and won yous would all go crazy and just say AMAs are better. But, you are right they are two very different championships. but gp's are better as their is more variety and more depth. Decotis was spot on in his interview.
The depth changes season to season, class to class though. I don't think you can make a blanket claim that either series has more depth overall, and certainly not for more than a season or two at a time.
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aidas512 6/29/2013 12:44pm
6/29/2013 12:44pm
mccread wrote:
Riding in your own national championship and riding in a world championship is two totally different things. All riders are more comfortable in their own country...
Riding in your own national championship and riding in a world championship is two totally different things. All riders are more comfortable in their own country.

The unique thing about the world championship is you race in different countries on a big variety of tracks so it is a more fair comparison.

The gap never needed to be closed either... there never was a gap. It was always a similar level just different.
There was a gap, and 4 strokes has definitely closed it.
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bobby397 6/29/2013 1:09pm
6/29/2013 1:09pm
I really believe top riders like RV, dungey, ac222, roczen etc. are the only type of guys to be competitive where ever they race.
DP#201
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DP#201 6/29/2013 1:21pm
6/29/2013 1:21pm
DP#201 wrote:
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different...
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different disiplines, each of one with outstanding level of competition.
andrewmckinstry wrote:
we all know if an american came over and won yous would all go crazy and just say AMAs are better. But, you are right they...
we all know if an american came over and won yous would all go crazy and just say AMAs are better. But, you are right they are two very different championships. but gp's are better as their is more variety and more depth. Decotis was spot on in his interview.
Do you have a link to that interview? I tryed to Google it, but i cant find the right on..
Motocross83 6/29/2013 1:23pm
6/29/2013 1:23pm
DP#201 wrote:
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different...
at southwich in moto 1, it just makes it even more clear that you cannot compaire the GP and the AMA nationals. It it two different disiplines, each of one with outstanding level of competition.
andrewmckinstry wrote:
we all know if an american came over and won yous would all go crazy and just say AMAs are better. But, you are right they...
we all know if an american came over and won yous would all go crazy and just say AMAs are better. But, you are right they are two very different championships. but gp's are better as their is more variety and more depth. Decotis was spot on in his interview.
DP#201 wrote:
Do you have a link to that interview? I tryed to Google it, but i cant find the right on..
http://www.vitalmx.com/photos/features/To-Europe-and-Back,37479/Slidesh…
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Huckster 6/29/2013 3:27pm
6/29/2013 3:27pm
ok, so Jimmy goes over and stinks the place out and comes back with his tail between his leg in time for a national at a track that he has spun 1000+ laps on over the course of his lifetime. He proceeds to go 29/13 for 18th overall and you can draw conclusion that the MX2 class in the GP's is equal to the AMA 250 class from that. LOL.....you guys are like the lil brother who never will be able to get out of his bigger brother's shadow but I applaud the spirit....keep up the fight.....
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The Oracle 6/29/2013 3:41pm
6/29/2013 3:41pm
Huckster wrote:
ok, so Jimmy goes over and stinks the place out and comes back with his tail between his leg in time for a national at a...
ok, so Jimmy goes over and stinks the place out and comes back with his tail between his leg in time for a national at a track that he has spun 1000+ laps on over the course of his lifetime. He proceeds to go 29/13 for 18th overall and you can draw conclusion that the MX2 class in the GP's is equal to the AMA 250 class from that. LOL.....you guys are like the lil brother who never will be able to get out of his bigger brother's shadow but I applaud the spirit....keep up the fight.....
I'm not normally into these euroamerica discussions, but keep in mind that his bike blew up last lap in the first heat race.

And bullshit that the 4-strokes are the reason for why the gap is closed. The euro guys are just riding faster and getting better, plain and simple.

I do believe however that the American series has a better depth and over-all level, but I think Cairoli and Herlings would do well over here as well. (not as dominant as in the GPs though.)
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bobby397 6/29/2013 4:11pm
6/29/2013 4:11pm
matthew.hall.23 wrote:
Straight from the horses mouth herlings would smoke everyone in the states he has rode with both
Really? Both Marvin and Kenny has kicked his ass.
Motocross83 6/29/2013 4:37pm
6/29/2013 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 4:39pm
Jimmy said he "thinks" that Jeffrey would win but of course, no one knows for sure. His opinion on the GP/AMA subject has some weight to it due to his direct experience I guess, but again no one knows. My personal guess is that Jeffrey would be very much like Ken - a year getting comfortable and then in the mix for moto wins and overalls. I think that's a reasonable prediction in the invent of a 'JH to the Nationals' scenario. What this Jimmy Decotis business further points to though, is that the series are equal but different. And that it's unsurprising to see a rider struggle somewhat in a new environment.

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jamma10 6/29/2013 4:56pm
6/29/2013 4:56pm
matthew.hall.23 wrote:
Straight from the horses mouth herlings would smoke everyone in the states he has rode with both
bobby397 wrote:
Really? Both Marvin and Kenny has kicked his ass.
People always bring this up.

Herlings started racing GP's in 2010, aged 15. Musquin had about two seasons under his belt by then and Roczen had raced 2/3rds of the prior 2009 season.

Adam Cianciarulo is 16 and a half years old now, do you think he will improve in the next three years?
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500guy 6/29/2013 5:02pm
6/29/2013 5:02pm
The only thing that got Proven was 1 rider from the USA cannot perform outside his comfort zone. Lets be real here too He pulled great starts and threw out an anchor like a guy on a great fishin hole.

USA AMA or GP FIM, They all have great talent, it's the 2 or 3 on both sides of the pond that have that little something extra.

MCDumbass and his " World Championship" talk is absurd.
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slipdog 6/29/2013 5:07pm
6/29/2013 5:07pm
^^^Like Popeye without his can of spinach.

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jamma10 6/29/2013 5:08pm
6/29/2013 5:08pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 5:17pm
500guy wrote:
The only thing that got Proven was 1 rider from the USA cannot perform outside his comfort zone. Lets be real here too He pulled great...
The only thing that got Proven was 1 rider from the USA cannot perform outside his comfort zone. Lets be real here too He pulled great starts and threw out an anchor like a guy on a great fishin hole.

USA AMA or GP FIM, They all have great talent, it's the 2 or 3 on both sides of the pond that have that little something extra.

MCDumbass and his " World Championship" talk is absurd.
Threw an anchor? He could have gone 11/13 if his motor hadn't blown up in the first race. Pretty respectable I thought.
SlowOldGuy 6/29/2013 5:38pm
6/29/2013 5:38pm
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here in our series. The Euros have some of their best guys and none of our best guys.
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bobby397 6/29/2013 5:46pm
6/29/2013 5:46pm
matthew.hall.23 wrote:
Straight from the horses mouth herlings would smoke everyone in the states he has rode with both
bobby397 wrote:
Really? Both Marvin and Kenny has kicked his ass.
jamma10 wrote:
People always bring this up. Herlings started racing GP's in 2010, aged 15. Musquin had about two seasons under his belt by then and Roczen had...
People always bring this up.

Herlings started racing GP's in 2010, aged 15. Musquin had about two seasons under his belt by then and Roczen had raced 2/3rds of the prior 2009 season.

Adam Cianciarulo is 16 and a half years old now, do you think he will improve in the next three years?
Read my very first post. Very few could/can race in different cultures and be successful, but who is to say that if both Marvin and Kenny and stayed in the gps that Jeffery would kick their ass every race? Jeffery is a bad ass no doubt, but I'd doubt he'd do any different than lets say Kenny giving he's in his "natural environment". I'd say the same if rv or dungey completed in an entire series in the gps.
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bobby397 6/29/2013 5:47pm
6/29/2013 5:47pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here...
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here in our series. The Euros have some of their best guys and none of our best guys.
Makes sense.
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jamma10 6/29/2013 5:55pm
6/29/2013 5:55pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 5:58pm
bobby397 wrote:
Really? Both Marvin and Kenny has kicked his ass.
jamma10 wrote:
People always bring this up. Herlings started racing GP's in 2010, aged 15. Musquin had about two seasons under his belt by then and Roczen had...
People always bring this up.

Herlings started racing GP's in 2010, aged 15. Musquin had about two seasons under his belt by then and Roczen had raced 2/3rds of the prior 2009 season.

Adam Cianciarulo is 16 and a half years old now, do you think he will improve in the next three years?
bobby397 wrote:
Read my very first post. Very few could/can race in different cultures and be successful, but who is to say that if both Marvin and Kenny...
Read my very first post. Very few could/can race in different cultures and be successful, but who is to say that if both Marvin and Kenny and stayed in the gps that Jeffery would kick their ass every race? Jeffery is a bad ass no doubt, but I'd doubt he'd do any different than lets say Kenny giving he's in his "natural environment". I'd say the same if rv or dungey completed in an entire series in the gps.
Well he's beaten both Roczen and Musquin at the last two MXdNs, albeit on a 350.

I don't happen to think he would 'kick' anyones asses necessarily, I do think he would trade wins with Tomac, Roczen & Baggett etc though, just as I said in another thread. Its just that whenever a GP fan sings his praises another person always points to Roczen and Musquin in 2010 & 2011 and Herlings has come on since then. He only lost the 2011 title to Roczen by something like 19 points.
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DownSouth 6/29/2013 6:06pm
6/29/2013 6:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 6:12pm
jamma10 wrote:
Well he's beaten both Roczen and Musquin at the last two MXdNs, albeit on a 350. I don't happen to think he would 'kick' anyones asses...
Well he's beaten both Roczen and Musquin at the last two MXdNs, albeit on a 350.

I don't happen to think he would 'kick' anyones asses necessarily, I do think he would trade wins with Tomac, Roczen & Baggett etc though, just as I said in another thread. Its just that whenever a GP fan sings his praises another person always points to Roczen and Musquin in 2010 & 2011 and Herlings has come on since then. He only lost the 2011 title to Roczen by something like 19 points.
I thought Roczen wrapped up the 2011 title early and then raced a 125 at the last event.

Google says Roczen did wrap it up early. He went 5-DNF on the 125 and Herlings closed the final gap to 19.
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DonM 6/29/2013 6:42pm
6/29/2013 6:42pm
jamma10 wrote:
People always bring this up. Herlings started racing GP's in 2010, aged 15. Musquin had about two seasons under his belt by then and Roczen had...
People always bring this up.

Herlings started racing GP's in 2010, aged 15. Musquin had about two seasons under his belt by then and Roczen had raced 2/3rds of the prior 2009 season.

Adam Cianciarulo is 16 and a half years old now, do you think he will improve in the next three years?
bobby397 wrote:
Read my very first post. Very few could/can race in different cultures and be successful, but who is to say that if both Marvin and Kenny...
Read my very first post. Very few could/can race in different cultures and be successful, but who is to say that if both Marvin and Kenny and stayed in the gps that Jeffery would kick their ass every race? Jeffery is a bad ass no doubt, but I'd doubt he'd do any different than lets say Kenny giving he's in his "natural environment". I'd say the same if rv or dungey completed in an entire series in the gps.
jamma10 wrote:
Well he's beaten both Roczen and Musquin at the last two MXdNs, albeit on a 350. I don't happen to think he would 'kick' anyones asses...
Well he's beaten both Roczen and Musquin at the last two MXdNs, albeit on a 350.

I don't happen to think he would 'kick' anyones asses necessarily, I do think he would trade wins with Tomac, Roczen & Baggett etc though, just as I said in another thread. Its just that whenever a GP fan sings his praises another person always points to Roczen and Musquin in 2010 & 2011 and Herlings has come on since then. He only lost the 2011 title to Roczen by something like 19 points.
Nope, he didn't beat Roczen, Germany won, last I checked the MXDN is a team race. With that said Herlings would sure as hell find better competition in the US and could win...just not every race.
And to use this race to measure how fast or slow anyone is by Jimmy D's performance is as ridiculous as expecting the USA to dominate at Lommel.
TripleDigit 6/29/2013 7:01pm
6/29/2013 7:01pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here...
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here in our series. The Euros have some of their best guys and none of our best guys.
bobby397 wrote:
Makes sense.
Thats not entirely the issue,Jimmy D pretty near holeshot both Motos and ran strong today,without the bike going bang he was on for 11th and 13th which is extremely respectable in a really strong series after struggling over here,it goes to show that taking on the other championship is way harder than people think,like many people,he didn't realise how fast the GP guys in what theyre all used to,same with the US boys in the Nationals,the two things are so diferrent,big respect for Jimmy doing it,im a fan for sureSmile

The US guys have to be at an advantage when riders come over into the AMA series from their own GP championship and go up against them,it stands to reason,

Roczen and Marvin did great here,then go over and run upfront there too,Herlings wouldn't be any different,Tomac and Baggett would do great over here,they'd all need to adust and get to grips with things though,maybe one day a top rider will come and take it on
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bobby397 6/29/2013 7:19pm
6/29/2013 7:19pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here...
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here in our series. The Euros have some of their best guys and none of our best guys.
bobby397 wrote:
Makes sense.
TripleDigit wrote:
Thats not entirely the issue,Jimmy D pretty near holeshot both Motos and ran strong today,without the bike going bang he was on for 11th and 13th...
Thats not entirely the issue,Jimmy D pretty near holeshot both Motos and ran strong today,without the bike going bang he was on for 11th and 13th which is extremely respectable in a really strong series after struggling over here,it goes to show that taking on the other championship is way harder than people think,like many people,he didn't realise how fast the GP guys in what theyre all used to,same with the US boys in the Nationals,the two things are so diferrent,big respect for Jimmy doing it,im a fan for sureSmile

The US guys have to be at an advantage when riders come over into the AMA series from their own GP championship and go up against them,it stands to reason,

Roczen and Marvin did great here,then go over and run upfront there too,Herlings wouldn't be any different,Tomac and Baggett would do great over here,they'd all need to adust and get to grips with things though,maybe one day a top rider will come and take it on
Remember, this was Jimmy's local track and he was still a 10-20th place guy

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