Posts
2
Joined
10/6/2023
Location
Royse City , TX
US
When everyone has to race e-bikes in the near future, how are you going to feel about coming off a nice quiet e race, exhausted, hot, maybe frustrated about your finish or sore from a crash, to sit in your chair and try to relax before your next moto only to have the sound off hundreds of Fuel powered generators charging bikes and breathing the exhaust of them all crammed together Everywhere around you. Quiet track/race, extremely noisy hard to breathe pits. 
What’s your thoughts?
Sounds less noisy than tracks are now.
I don't worry about that as much as what will happen with the industry, when all of the engine tuning and aftermarket parts do not have a place anymore. A lot of positives come with electric (less noise and emissions, which is good for places to ride) but just not sure if it will be good when there is way less aftermarket and companies that are involved/investing in the sport.
In my humble opinion
Nobody will "have to" ride an e-bike in the near future.
For those that do, a generator is not the only way to charge a battery. Some will charge off their e-trucks, some with charge off facility electrical hookups and some will charge off their generator. Smart track owners will realize selling electricity is a revenue source and will upgrade their facilities accordingly.
The Shop
when can we go back to Hazing the Noobs ?
I'm sure none of the rv's in that picture are running a generator.
Good point 👍🏼
Would the hop up shops not pivot to EV and still have a 20 year 4 stroke tail like 2 strokes had?
So every kid will ride the same with e-bike racing? No longer a Kenny or Jett who ride in a higher gear vs a Deegan who revs it to the moon. No more Tomac who abuses a clutch vs a Kenny who never uses a clutch. If E-bike racing takes over kids who spent their younger years at the BMX track are going to dominate, the clutch and shifting are one of the hardest parts of transitioning from a BMX to MX. But the sport will not increase in viewership and attendance will drop. Panic revs, whoops, and 20/40 guys on a start add to the excitement, the racing at times for a spectator is actually really boring. Remove all that and just buzzing and no creativity in riding style and no aftermarket support, ya you can kiss the sport goodbye. And btw that battery will die, it happens to your cell phone, your laptop, and your car battery. And when it does, when what happens, where do you take it, do you drop $7k for another? Electric for motocross is a novelty, and works for certain applications like Stacyc around the house, but long term is not sustainable, and not cost-effective. But it's coming and our sport will be going away, sad truth, I hate it, and will just focus on enjoying the current moments.
Pretty sure that the track will be bringing in power to charge the bikes, almost all campgrounds have electricity to each campsite, evolve or die🤷🏼♂️
This. Fox Raceway has already installed some outlets.
You sound a lot like many of the people who have views on current and past dirtbikes. You just twist the throttle and the bike dose everything else............ By just changing to electric the bikes will now ride themselves. No need to have any type of rider input at all.
People said the same about 4 strokes killing the aftermarket. With electric bikes PC,FMF, Yosh, etc. could sell maps. software that would have certain style power delivery.
As far as batteries go, most racers will trade in their bikes before they will need to worry about a battery. And its been gone over before how many hours a battery can have on it before it needs repair of replacement. 100's to thousands of cycles. By the time you add up all of the gas, clutches,pistons,cranks,air filters,oil changes, etc. You will not be far off what a battery will cost. And by the time the Vargs or any bike thats coming out now needs a battery. They will most likely be half the price for an equal replacement, or get twice the power from the new pack. The other option being to repair the battery. Yes there are not many, if any places around doing that right now. But its like back when gas powered vehicles were new. No gas stations or people to fix them back then.
And how about a setup like Turn 14 has in their parking lot at MX tracks for charging. With Grid power as backup. and tracks getting paid for the power made on days they are not open. A group of panels about the size of a Class A RV and trailer could handle charging a single Varg. But a grid connection would provide more than enough power . And there are companies leasing land to put solar farms on them like this already. I imagine that some kind of deal could be worked out so that the track got the panels and charging stations at very little upfront cost. Maybe being paid to have them. Then You have covered pits as an option too.
I doubt that all of the Pros , or all of the Cons of electric MX bikes will either all become reality. With something more along the middle being what happens.
Exactly, another source of money for tracks that is not as difficult to install as putting in a gas station would be. Or as regulated as storing and selling cans of race fuel.
Its a waste of infrastructure upgrade for something that you'll never see a profit from. You'll have to replace the charging stations long before you even break even. EV's are a money pit without government subsidies.
When I hear the argument of having pits full of generators. It makes me wonder if these people have been to a racetrack in the last 60 years. At a national, all you hear in the pits is the hum of generators and pressure washers. When I went to the MXON in 2007 my generator ran for a week. Just like every other rig in the pits and most of the spectators campers. At local races around me its the same. With most racers having either a gas pressure washer or generator,both or an electric pressure washer.
I can't have a serious discussion with someone who thinks battery prices are going down or solar panels at a track are the answer. Or thinking a company like FMF can just transition to software.
Isn't California banning generators and anything that runs a small gas-powered engine? (honest question).
You sound like the people who were afraid of the Horseless carriages. Complaining about having to go to a gas station to fill up, and not having any around. And how expensive it is to build such places with such a small demand and low profit margins. Its funny how things do not exist until there is a demand for them.
Putting in charging stations would also provide a source for people to plug in their RV's so even people with Gas bikes could benefit from them.
Pit Row
This.^ Its so tiring...
Its always the same story too. People that have never ran a business or even a book club are going to tell 30 year business owners how to "adapt or die".
"Just change from everything you have ever known... its super easy and its something you can just "write off right?""
I own an Talaria Sting MX4 and it AMAZING... but it is by no means the answer for rural outdoor moto racing.
They had to transition to 4 strokes from 2 strokes. Many road racing people were hired back then. And mapping is already a thing on 4 strokes. Right now its easier to buy an FMF T-shirt or Umbrella than a pipe. So it seems like FMF is already shifting in a different direction. GET, VORTEX, etc
If I asked You back in the 1990's , if FMF would ever offer performance tunes for MX bikes that were electric, or if they would come out with an energy drink ? What sounds more like something they might be expected to offer?
And I said for a comparable battery, by the time it needs to be replaced. There are already cells that can put out more power than the cells being used on most EV batteries. And Tech items always get less expensive as there are higher production numbers to spread out costs. By the time Vargs are needing new batteries in large numbers there will be more EV's using pouch style cells or other types of cells that have a higher power density.
Why would solar panels not work at a track?? Even if they never used the panels while racing was going on. It would bring a grid connection in that could be used for charging and then send the power out that is made on the many days tracks are not open. And I'm not saying it is THE answer. Its an answer.
There are many companies flooding into the MTB and UTV markets right now from other areas of similar sports. If there is a demand for stuff for things, people will fill that demand.And if the current aftermarket doesn't fill the demand for EMX acce. than You will have tech companies come in to offer items. If you notice VP changed its logo to not have Fuels on it. I would bet that they are working on racing batteries to some degree.
Do you have any idea how many Tracks in the US could afford to install something even remotely like this?
Maybe 0.5% of them. Maybe. There is about half a million dollars in just panels in this photo.
"and tracks getting paid for the power made on days they are not open."
This does not happen. Its a fable. I know a few people that spent BIG money on panels for this exact reason and were promised a nice return. The power company paid them twice. Two whole months. Then they said we will only give you power credits. Then They said you can buy a cheap GOV subsidized car and get a nice rebate and then charge it with those "credits". Then they said you cant sell power anymore. It was and still is a complete scam.
How many tracks will this scam happen too?
Id personally rather them dig a pond and buy a water truck for a better racing surface with that money.
My worthless $0.02
The Surron scene has had a lot of companies pop up to provide mods for those bikes, and that is just for one brand and model (and those are just Chinese toys, not even proper motorcycles).
Technologies in their infancy like e-bikes tend to offer a lot of new business opportunities, as was the case with the original dirt bikes of the '70s. History might repeat itself (to a degree, within reason). Time will tell.
One thing I could see, as an example: when battery tech takes a leap forward, companies offer battery/controller conversion kits (with service/support) for the 1st generation Varg? I doubt Stark will provide this as an option as they will likely want to sell a whole new model to customers. The motor and chassis on the Varg are looking like they will not be a bottleneck on performance for a long time, so I could see there being a market for owners just looking to do a battery upgrade when the time comes.
Gas bikes are not going to just die. There was a change when the industry shifted to 4 strokes.
I'm not saying that anybody has to do anything. Just offering up alternatives to the doom and gloom, and showing the similarity of when gas power first became a thing.
PC sells more 2 stroke pipes now than they did 10 years ago. And they can still keep making ipes for people who want to ride gas bikes. They can hire a software engineer to develop maps. And use the existing ways they test gas powered bikes to test the maps. Its like when they started to make 4 stroke pipes. Mitch didn't just grab some tubes and put a pipe together. He hired some new people.
Its not going to happen in a couple years. There are not enough manufactures offering electric for the change to happen as quickly as it did with 4 strokes. But Dealerships will have to change. Techs at dealers will have to change and evolve. I'm always looking at new materials and ways of doing things we do, and can do with the machines we have or that I want to get. I just assumed that a successful business would also be planning for a changing future if a hack like me is.
So those tracks can just have people run generators . Like they have been doing for the last 20 years for the RV's people have been driving. I'm not saying it is something for every track. I prefer to think of positive things and not just live in the doom and gloom of being afraid of change. Will all of my ideas work everyplace, NO. But I prefer to think of creative ways to fix problems and not just point out problems.
This is the point in the e-bike thread that some ol' boy posts that picture of a strip mine and cries "isn't anybody thinking about the environment?" Go ahead, get it out of the way.
Is that Gatorback in the O.P.'s original post?
I would argue that there will be a bigger number of aftermarket companies that pop up or come from other sectors. If a lot of EMX bikes are being bought. Most people would love to have an MX bike with all the trick cool parts on them. People with Dirtbikes are used to working on them. There will be less that is needed to do to EMX bikes between rides. So people will buy stuff to change the looks or performance in different ways. Look at all the crap You can buy for a cell phone. Or tool boxes.Or just about anything. If there are large numbers of anything being sold, there will be many companies making stuff to customize that item.
No engine mods, no clutch and no pipes. Mapping would be the similar thing for an EMX bike at the start. But motor mods could still be a thing, and as more is learned about how electric and MX mix, there will be more areas for custom stuff. Perhaps moto builders will shift towards building high performance batteries.
EMX bikes will still have many parts that are similar to gas bikes.
And lets not forget that UFO started to make fresh runs of plastic for bikes back into the 80's. Vintco , and company that makes OEM style parts for older bikes was started. there will still be a demand for gas bikes and parts no matter how much better the EMX bikes are. People still enjoy driving Horse and buggies, 1800's cars and motorcycles, etc. That demand may decrease. or might increase if the doom and gloom of electric is true.
The funny part about those takes is that I've never seen anyone say they were buying an e-bike for environmental reasons. Usually it's some combination of noise, reduced maintenance, tunable power, easier to ride, etc. Textbook strawman argument, basically. In my experience, Save-the-planet guy has no (positive) interest in dirt bikes in the first place.
I’ve spent 40yrs coaching and stance was the first thing, on these e bikes I have them looking like Jet first ride and bmx is SO similar, I think if I was young I would have a rider training feature in every city inside a huge shed, no noise complaints or fume costs and for young kids it would be home school after school till parents finished work. It would have the greenies support and manufacturers support for hire bikes even.
You just have a portable battery bank.
Charge at home or Solar etc.
Pretty simple solution besides generators running.
Also, orange extension cord can work to. 🙃
Post a reply to: Opinion on future e-bike racing