thank you Eli Tomac for speaking up!

stewie94
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yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp & basically he said  taking the dragon backs out & limiting the whoops your taking away obstacles tht separate the elite dudes of the sport! so thank u Eli for speaking up 👌🏾🫡

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Tyler D
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4/2/2024 7:49pm

Inb4 "yah but I bet you couldn't do a dragons back either so your opinion isn't valid"

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SoCalMX70
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4/2/2024 8:05pm

I tell people this shit all the time about track designs from 20+ years ago, but here we go again... Literally just watched a random clip of Anaheim 1 from 2000 and saw a lot whoops (much smaller in this instance, but they changed in size about every round!), a lot of dirt, big peaky/technical sections, and a pretty gnarly dragons back before a triple. 

Stop cheaping out on dirt, Feld! Let's get back to creative and technical designs.

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tomlopez
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4/2/2024 8:09pm

Agreed.

Also, the portion on his reply tweet to Zach O was absolutely hilarious.

19

The Shop

yak651
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4/2/2024 8:11pm

I like seeing guys do the unthinkable, but it is also nice that the leaders aren’t lapping into the top 10. Easier tracks do give more people a chance at running up front

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dog_lover_136
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4/2/2024 8:11pm
tomlopez wrote:

Agreed.

Also, the portion on his reply tweet to Zach O was absolutely hilarious.

That was funny. The whole interview was funny and really good. 

9
Oldstyle
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4/2/2024 8:22pm
tomlopez wrote:

Agreed.

Also, the portion on his reply tweet to Zach O was absolutely hilarious.

Haha What did he say? (I haven’t had a chance to listen yet)

Oldstyle
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4/2/2024 8:24pm
yak651 wrote:
I like seeing guys do the unthinkable, but it is also nice that the leaders aren’t lapping into the top 10. Easier tracks do give more...

I like seeing guys do the unthinkable, but it is also nice that the leaders aren’t lapping into the top 10. Easier tracks do give more people a chance at running up front

That’s true but I also think that makes getting a good start all the more important. It’s awesome to watch these guys go beast mode and really have an opportunity to make up some Big time bc they are doing sections differently than the pack.  Not sure if it’s a track design problem or 4 stroke problem 🤷‍♂️

tomlopez
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4/2/2024 8:41pm
tomlopez wrote:

Agreed.

Also, the portion on his reply tweet to Zach O was absolutely hilarious.

Oldstyle wrote:

Haha What did he say? (I haven’t had a chance to listen yet)

The crew were just joking about how he came back from "twitter retirement', hadn't tweeted in 3 years, and open up the app and see him firing back at Zach. Eli was saying how he was out driving a tractor around pushing a haybale or something, took a break and hopped on Twitter, saw Zach's comment and just decided to give his two cents.

15
Oldstyle
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4/2/2024 8:59pm
tomlopez wrote:

Agreed.

Also, the portion on his reply tweet to Zach O was absolutely hilarious.

Oldstyle wrote:

Haha What did he say? (I haven’t had a chance to listen yet)

tomlopez wrote:
The crew were just joking about how he came back from "twitter retirement', hadn't tweeted in 3 years, and open up the app and see him...

The crew were just joking about how he came back from "twitter retirement', hadn't tweeted in 3 years, and open up the app and see him firing back at Zach. Eli was saying how he was out driving a tractor around pushing a haybale or something, took a break and hopped on Twitter, saw Zach's comment and just decided to give his two cents.

Haha that’s awesome, thanks 

Magoofan
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4/2/2024 9:00pm

Yeah....but #3 will never win again....

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

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Talon
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4/2/2024 9:03pm
stewie94 wrote:
yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp...

yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp & basically he said  taking the dragon backs out & limiting the whoops your taking away obstacles tht separate the elite dudes of the sport! so thank u Eli for speaking up 👌🏾🫡

Honestly I’m going to have to disagree with you and I’m usually on the same mind set as you. But the tracks this year have been absolutely shit with the ruts and rain. That alone has separated the skilled technical riders I think. They have been basically outdoor tracks in the stadiums. 
 

now if they can find a way to fix this dirt issue and make an actual supercross track then yea.. they need some obstacles that separate 

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nrosso391
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4/3/2024 8:00am
yak651 wrote:
I like seeing guys do the unthinkable, but it is also nice that the leaders aren’t lapping into the top 10. Easier tracks do give more...

I like seeing guys do the unthinkable, but it is also nice that the leaders aren’t lapping into the top 10. Easier tracks do give more people a chance at running up front

You probably voted for participation trophies too..

6
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Spooner
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4/3/2024 8:18am

I agree it hurts the separation but it has helped with injuries it seems.  Having most of the guys healthy this late in the season is pretty rare (knock on wood).  I’m definitely split because I much prefer the big gnarly tracks but I also want to try to keep the boys safe at the same time.  There’s no perfect answer for sure. 

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1
4/3/2024 8:26am
stewie94 wrote:
yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp...

yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp & basically he said  taking the dragon backs out & limiting the whoops your taking away obstacles tht separate the elite dudes of the sport! so thank u Eli for speaking up 👌🏾🫡

Wasn't that the purpose? To bring tighter racing and prevent injuries.   If You have things that allow riders to separate themselves and make up big chunks of time. You have runaway races, lappers sooner in the racer, more issues with lappers since they will be having trouble when being lapped on the "elite" obstacles.

 

We still have the elite guys winning the races, less injuries so far, it has not been a runaway series even with there being 1 rider who is often the fastest rider .

  I agree that the track designs have been kind of stale and recycled. And I would like to see them try and build some new obstacles. I'm glad they are trying some different things, they can always change and try something else if they do not get the result they are looking for.

Who knows, perhaps Eli was giving the answer he knew the fans would want. But is really fine with the tracks. Just like when he has a bike issue and publicly will say everything was fine. If Eli said he had no problem with the tracks how they are, people would claim that "Monster got to him" . But since he gave the answer that the loudest voices wanted to hear, he was being honest about it. And chances are he is being honest about it. But its just funny. 

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KHNC
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4/3/2024 8:33am
yak651 wrote:
I like seeing guys do the unthinkable, but it is also nice that the leaders aren’t lapping into the top 10. Easier tracks do give more...

I like seeing guys do the unthinkable, but it is also nice that the leaders aren’t lapping into the top 10. Easier tracks do give more people a chance at running up front

nrosso391 wrote:

You probably voted for participation trophies too..

I got a bunch of 7-8th place B class plaques in the 90's. But i felt better about them than top 3 in C class every week. Laughing

12
Zycki11
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4/3/2024 9:09am

The whole track thing is a joke. You can provide safe racing by slowing the track down. The fact that they game the tracks down to tighten racing is an atrocity. More dirt, slow the tracks down and they won’t get as gnarly beat up and when the injuries happen they aren’t as severe. 

15
joshd
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4/3/2024 9:13am

Who knew Phil was the best journalist in the sport. That was such a good interview. 

26
dsoll703
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4/3/2024 9:29am
joshd wrote:

Who knew Phil was the best journalist in the sport. That was such a good interview. 

We are lucky to have Phil in the sport. After he retires, I hope he remains active in the sport.

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4/3/2024 9:35am

They say they have "data" but it sounds like nobody has actually seen the data. Seems to me like they cherry-picked the whoops because it's an easy variable. I wonder what the actual sample size is...10 crashes in the past 20 years?

I remember when Webb crashed on the dragons-back, did anyone hear him blame the obstacle? I think even RC said something about "you actually get to control the speed with your right wrist."

Eli nailed it with "this is the top level" and basically saying let the riders decide. Nobody says you have to skim 15 nasty whoops. If that's the difference between winning and losing, then figure it out or don't. Weird. 

The rhythm that got Forkner was WAY sketchier than a set of whoops, and guess what....not everyone was going over that table Forkner crashed on.

This whole track mandate thing sounds a lot like someone justifying their existence by finding something to change and calling it for safety....

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nrosso391
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4/3/2024 9:52am

Meanwhile Eli is riding at home still launching dragonbacks because its a normal obstacle. Build the exact 2003 Pontiac Supercross whoops and wall jump (with lime) on a track for the guys now. I'm betting you'd see a lot of guys struggle with the jump at the end. They don't make the tracks like they used to. Bring back huge whoops that aren't jumpers, dragonbacks and lime.

15
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Falcon
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4/3/2024 10:36am

Bring back long whoop sections. Sand pits. Mud pits. More corners. I want to see something that isn't so cookie-cutter.

Right now, it's like, "We make a 180 into a rhythm section made up of jumps that Vitards argue about whether they are triples or quads, then cross the start stretch into another section made up of jumps that Vitards argue about whether they are triples or quads, then another 180 into a section made up of jumps that Vitards argue about whether they are triples or quads, then a short connector, and finally, to mix it up, we go into a section made up of jumps that Vitards argue about whether they are triples or quads." 

19
toomanykaws
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4/3/2024 11:45am

Phil has the respect of all the riders.  He was on the line when Chase called in few weeks back.  He gets them to talk.  It’s great   

6
enketchum
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4/3/2024 12:50pm

BACK IN MY DAY WHOOPS WERE HARD 
GET OFF MY LAWN 

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aees
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4/3/2024 1:14pm
stewie94 wrote:
yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp...

yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp & basically he said  taking the dragon backs out & limiting the whoops your taking away obstacles tht separate the elite dudes of the sport! so thank u Eli for speaking up 👌🏾🫡

Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how.

The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference? 

Chase all good in whoops, Jett, Anderson, AP, Kenny also. Webb suffers some. Probably identical for dragon backs.

From a audience perspective, it would be worse. More lappers for sure.

In the end, it will be Jett, Eli, Chase, maybe Webb on a beaten up track, that can go the distance at 100% for 20min with more challenging obstacles and stay close. But thats already the case...? 

Tomac or Jett would be able to end up higher in the results if they have poor starts. Last 5-7min most would mail it in more frequently.

I guess, that with that approach we would see Jett, Eli, Chase, Webb more frequently on the podium. So that's the Elite-Elite guys, which we already know.

I think unfortunately from a racing and audience perspective, it's better as is. More guys can end up on podium. Elite-Elite has to fight harder when starts are not there.

3
12
4/3/2024 1:25pm
stewie94 wrote:
yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp...

yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp & basically he said  taking the dragon backs out & limiting the whoops your taking away obstacles tht separate the elite dudes of the sport! so thank u Eli for speaking up 👌🏾🫡

aees wrote:
Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how. The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference?  Chase...

Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how.

The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference? 

Chase all good in whoops, Jett, Anderson, AP, Kenny also. Webb suffers some. Probably identical for dragon backs.

From a audience perspective, it would be worse. More lappers for sure.

In the end, it will be Jett, Eli, Chase, maybe Webb on a beaten up track, that can go the distance at 100% for 20min with more challenging obstacles and stay close. But thats already the case...? 

Tomac or Jett would be able to end up higher in the results if they have poor starts. Last 5-7min most would mail it in more frequently.

I guess, that with that approach we would see Jett, Eli, Chase, Webb more frequently on the podium. So that's the Elite-Elite guys, which we already know.

I think unfortunately from a racing and audience perspective, it's better as is. More guys can end up on podium. Elite-Elite has to fight harder when starts are not there.

Supercross is a SHOW, and the elite of the elite are the draw. Better racing? Sure, maybe some of the time....but I'd take seeing legends of the sport doing legendary things at the front, and a few more guys struggling, than seeing the dude who gets third in the LCQ hit the exact same lines as a guy with 50-something wins. 

For those of you who will argue of course Tomac wants the tracks harder, because HE'S the elite....Phil was saying the same thing. 

These new rules aren't about safety, they are about something else. If it was REALLY about safety, they would have a legitimate rider-representative giving them feedback on EACH track. 

Justin Brayton, maybe? I know Canard did something similar but that fizzled out. 

7
kxking
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4/3/2024 1:26pm
stewie94 wrote:
yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp...

yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp & basically he said  taking the dragon backs out & limiting the whoops your taking away obstacles tht separate the elite dudes of the sport! so thank u Eli for speaking up 👌🏾🫡

aees wrote:
Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how. The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference?  Chase...

Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how.

The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference? 

Chase all good in whoops, Jett, Anderson, AP, Kenny also. Webb suffers some. Probably identical for dragon backs.

From a audience perspective, it would be worse. More lappers for sure.

In the end, it will be Jett, Eli, Chase, maybe Webb on a beaten up track, that can go the distance at 100% for 20min with more challenging obstacles and stay close. But thats already the case...? 

Tomac or Jett would be able to end up higher in the results if they have poor starts. Last 5-7min most would mail it in more frequently.

I guess, that with that approach we would see Jett, Eli, Chase, Webb more frequently on the podium. So that's the Elite-Elite guys, which we already know.

I think unfortunately from a racing and audience perspective, it's better as is. More guys can end up on podium. Elite-Elite has to fight harder when starts are not there.

Well then why not make a flat track and say have at it, that way the guy in section 2 row A can sign up and play. 

Sections only a few can do is what separates the great from the good, whoops too big, slow down. Dragon back to hard, slow down , triple too big, double-single. 

Stewable sections, and creative options is what SX is all about, people pay to see the best of the best do what nobody else can do at speeds nobody else can run. Not just a presession of riders on watered down tracks.

11
1
aees
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4/3/2024 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2024 1:42pm
stewie94 wrote:
yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp...

yes ima beat a dead horse but this shit needs to be said & heard , just got around to listen to Eli’s portion of pulp & basically he said  taking the dragon backs out & limiting the whoops your taking away obstacles tht separate the elite dudes of the sport! so thank u Eli for speaking up 👌🏾🫡

aees wrote:
Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how. The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference?  Chase...

Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how.

The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference? 

Chase all good in whoops, Jett, Anderson, AP, Kenny also. Webb suffers some. Probably identical for dragon backs.

From a audience perspective, it would be worse. More lappers for sure.

In the end, it will be Jett, Eli, Chase, maybe Webb on a beaten up track, that can go the distance at 100% for 20min with more challenging obstacles and stay close. But thats already the case...? 

Tomac or Jett would be able to end up higher in the results if they have poor starts. Last 5-7min most would mail it in more frequently.

I guess, that with that approach we would see Jett, Eli, Chase, Webb more frequently on the podium. So that's the Elite-Elite guys, which we already know.

I think unfortunately from a racing and audience perspective, it's better as is. More guys can end up on podium. Elite-Elite has to fight harder when starts are not there.

kxking wrote:
Well then why not make a flat track and say have at it, that way the guy in section 2 row A can sign up and...

Well then why not make a flat track and say have at it, that way the guy in section 2 row A can sign up and play. 

Sections only a few can do is what separates the great from the good, whoops too big, slow down. Dragon back to hard, slow down , triple too big, double-single. 

Stewable sections, and creative options is what SX is all about, people pay to see the best of the best do what nobody else can do at speeds nobody else can run. Not just a presession of riders on watered down tracks.

Its a balance.

Last week people complained about boring races, Jett checking out. What do you think would happen if the tracks got more difficult? Even more separator.

Suddenly Eli starting 8 is not a problem, he will be on the podium any way but still lose so much time that he can't reach Jett and Chase (or maybe Webb). He will blow by 4-7, and then nothing. He will stop pushing when he notice Jett is 10sec ahead and it can't be gained. 

You can sit there and go wow they went 0.5sec faster through the whoops, or did a quad. After 3 laps it's the new normal and you get bored.

Boring races happens when the riders have to race the track, not each other. Simpler tracks leads to better racing. Simple tracks let's the other riders have a chance to fight Elite-Elite. 

There has only been one rider through out history that could leverage a difficult or special obstacle, and that's Stewart. He had a win or die mentality, and it only took him so far I'm terms of championchips (compared to others) because of injuries and crashes.

None of the racers today have that mentality, they are to smart. You can win a championship in only one race, but you can lose it in 16. That's the new standard.

2
14
kxking
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4/3/2024 2:51pm
aees wrote:
Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how. The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference?  Chase...

Love Eli, big fan of everything he does and how.

The separating of elite athletes, I'm not so sure of. What would be the difference? 

Chase all good in whoops, Jett, Anderson, AP, Kenny also. Webb suffers some. Probably identical for dragon backs.

From a audience perspective, it would be worse. More lappers for sure.

In the end, it will be Jett, Eli, Chase, maybe Webb on a beaten up track, that can go the distance at 100% for 20min with more challenging obstacles and stay close. But thats already the case...? 

Tomac or Jett would be able to end up higher in the results if they have poor starts. Last 5-7min most would mail it in more frequently.

I guess, that with that approach we would see Jett, Eli, Chase, Webb more frequently on the podium. So that's the Elite-Elite guys, which we already know.

I think unfortunately from a racing and audience perspective, it's better as is. More guys can end up on podium. Elite-Elite has to fight harder when starts are not there.

kxking wrote:
Well then why not make a flat track and say have at it, that way the guy in section 2 row A can sign up and...

Well then why not make a flat track and say have at it, that way the guy in section 2 row A can sign up and play. 

Sections only a few can do is what separates the great from the good, whoops too big, slow down. Dragon back to hard, slow down , triple too big, double-single. 

Stewable sections, and creative options is what SX is all about, people pay to see the best of the best do what nobody else can do at speeds nobody else can run. Not just a presession of riders on watered down tracks.

aees wrote:
Its a balance. Last week people complained about boring races, Jett checking out. What do you think would happen if the tracks got more difficult? Even...

Its a balance.

Last week people complained about boring races, Jett checking out. What do you think would happen if the tracks got more difficult? Even more separator.

Suddenly Eli starting 8 is not a problem, he will be on the podium any way but still lose so much time that he can't reach Jett and Chase (or maybe Webb). He will blow by 4-7, and then nothing. He will stop pushing when he notice Jett is 10sec ahead and it can't be gained. 

You can sit there and go wow they went 0.5sec faster through the whoops, or did a quad. After 3 laps it's the new normal and you get bored.

Boring races happens when the riders have to race the track, not each other. Simpler tracks leads to better racing. Simple tracks let's the other riders have a chance to fight Elite-Elite. 

There has only been one rider through out history that could leverage a difficult or special obstacle, and that's Stewart. He had a win or die mentality, and it only took him so far I'm terms of championchips (compared to others) because of injuries and crashes.

None of the racers today have that mentality, they are to smart. You can win a championship in only one race, but you can lose it in 16. That's the new standard.

So penalize the fast guys so the slower guys can compete? 

Next we'll stop keeping score and everyone gets a trophy.

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