The Truth Stark is Hiding

Beagle
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Toulouse FR
5/15/2024 3:30am
Bearuno wrote:
Well philG, of the 5 - well it will be 6 as of tomorrow - that my mates have bought, 4 have been raced - the...

Well philG, of the 5 - well it will be 6 as of tomorrow - that my mates have bought, 4 have been raced - the one I've use of, the only one Not so far, as I'm stored in cotton wool before an operation. Apparently, if I've even a scratch, or a Mozzie bite on my leg the day of the Op, they cancel it - WTF? *Yes, I know it's about infection risks, but I'm never  without at least a few chunks out of my shins, as I'm a clumsy bloody Bear : I'm so f**ked if they are serious ........

So, they can / are being bought, and are being raced, in a fair few places Worldwide.

As for the OP - the "Ordeal" he's suffered? Doesn't mention that he ever even put a deposit on one. 

And there are Vargs available at a CA dealer less than 1h drive from OP Grinning

philG
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5/15/2024 3:56am

The point is, that by just 'building it', and not ensuring that they have a legitimate way to sell it where they need to, and getting an agreement from the governing bodies that it can be used for racing, from a 'rules' and 'operational safety' point of view, they have dropped the ball before they even picked it up.

I know 3 people who have them, 2 cant race them as they wont last, and the other guy who won one has not used it yet.

 

2
3
snillum
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Greer, SC US
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5/15/2024 5:07am
nrosso391 wrote:

Bro...stop running Chat GPT for a simple sentence.

He “delved” into those doc fees… I’ll just leave this here.    

He “delved” into those doc fees… I’ll just leave this here.

 

 

Now that actually made me laugh out loud. 

On a side note, I'm building an electric bike because I can't afford a Stark. Wish I could have one though...

1

The Shop

5/15/2024 5:37am
LungButter wrote:
I can't believe you'd even let him take it on a track with other people given how absolutely dangerous it is to mix ICE bikes with...

I can't believe you'd even let him take it on a track with other people given how absolutely dangerous it is to mix ICE bikes with Electric Bikes.....

He's 28 years old, I'm way past the point of telling him what he can, and can't do  LOL

1
5/15/2024 6:00am
AMA rules are controlled by the AMA's OEM business members... Triump and Ducati, along with the other OEMs can stop Stark competing in AMA sanctioned events...

AMA rules are controlled by the AMA's OEM business members...

Triump and Ducati, along with the other OEMs can stop Stark competing in AMA sanctioned events, ensuring they have a market for their products.

Honda doesn't think EV's are dying

image-20240515104302-1

image-20240515104758-2

As the person in charge of the amateur rulebook I can tell you this is not even close to being true.  The amateur rule changes are proposed, debated, and passed by the AMA Commissions.  Non of the AMA commissions have any OEM representation and the OEM Business members have no voting or approval authority.  I have been a member of AMA motocross commission (formerly AMA congress) including many years as chairman, for over 20 years and a direct employee for 5 years.  I have never had an OEM Business member try to influence any of the rules.  In fact, other than the amateur race team managers it is extremely rare that I deal with any of the OEMs on any level.  The exception being when technical service bulletins are issued.  

Pro racing is its own entity, the comments above reflect only the Amateur rule making process.

2
1
MXATC
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5/15/2024 6:01am

After reading this......

Sephiroth vs Perfect Cell - Battles - Comic Vine

1
Silas444
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5/15/2024 6:34am
nrosso391 wrote:
Let me ask the Stark Diehard's in here:  Why would Triumph and Ducati enter the Motocross genre with ICE bikes now if "EV's are the Future"...

Let me ask the Stark Diehard's in here:  Why would Triumph and Ducati enter the Motocross genre with ICE bikes now if "EV's are the Future"? I'll tell you why. Because the companies know EV's are dying before they even started. And once the people stop buying the highly unavailable E-bikes, They'll revert back to Fire breathing engines and look for something new like a Triumph or Ducati. They know E-bikes are dead and are showing up to pick up sales when they inevitably fail.

....... And so, what do you think is happening over at Ducati and Triumph (or any of the other OEMs for that matter) when they see the fast-growing number of glowing reviews of Stark Varg actual owners? Not the actual haters, the actual owners? Moreover, do you think they haven't noticed that their actual owners tend to have enviable financial means? 

You can possibly believe those companies are that goddam dumb, can you?

There's a very simple reason why the Varg is alone out there in the E-moto marketplace right now: it is such an amazing bike it's proving hard to develop one that's better. Surely, even you know that's why Honda hasn't released theirs, right? Over time, though, competitors will come into the market, and as they do, the crowd of buyers will inevitably thicken. You and the other four mad-hatted luddites on here can fantasize about the failure of E-bikes all you want, it won't change the fact that it's a fantasy.

They're coming. Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

 

4
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early
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5/15/2024 6:47am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
As the person in charge of the amateur rulebook I can tell you this is not even close to being true.  The amateur rule changes are...

As the person in charge of the amateur rulebook I can tell you this is not even close to being true.  The amateur rule changes are proposed, debated, and passed by the AMA Commissions.  Non of the AMA commissions have any OEM representation and the OEM Business members have no voting or approval authority.  I have been a member of AMA motocross commission (formerly AMA congress) including many years as chairman, for over 20 years and a direct employee for 5 years.  I have never had an OEM Business member try to influence any of the rules.  In fact, other than the amateur race team managers it is extremely rare that I deal with any of the OEMs on any level.  The exception being when technical service bulletins are issued.  

Pro racing is its own entity, the comments above reflect only the Amateur rule making process.

Will we ever see any insight into why the 2024 rulebook was released with a provision to allow electric motorcycles to race through event supplemental rules, but later a supplemental rule was released banning electric motorcycles from all events outside the mini-E class?

1
5/15/2024 7:31am
face biter wrote:
Congratulations? I’ll agree that it was a bit of a roller coaster ride between ordering in Dec 2021 and taking delivery of my bike in Feb...

Congratulations?

I’ll agree that it was a bit of a roller coaster ride between ordering in Dec 2021 and taking delivery of my bike in Feb 2024, but some things are worth a little extra patience, etc and IMO this bike is one of those things. 

If you straight up buy through a dealership there will always be fees unless you have a “ connection “ of some sort that helps you avoid that, there will always be a number of technical and customer support issues with any brand, model, or dealership for some customers day in , day out, year after year, it’s just something you work through and move on from. 
 

As an owner of one of these bikes I will give you my opinion on a few things, some of them will be included in the pros and cons…

** the following is just like, my opinion, man**. 🙂
 

Pros:  The bike is incredibly smooth, fit and finish, machine work, etc are top notch, and it is a lot of fun to ride. 
           It is nice to be able to choose basic HP settings and regenerative braking options and set up to 5 individual maps of those. ( I set one on mine just to load the bike in the truck, it’s nice to have the bike pull its weight up the ramp ). There is an update in the works that will be subscription based and will allow you to change more of the parameters than are currently available, kind of like an ECU programmed to your specs. 
            For a medium to short individual like myself 5’8” tall the ergonomics are great! I can’t speak for taller people on that, though. 
            Technical support from the manufacturer seems to be reasonable ( this includes an online manual as well as video tutorials, along with one on one communications, remote access and troubleshooting of bike issues ) and getting better on a monthly basis. 
            The fact that the company ( for now ) is concentrating on keeping all bikes up to date and current vs just the latest bikes off of the assembly line without extra cost to the buyers is pretty cool ( this helps ease some of the teething pains that inevitably pop up when a new product is introduced to the wild, no matter how much testing you do in a controlled environment there are just some things that won’t be an issue until you put something in the hands of the buyers). 

Maintenance so far has been pretty easy, although I will say that if you get one before they’ve addressed the oil drain plug torque and/or material quality issues it would be in your best interest to have a new one standing by as a lot of people ( myself included have had to replace the drain plug on the first oil change).

Tire tubes, incredibly light weight!

Parts orders to the US are pretty quick  

cons: 

It is a heavy lump when moving it around in the garage, lifting it on and off the stand, etc.  the rolling resistance from the motor is enough that it would really suck if you had an issue that caused you to have to push it more than a couple hundred yards. 
 

Stark could do a much better job of informing bike owners of the latest software versions ( seriously, a link on their website with the latest info and release dates, as well as a schedule and breakdown of future updates and associated changes would clear up a lot of questions and save CS quite a few emails and phone calls. 
as it is they kind of work on a “ just ride the bike and when it detects an update it will tell you to do so, and will not give you a readout of the update progress while doing so ). 
 

The initial throttle pull is pretty big ( especially on lower HP settings ) to get a good response, and there is no clutch to help, so the only option is more throttle, there is currently no means from stark to change to a quicker onset of power or shorten overall pull from 0 to 100% power(  it is a fairly big pull) , the  ramp up beyond the initial pull is great! When they do get around to the update that will allow owners to change these things it will be subscription based, so instead of an ECU you’ll be buying a subscription, or maybe they’ll make a one time purchase option in line with the cost of buying an aftermarket ECU?

The plastics are super glossy and scratch up easily, but a quick pass from a heat gun should help dress it out from time to time. 

Tire tubes, not very durable! 🤣

If you live in the US the wiring standards for the charger may confuse you because they are not wired how you may be expecting  ( electric dirt riders has a relevant link to this as well as info and a materials list to wire up your own 110 plug in the US ) <— thanks to Alta owners for the help on that one! 👍

All of the dealerships are new to the bike and many are not aware ( until after the new owner leaves with it ) of the fact that they need to electronically transfer ownership of the bike ( through the APP ) to the new owner once they take delivery, maybe stark could package a dealer set up and delivery training course for them. 
 
Having said this the lists are not all inclusive, and not everyone would be happy with the bike even if they didn’t have any CS or technical issues with it, but I am 100% happy to have mine!

 

NO RAGRETS

Thumbs up for The Big Lebowski reference. Best part of this thread . . .

Moto520
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Schaumburg, IL US
5/15/2024 7:34am Edited Date/Time 5/15/2024 7:53am

They do ride pretty great.  They may have rushed to market before having all their ducks in a row but the product that they put out, taking all the other bullshit out of the equation, is very good on the track.   I don't want to have to race against them because they are quick.  I don't want to have to buy one to compete because $12,000.  I do think that i would be faster after a few weeks of riding one of these.   So....as a hardcore moto guy....i just don't want to have to deal with buying one just to be faster until everything gets ironed out.  Who knows if they are going to hold their value or what....

2
SonofThor32
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Corryton, TN US
5/15/2024 7:57am
Silas444 wrote:
....... And so, what do you think is happening over at Ducati and Triumph (or any of the other OEMs for that matter) when they see...

....... And so, what do you think is happening over at Ducati and Triumph (or any of the other OEMs for that matter) when they see the fast-growing number of glowing reviews of Stark Varg actual owners? Not the actual haters, the actual owners? Moreover, do you think they haven't noticed that their actual owners tend to have enviable financial means? 

You can possibly believe those companies are that goddam dumb, can you?

There's a very simple reason why the Varg is alone out there in the E-moto marketplace right now: it is such an amazing bike it's proving hard to develop one that's better. Surely, even you know that's why Honda hasn't released theirs, right? Over time, though, competitors will come into the market, and as they do, the crowd of buyers will inevitably thicken. You and the other four mad-hatted luddites on here can fantasize about the failure of E-bikes all you want, it won't change the fact that it's a fantasy.

They're coming. Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

 

By your logic, Stark-Varg should be afraid, VERY afraid.  Those OEMs are just sitting there learning, and will without doubt, build a superior machine if/when they wish.  All of this, assuming ACTUAL customer demand ends up being more than what it was for Alta.  At the moment, everyone thinks they are cool and fun - no doubt, but that does not mean everyone is rushing out to buy one.  A snapshot of the current electric car sales just might be an indicator that the few that want them, buy them, but the majority do not and manufacturers are learning fast enough to see we are not flipping a switch here like many tried to portray, and are realizing bad business decisions were made.  They (OEMs) are going to let Alta have some fun, and if the gates are even 1/4 full of Stark bikes at amateur races, it will no doubt be a sign, at which point, the OEMs will crush Stark with a better and more affordable machine.  When that time comes, I will buy one too.

I am not anti-electric, it has done marvels for RC racing (largely due to battery tech), I even believe in the rock crawling world, electric could be HUGE in that scenario.  BUT, I am also a patient realist.

1
inflammable
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5/15/2024 8:01am

If you look closely at the grainy film footage, it looks like there is a Stark Varg behind the grassy knoll. 

3
LungButter
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Yellow Pine, ID US
5/15/2024 8:13am
philG wrote:
The point is, that by just 'building it', and not ensuring that they have a legitimate way to sell it where they need to, and getting...

The point is, that by just 'building it', and not ensuring that they have a legitimate way to sell it where they need to, and getting an agreement from the governing bodies that it can be used for racing, from a 'rules' and 'operational safety' point of view, they have dropped the ball before they even picked it up.

I know 3 people who have them, 2 cant race them as they wont last, and the other guy who won one has not used it yet.

 

How were they supposed to predict that governing bodies who had previously allowed e-bikes to race would change the rules once they came to market with a competitive machine?

 

5
1
Dave v3.0
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5/15/2024 8:48am
philG wrote:
The point is, that by just 'building it', and not ensuring that they have a legitimate way to sell it where they need to, and getting...

The point is, that by just 'building it', and not ensuring that they have a legitimate way to sell it where they need to, and getting an agreement from the governing bodies that it can be used for racing, from a 'rules' and 'operational safety' point of view, they have dropped the ball before they even picked it up.

I know 3 people who have them, 2 cant race them as they wont last, and the other guy who won one has not used it yet.

 

LungButter wrote:
How were they supposed to predict that governing bodies who had previously allowed e-bikes to race would change the rules once they came to market with...

How were they supposed to predict that governing bodies who had previously allowed e-bikes to race would change the rules once they came to market with a competitive machine?

 

Because the AMA has been consistently inconsistent since at least the 1970's when they finally decided this "motocross thing" might catch on.Laughing

You should have known.

1
Dimblewambie
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5/15/2024 10:48am
Bearuno wrote:
Well philG, of the 5 - well it will be 6 as of tomorrow - that my mates have bought, 4 have been raced - the...

Well philG, of the 5 - well it will be 6 as of tomorrow - that my mates have bought, 4 have been raced - the one I've use of, the only one Not so far, as I'm stored in cotton wool before an operation. Apparently, if I've even a scratch, or a Mozzie bite on my leg the day of the Op, they cancel it - WTF? *Yes, I know it's about infection risks, but I'm never  without at least a few chunks out of my shins, as I'm a clumsy bloody Bear : I'm so f**ked if they are serious ........

So, they can / are being bought, and are being raced, in a fair few places Worldwide.

As for the OP - the "Ordeal" he's suffered? Doesn't mention that he ever even put a deposit on one. 

Beagle wrote:
And there are Vargs available at a CA dealer less than 1h drive from OP 

And there are Vargs available at a CA dealer less than 1h drive from OP Grinning

As a consolation for waiting 2.5yrs from your pre order, please proceed to the local dealer so you can pay 3,000 over your quoted price. 
we’re also coming up on 1yr from my phone call from the stark rep “confirming” my order. LOL 

5
7eleven
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Aliso Viejo, CA US
5/15/2024 10:51am

If there is anyone in the DFW, TX area wanting to ride a Varg. Stark has given River Valley MX 2 demo bikes. These are 100% for the public to try. 

I’d say that’s a pretty solid move by any manufacturer. Stoked on Stark for creating the opportunity for the locals. Let the Varg sell itself. 

4
TeamGreen
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5/15/2024 11:25am

TeamGreen wrote:
I’m not your Buddy, Guy! 

I’m not your Buddy, Guy! Laughing

1911 wrote:

A truly original artist that’s had such an amazing affect on allllll sorts of musicians and their music. 

That is an awesome post. Thanks for that. 👍🏼

1
lumpy790
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York, SC US
5/15/2024 11:35am

We all It’s coming but question is when.

In Vet age classes where any motorcycle over 122cc are legal the Varg should also be allowed. If I showed up on a CR500 smoker it would be legal in all classes over 250cc and the vet classes.

What about those new 500 cylinders you can bolt on the 450 bottom ends? Are they legal?

 

1
5/15/2024 4:37pm
Silas444 wrote:
....... And so, what do you think is happening over at Ducati and Triumph (or any of the other OEMs for that matter) when they see...

....... And so, what do you think is happening over at Ducati and Triumph (or any of the other OEMs for that matter) when they see the fast-growing number of glowing reviews of Stark Varg actual owners? Not the actual haters, the actual owners? Moreover, do you think they haven't noticed that their actual owners tend to have enviable financial means? 

You can possibly believe those companies are that goddam dumb, can you?

There's a very simple reason why the Varg is alone out there in the E-moto marketplace right now: it is such an amazing bike it's proving hard to develop one that's better. Surely, even you know that's why Honda hasn't released theirs, right? Over time, though, competitors will come into the market, and as they do, the crowd of buyers will inevitably thicken. You and the other four mad-hatted luddites on here can fantasize about the failure of E-bikes all you want, it won't change the fact that it's a fantasy.

They're coming. Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

 

By your logic, Stark-Varg should be afraid, VERY afraid.  Those OEMs are just sitting there learning, and will without doubt, build a superior machine if/when they...

By your logic, Stark-Varg should be afraid, VERY afraid.  Those OEMs are just sitting there learning, and will without doubt, build a superior machine if/when they wish.  All of this, assuming ACTUAL customer demand ends up being more than what it was for Alta.  At the moment, everyone thinks they are cool and fun - no doubt, but that does not mean everyone is rushing out to buy one.  A snapshot of the current electric car sales just might be an indicator that the few that want them, buy them, but the majority do not and manufacturers are learning fast enough to see we are not flipping a switch here like many tried to portray, and are realizing bad business decisions were made.  They (OEMs) are going to let Alta have some fun, and if the gates are even 1/4 full of Stark bikes at amateur races, it will no doubt be a sign, at which point, the OEMs will crush Stark with a better and more affordable machine.  When that time comes, I will buy one too.

I am not anti-electric, it has done marvels for RC racing (largely due to battery tech), I even believe in the rock crawling world, electric could be HUGE in that scenario.  BUT, I am also a patient realist.

"if the gates are even 1/4 full of Stark bikes at amateur races, it will no doubt be a sign"

Not going to happen, the AMA will not let them compete at amateur races.

Fog 25
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5/15/2024 4:42pm
AMA rules are controlled by the AMA's OEM business members... Triump and Ducati, along with the other OEMs can stop Stark competing in AMA sanctioned events...

AMA rules are controlled by the AMA's OEM business members...

Triump and Ducati, along with the other OEMs can stop Stark competing in AMA sanctioned events, ensuring they have a market for their products.

Honda doesn't think EV's are dying

image-20240515104302-1

image-20240515104758-2

SlowOldGuy wrote:
As the person in charge of the amateur rulebook I can tell you this is not even close to being true.  The amateur rule changes are...

As the person in charge of the amateur rulebook I can tell you this is not even close to being true.  The amateur rule changes are proposed, debated, and passed by the AMA Commissions.  Non of the AMA commissions have any OEM representation and the OEM Business members have no voting or approval authority.  I have been a member of AMA motocross commission (formerly AMA congress) including many years as chairman, for over 20 years and a direct employee for 5 years.  I have never had an OEM Business member try to influence any of the rules.  In fact, other than the amateur race team managers it is extremely rare that I deal with any of the OEMs on any level.  The exception being when technical service bulletins are issued.  

Pro racing is its own entity, the comments above reflect only the Amateur rule making process.

SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of this year, they’ll never receive another dollar from me. 

5/15/2024 6:53pm
Fog 25 wrote:
SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of...

SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of this year, they’ll never receive another dollar from me. 

You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for supplemental rules for their races for things that are not in the AMA rulebook.  

5/15/2024 7:11pm
Fog 25 wrote:
SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of...

SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of this year, they’ll never receive another dollar from me. 

SlowOldGuy wrote:
You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for...

You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for supplemental rules for their races for things that are not in the AMA rulebook.  

Good point, MXSports is the organization preventing E bikes competing in amateur events.

early
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5/15/2024 7:18pm
Fog 25 wrote:
SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of...

SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of this year, they’ll never receive another dollar from me. 

SlowOldGuy wrote:
You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for...

You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for supplemental rules for their races for things that are not in the AMA rulebook.  

So are these supplemental rules only for Loretta lynn qualifiers and the championship race? Is a Stark Varg legal to race in the specified classes at an AMA sanctioned race if the event promoter petitions the AMA for supplemental race rules allowing them? There's been alot of mixed messages from its legal down to you can't even ride it at a practice day at an AMA affiliated track. 

https://mxsports.com/supplemental-rules

Electromoran
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Edinboro , PA US
5/15/2024 7:34pm
For example- I believe the Viva Ohio series has supplemental AMA rules. The Stark is legal in vet and open classes. I'll be racing mine while my 350 is in the trailer.
5/15/2024 7:44pm
Fog 25 wrote:
SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of...

SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of this year, they’ll never receive another dollar from me. 

SlowOldGuy wrote:
You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for...

You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for supplemental rules for their races for things that are not in the AMA rulebook.  

early wrote:
So are these supplemental rules only for Loretta lynn qualifiers and the championship race? Is a Stark Varg legal to race in the specified classes at...

So are these supplemental rules only for Loretta lynn qualifiers and the championship race? Is a Stark Varg legal to race in the specified classes at an AMA sanctioned race if the event promoter petitions the AMA for supplemental race rules allowing them? There's been alot of mixed messages from its legal down to you can't even ride it at a practice day at an AMA affiliated track. 

https://mxsports.com/supplemental-rules

The AMA rule should be...

2.  Electric Motorcycles

     Electric motorcycles may be ineligible through event supplementary rules.

**Note:  Electric motorcycles will only be eligible to compete in open, non-displacement classes.

1
Fog 25
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5/15/2024 11:13pm
Fog 25 wrote:
SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of...

SlowOldGuy, are you the one that put out the supplement rules of no E Bikes? Started being a member of the AMA in 1969 as of this year, they’ll never receive another dollar from me. 

SlowOldGuy wrote:
You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for...

You guys are a little bit confused as to what supplemental rules are. The AMA does not put out supplemental rules. Promoters ask for approval for supplemental rules for their races for things that are not in the AMA rulebook.  

Yeah I can see why I’m confused when I look at the supplemental rules 2024 AMA Rules book. 

wardy
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US
5/16/2024 5:30am

it's all being done in back rooms and by the people who run the sport. lol nothing new here.  this guy with 4 posts is now bad mouthing another new vision a company has the stark is simply an option. no different then any other dirt bike out there with damn near the same price tag.

quietly surron is selling as a few dealerships around the country 100 machines a month.  so i have heard.

what has to happen is this.   stark has to be able to weather the chit storm now that people are riding them and see how they work.  oem's are going to try to kill it with all their power just like they over ran the smokers not to long ago.  alta wasn't strong enough, maybe stark will be.  

OEM's better figure out the issue they will have. not many new riders will in 2024 will see the value in a  8k play bike with valves and all the rest when they can buy an 8k electric and ride it more places less work and have fun.   

an no we don't own a stark and i have never rode one.  but in my business i want to see more riders, it's another avenue for them to enjoy the sport of riding with a bunch less sound.

so we waited a long time to see what a stark can do.  now that it's out, the oem's are pulling out no stops to block.  seen it before here we are again.  

 

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