MXGP low rider numbers

rym
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7/9/2024 4:16am Edited Date/Time 7/9/2024 4:21am
aees wrote:

Ok, it's still 1000 if you are not a local wildcard entry, then it is 300.

rym wrote:
Again, no it is not. It is 300 euro if you do a wildcard. Source: 3 different riders who all did wildcards in for them foreig...

Again, no it is not. It is 300 euro if you do a wildcard. Source: 3 different riders who all did wildcards in for them foreig gp's this and last year in mx2 and mxgp.  In 2022 it still was 1000 for a wildcard

aees wrote:

That's what I said!? 😂

Afaik nobody pays 1000 per race. Its either become an OAT team for a lump sum (that is not 1000 per race) and commit to all GP's or enter via wildcards.

The advantage of the OAT is that you are secured of a spot and you get significant support for the travel to the overseas Grand Prix. But you have to commit to all. The cost for that is not 1.000 per GP.

1
rym
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7/9/2024 4:19am
rym wrote:
Again, no it is not. It is 300 euro if you do a wildcard. Source: 3 different riders who all did wildcards in for them foreig...

Again, no it is not. It is 300 euro if you do a wildcard. Source: 3 different riders who all did wildcards in for them foreig gp's this and last year in mx2 and mxgp.  In 2022 it still was 1000 for a wildcard

aees wrote:

That's what I said!? 😂

Elliot wrote:

He's a dick.

Thanks

aees
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7/9/2024 4:45am
rym wrote:
Again, no it is not. It is 300 euro if you do a wildcard. Source: 3 different riders who all did wildcards in for them foreig...

Again, no it is not. It is 300 euro if you do a wildcard. Source: 3 different riders who all did wildcards in for them foreig gp's this and last year in mx2 and mxgp.  In 2022 it still was 1000 for a wildcard

aees wrote:

That's what I said!? 😂

rym wrote:
Afaik nobody pays 1000 per race. Its either become an OAT team for a lump sum (that is not 1000 per race) and commit to all...

Afaik nobody pays 1000 per race. Its either become an OAT team for a lump sum (that is not 1000 per race) and commit to all GP's or enter via wildcards.

The advantage of the OAT is that you are secured of a spot and you get significant support for the travel to the overseas Grand Prix. But you have to commit to all. The cost for that is not 1.000 per GP.

It was 1000 per GP two seasons ago. For 2023 they only changed wildcard fees from I have read. 

DeStouwer
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7/9/2024 7:19am Edited Date/Time 7/9/2024 7:21am

How do you grow by going to places (like the USA) that have already held GP’s, that have already had extremely low attendances? People in America know about GP’s and they have repeatedly chosen not to attend them.

The last Indonesian GP in Sumbawa (2022), had more people attend the street parade on Friday, than that were at all of the recent US GP’s combined.

Fans complain about how much it costs to do the GP’s for riders and teams, and then also say they should go to Australia and New Zealand, literally the two most expensive places for all of the teams to go to. Darwin next season will make no difference at all compared to Lombok this season.

There are a lot of things I don't particularly like about the calendar, but they definitely don't get solved all at once by going to America and Australia.

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The Shop

-MAVERICK-
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7/9/2024 8:42am
DeStouwer wrote:

For how many years now? Eventually those rumours lose their credibility.

DC talked about it recently. 

It's not as simple as flying 20 guys over and lining up. 

LungButter
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7/9/2024 9:08am
-MAVERICK- wrote:

DC talked about it recently. 

It's not as simple as flying 20 guys over and lining up. 

Seems like it'd be kinda hard for MXGP to fly over 20 guys that were up to the standard to race the US guys.

8
Rocketship
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7/9/2024 1:14pm
rym wrote:
Again, no it is not. It is 300 euro if you do a wildcard. Source: 3 different riders who all did wildcards in for them foreig...

Again, no it is not. It is 300 euro if you do a wildcard. Source: 3 different riders who all did wildcards in for them foreig gp's this and last year in mx2 and mxgp.  In 2022 it still was 1000 for a wildcard

aees wrote:

That's what I said!? 😂

rym wrote:
Afaik nobody pays 1000 per race. Its either become an OAT team for a lump sum (that is not 1000 per race) and commit to all...

Afaik nobody pays 1000 per race. Its either become an OAT team for a lump sum (that is not 1000 per race) and commit to all GP's or enter via wildcards.

The advantage of the OAT is that you are secured of a spot and you get significant support for the travel to the overseas Grand Prix. But you have to commit to all. The cost for that is not 1.000 per GP.

Exactly, and then you can take all kind of supplements on top of the OAT team status like a dedicated sky / pitbox which costs extra I believe.

philG
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7/9/2024 1:26pm
LungButter wrote:

Seems like it'd be kinda hard for MXGP to fly over 20 guys that were up to the standard to race the US guys.

That was sarcasm, right? 

3
LungButter
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7/9/2024 1:34pm
philG wrote:

That was sarcasm, right? 

I mean this is a thread talking about a race where they only had 13 riders on the line in the premier class at a GP, so is it a stretch to think they'd struggle to get 20?

I just checked the results on RacerX looks like they actually had 16 guys, of those 16 how many would get lapped by a guy like Filthy Phil that barely cracks the Top 10 each week in the US?  8?

 

1
4
7/9/2024 1:42pm
DeStouwer wrote:
By 1 guy. Most of the others here probably never even left their own state. And you seem to know in how many countries I've been...

By 1 guy. Most of the others here probably never even left their own state. And you seem to know in how many countries I've been better than I do. So yeah, I feel for you.

LungButter wrote:

I feel for you that your country is 8x smaller than my state.  Must suck.

He’s from the country of beer and many, many World and MXON Championships. I think he’ll be alright 

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sandman768
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7/9/2024 1:45pm

No answers about the 3rd world debate but it sure was epic when I went to the GP every year at Unadilla! Glad I witnessed it when the tracks were real MX, the bikes were much cooler…and the GP”s and their riders were mystical…. A fall GP at Unadilla or Southwick would be epic…. IMO if you don't have a 40 man gate, something is wrong…..

3
philG
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7/9/2024 1:52pm
philG wrote:

That was sarcasm, right? 

LungButter wrote:
I mean this is a thread talking about a race where they only had 13 riders on the line in the premier class at a GP...

I mean this is a thread talking about a race where they only had 13 riders on the line in the premier class at a GP, so is it a stretch to think they'd struggle to get 20?

I just checked the results on RacerX looks like they actually had 16 guys, of those 16 how many would get lapped by a guy like Filthy Phil that barely cracks the Top 10 each week in the US?  8?

 

How is a guy that wouldnt be in the top 15 going to be lapping people?

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2
St Ann More
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7/9/2024 2:43pm
philG wrote:

That was sarcasm, right? 

LungButter wrote:
I mean this is a thread talking about a race where they only had 13 riders on the line in the premier class at a GP...

I mean this is a thread talking about a race where they only had 13 riders on the line in the premier class at a GP, so is it a stretch to think they'd struggle to get 20?

I just checked the results on RacerX looks like they actually had 16 guys, of those 16 how many would get lapped by a guy like Filthy Phil that barely cracks the Top 10 each week in the US?  8?

 

Surprised Kullas is finishing inside the top ten when he rocks up to National. 

32 MXGPs deep and outside the top ten in every overall, even with half the field. 

2
LungButter
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7/9/2024 2:50pm

Fair point.

Maybe he is more motivated when he shows up to a US race since he can actually win some money and he knows he's at the premier series in the world?

You can't possibly look at the results of the last MXGP race and think that all 16 of those dudes are World Class can you?

Most the names in the photo below wouldn't be able to win the B Class at a local race in SoCal.

11
St Ann More
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7/9/2024 3:23pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2024 4:02pm
LungButter wrote:
Fair point. Maybe he is more motivated when he shows up to a US race since he can actually win some money and he knows he's...

Fair point.

Maybe he is more motivated when he shows up to a US race since he can actually win some money and he knows he's at the premier series in the world?

You can't possibly look at the results of the last MXGP race and think that all 16 of those dudes are World Class can you?

Most the names in the photo below wouldn't be able to win the B Class at a local race in SoCal.

Or maybe he spent his prime trying and couldn't get it done, but he can in the USA, even in the twilight of his career.

... just like Jose Butron did last season. 4 top 10s in 10 Nationals and a 6th overall at Southwick. Meanwhile 94 MXGPs deep, but only inside the top 10 on 4 occasions, including a flyaway in Mexico with 13 regulars back in 2015. The point I'm trying to make? Judging the depth of the top 20 in MXGP in 2015 or now based on a flyaway is a stretch.

And let's be real, it might be tradition, but some of the fastest 40 in the Nationals have no business being on that track with the likes of Sexton - they're just rolling roadblocks.

7
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TeamGreen
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7/9/2024 4:07pm

Don’t know how Kullas got dragged into this; but, he simply reminds me that the Euro”s have “The Outdoors” down to a science.

I’m jus’ sayin’…

5
NicNak
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7/9/2024 8:43pm
LungButter wrote:
Fair point. Maybe he is more motivated when he shows up to a US race since he can actually win some money and he knows he's...

Fair point.

Maybe he is more motivated when he shows up to a US race since he can actually win some money and he knows he's at the premier series in the world?

You can't possibly look at the results of the last MXGP race and think that all 16 of those dudes are World Class can you?

Most the names in the photo below wouldn't be able to win the B Class at a local race in SoCal.

Idk man. Toendel rips bad. Pretty confident he could snag a moto win in B class. It’s also funny how you cherry pick “so cal B class” which is really pro speed 😂 Landon Gordon is ridiculous   

mxrudi
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7/9/2024 10:33pm
LungButter wrote:
Fair point. Maybe he is more motivated when he shows up to a US race since he can actually win some money and he knows he's...

Fair point.

Maybe he is more motivated when he shows up to a US race since he can actually win some money and he knows he's at the premier series in the world?

You can't possibly look at the results of the last MXGP race and think that all 16 of those dudes are World Class can you?

Most the names in the photo below wouldn't be able to win the B Class at a local race in SoCal.

Jan Pancar beat Cristian Craig in a race 2 of the last year's MXON in Ernee with an MX2 privateer bike. I think top 14 in the photo are world class.

13
aees
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7/9/2024 11:33pm
philG wrote:

That was sarcasm, right? 

LungButter wrote:
I mean this is a thread talking about a race where they only had 13 riders on the line in the premier class at a GP...

I mean this is a thread talking about a race where they only had 13 riders on the line in the premier class at a GP, so is it a stretch to think they'd struggle to get 20?

I just checked the results on RacerX looks like they actually had 16 guys, of those 16 how many would get lapped by a guy like Filthy Phil that barely cracks the Top 10 each week in the US?  8?

 

The guys making top 10 in AMA this weekend is 10-20 in MXGP. So that would not be a problem for a US trip. Same as in US, very start dependent for those positions. 

If Ostlund and Kullas start 1-10 they end up 7-10 if no hazzle in USA. In MXGP they would be 10+ but a few top riders more missing in MXGP than Webb, Tomac, potentially roczen if you count him. Think it is 5-6 missing in MXGP. 

Motofinne
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7/9/2024 11:35pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2024 11:40pm

One thing is for sure. Going to Indonesia makes 100% sense for the OEMs and the promoters. It is one of the largest 2-wheeled markets in the world, so it is stupid to not go there. 

But with that said. The support from the parties that have things to gain by MXGP going there should be much bigger so that the 20-30th place GP riders could make the trip. Having 15 riders because the trip is too expensive and some of the factory and supported riders are hurt is not a great thing. JWR and Östlund going to America instead of Indonesia because it is cheaper is a very bad look, it should not happen.

6
tek14
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7/9/2024 11:53pm

Fly in your whole team and stuff for 2 weeks isnt cheap. With same money they could do so much more it just doesnt make sense to go Indonesia for smaller teams. 

DeStouwer
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7/9/2024 11:59pm

A long read, but I hope you all give it a chance:

A frequent topic on various motocross sites and forums is "how to grow the sport". When changes or attempts are made, little is gained in terms of new fans except for when big personalities or achievements are made (McGrath, Pastrana, Carmichael, Stewart,… come to mind). The sport also grows when a talent from more untraditional countries emerge (think of Gajser, Fonseca, etc.), bringing new money and interest.

From reading the feedback regarding the Indonesian MXGP rounds, I felt like many were missing the bigger picture here. Growing the sport means bringing money into the pockets of the stakeholders - plain and simple. More money for the stakeholders results in the teams getting better sponsorship deals, ultimately bringing more money and exposure to the riders and overall infrastructure. For reference: see what happened to salaries and team budgets post-2008 when outside money dried up and bike sales were low.

Population of South East Asia

For starters: South East Asia has approximately 2/3rds of the world’s population. In addition, motorcycles are the most common means of privately owned transportation. This means sales and brand awareness for a manufacturer is critical in order to compete.

image-20240710084705-1

As most of us know, motocross and dirt bikes in general are not what make the big brands their money. As been stated in multiple interviews by leading executives in many moto publications, motocross is important for brand awareness and competitiveness, but it does not mean much for a manufacturers overall sales figures. However, brand awareness is crucial to sales across the different bike categories. As you can see below, when put together with all off-road sales, it is still an incredibly small and niche market as a standalone:

(Source: Statista) https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/motorcycles/worldwide

Percentage of households owning motorcycles

As mentioned before, motorcycles are more common for households in South East Asia than cars. Add the fact that this counts for roughly 66% of the worldwide population and you have one hell of a giant market dwarfing any Western country.

Households owning a motorcycle or scooter (2014) https://www.statista.com/statistics/516704/share-of-households-that-own-a-motorcycle-by-country/

- The top 8 are all Asian, including world’s 2 most populated countries

- Two of the top 3 all have or recently had a GP:

1. Thailand (87%) - Total population = 70 million people

2. Vietnam (86%) - Total population = 99 million people

3. Indonesia (85%) - Total population = 280 million people

If anyone would like to argue buying power (besides +/-85% actually owning a motorcycle and/or a scooter), I´d point to the middle class as a good reference for buying power. China has according to Business Insider approximately 700 million people in the middle class. Some say it´s lower and roughly 400 million. It does not matter for the point I´m trying to make here: the Asian market is the largest by far. However, if anyone would like to make the argument, you will find the South East Asia middle class population from 2000 - 2020 here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1309353/sea-middle-class-population-size-by-country/

Why does this matter to Motocross?

Factories

For the factory teams this is a given - it sells bikes in the Asian market. I don´t know how well traveled people are here, but I have been to alot of Asian countries and what I often see are bikes decked out with aftermarket parts and stickers from MotoGP and MX. I will admit this is rather anecdotal though. But they might not all afford the real bikes, but you can bet many chose the brand they ride from the stickers and decals they run. Motorcycle racing is huge and brand awareness sells bikes. Getting Valentino Rossi to Yamaha did miracles for Yamaha in Asia alone. Bringing World Championships to these markets have their obvious advantages. The MotoGP calendar contains rounds in Qatar, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and India, all present or in the not so distant past. Same for Formula 1 with rounds in China, Malaysia, Bahrain, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Singapore or Azerbaijan of all places, but that’s a totally different sport anyway.

As for attracting sponsorship, I will cover this below:

Non-factory

Teams rely on sponsorship money to go racing. We are used to seeing sugary energy drinks, power tool manufacturers etc. as sponsors of teams. So for the following point I am sure some will dislike what I have to say. but since this is an economic and not a political issue, I´ll say it anyways:

It is not up to the promoters to give the teams or riders their sponsors. The MXGP´s offer a series which is being brought to the most populated parts of the world. It is each team´s own job to sell their sponsorship opportunities to the right stakeholders. I don´t believe for a second that big European teams can´t find sponsors wanting exposure in the Asian markets, be it for motorcycles, or synergetic markets. It all comes down to discovering new market segments to approach. One example is the high amount of Dutch MX teams, yet very little Asian sponsorship. With the Dutch having arguably a strong business presence in Asia, more rounds there should not really work at their disadvantage in terms of attracting new outside sponsorship.

So what is my point?

Back to the intro: what makes the sport grow? It is reaching new markets. Attracting new outside sponsorship and exposure. Forget the US and Europe for major growth. It has been tried for 50+ years, the market is either dried out or saturated. The sport needs new markets attracting new money and new promoters. MX sells motorcycles in Asia, and it can help sell local sponsors products too.

And here’s a thought: down the line, this can attract Asian teams and with them sponsors eager to grow exposure too. All InFront should do is to get the smaller teams to those venues, like by paying for their shipping costs, so they don't look a fool themselves with only 15 guys on the grid in their World Championship.

8
1
rym
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7/10/2024 4:02am
Motofinne wrote:
One thing is for sure. Going to Indonesia makes 100% sense for the OEMs and the promoters. It is one of the largest 2-wheeled markets in...

One thing is for sure. Going to Indonesia makes 100% sense for the OEMs and the promoters. It is one of the largest 2-wheeled markets in the world, so it is stupid to not go there. 

But with that said. The support from the parties that have things to gain by MXGP going there should be much bigger so that the 20-30th place GP riders could make the trip. Having 15 riders because the trip is too expensive and some of the factory and supported riders are hurt is not a great thing. JWR and Östlund going to America instead of Indonesia because it is cheaper is a very bad look, it should not happen.

I agree it is a bad look. But i would much rather have Infront and the oems & brands spend money on other things then getting guys like Ostlund to Indonesia. The money that has to be spend to get 1 extra rider at the overseas GP would make much more impact on things like safety/medical or getting full field at European GPs.

Motofinne
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7/10/2024 4:16am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2024 4:19am
Motofinne wrote:
One thing is for sure. Going to Indonesia makes 100% sense for the OEMs and the promoters. It is one of the largest 2-wheeled markets in...

One thing is for sure. Going to Indonesia makes 100% sense for the OEMs and the promoters. It is one of the largest 2-wheeled markets in the world, so it is stupid to not go there. 

But with that said. The support from the parties that have things to gain by MXGP going there should be much bigger so that the 20-30th place GP riders could make the trip. Having 15 riders because the trip is too expensive and some of the factory and supported riders are hurt is not a great thing. JWR and Östlund going to America instead of Indonesia because it is cheaper is a very bad look, it should not happen.

rym wrote:
I agree it is a bad look. But i would much rather have Infront and the oems & brands spend money on other things then getting...

I agree it is a bad look. But i would much rather have Infront and the oems & brands spend money on other things then getting guys like Ostlund to Indonesia. The money that has to be spend to get 1 extra rider at the overseas GP would make much more impact on things like safety/medical or getting full field at European GPs.

We are already getting 30-40 riders in most European rounds. The whole narrative around GPs and empty gates comes from fly away rounds when we have 5-10 riders hurt and missing because of cost from the gates at Indonesia, China etc."Fix" this and we are done with these topics.

4
7/10/2024 4:24am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2024 4:26am
DeStouwer wrote:
A long read, but I hope you all give it a chance: A frequent topic on various motocross sites and forums is "how to grow the...

A long read, but I hope you all give it a chance:

A frequent topic on various motocross sites and forums is "how to grow the sport". When changes or attempts are made, little is gained in terms of new fans except for when big personalities or achievements are made (McGrath, Pastrana, Carmichael, Stewart,… come to mind). The sport also grows when a talent from more untraditional countries emerge (think of Gajser, Fonseca, etc.), bringing new money and interest.

From reading the feedback regarding the Indonesian MXGP rounds, I felt like many were missing the bigger picture here. Growing the sport means bringing money into the pockets of the stakeholders - plain and simple. More money for the stakeholders results in the teams getting better sponsorship deals, ultimately bringing more money and exposure to the riders and overall infrastructure. For reference: see what happened to salaries and team budgets post-2008 when outside money dried up and bike sales were low.

Population of South East Asia

For starters: South East Asia has approximately 2/3rds of the world’s population. In addition, motorcycles are the most common means of privately owned transportation. This means sales and brand awareness for a manufacturer is critical in order to compete.

image-20240710084705-1

As most of us know, motocross and dirt bikes in general are not what make the big brands their money. As been stated in multiple interviews by leading executives in many moto publications, motocross is important for brand awareness and competitiveness, but it does not mean much for a manufacturers overall sales figures. However, brand awareness is crucial to sales across the different bike categories. As you can see below, when put together with all off-road sales, it is still an incredibly small and niche market as a standalone:

(Source: Statista) https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/motorcycles/worldwide

Percentage of households owning motorcycles

As mentioned before, motorcycles are more common for households in South East Asia than cars. Add the fact that this counts for roughly 66% of the worldwide population and you have one hell of a giant market dwarfing any Western country.

Households owning a motorcycle or scooter (2014) https://www.statista.com/statistics/516704/share-of-households-that-own-a-motorcycle-by-country/

- The top 8 are all Asian, including world’s 2 most populated countries

- Two of the top 3 all have or recently had a GP:

1. Thailand (87%) - Total population = 70 million people

2. Vietnam (86%) - Total population = 99 million people

3. Indonesia (85%) - Total population = 280 million people

If anyone would like to argue buying power (besides +/-85% actually owning a motorcycle and/or a scooter), I´d point to the middle class as a good reference for buying power. China has according to Business Insider approximately 700 million people in the middle class. Some say it´s lower and roughly 400 million. It does not matter for the point I´m trying to make here: the Asian market is the largest by far. However, if anyone would like to make the argument, you will find the South East Asia middle class population from 2000 - 2020 here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1309353/sea-middle-class-population-size-by-country/

Why does this matter to Motocross?

Factories

For the factory teams this is a given - it sells bikes in the Asian market. I don´t know how well traveled people are here, but I have been to alot of Asian countries and what I often see are bikes decked out with aftermarket parts and stickers from MotoGP and MX. I will admit this is rather anecdotal though. But they might not all afford the real bikes, but you can bet many chose the brand they ride from the stickers and decals they run. Motorcycle racing is huge and brand awareness sells bikes. Getting Valentino Rossi to Yamaha did miracles for Yamaha in Asia alone. Bringing World Championships to these markets have their obvious advantages. The MotoGP calendar contains rounds in Qatar, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and India, all present or in the not so distant past. Same for Formula 1 with rounds in China, Malaysia, Bahrain, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Singapore or Azerbaijan of all places, but that’s a totally different sport anyway.

As for attracting sponsorship, I will cover this below:

Non-factory

Teams rely on sponsorship money to go racing. We are used to seeing sugary energy drinks, power tool manufacturers etc. as sponsors of teams. So for the following point I am sure some will dislike what I have to say. but since this is an economic and not a political issue, I´ll say it anyways:

It is not up to the promoters to give the teams or riders their sponsors. The MXGP´s offer a series which is being brought to the most populated parts of the world. It is each team´s own job to sell their sponsorship opportunities to the right stakeholders. I don´t believe for a second that big European teams can´t find sponsors wanting exposure in the Asian markets, be it for motorcycles, or synergetic markets. It all comes down to discovering new market segments to approach. One example is the high amount of Dutch MX teams, yet very little Asian sponsorship. With the Dutch having arguably a strong business presence in Asia, more rounds there should not really work at their disadvantage in terms of attracting new outside sponsorship.

So what is my point?

Back to the intro: what makes the sport grow? It is reaching new markets. Attracting new outside sponsorship and exposure. Forget the US and Europe for major growth. It has been tried for 50+ years, the market is either dried out or saturated. The sport needs new markets attracting new money and new promoters. MX sells motorcycles in Asia, and it can help sell local sponsors products too.

And here’s a thought: down the line, this can attract Asian teams and with them sponsors eager to grow exposure too. All InFront should do is to get the smaller teams to those venues, like by paying for their shipping costs, so they don't look a fool themselves with only 15 guys on the grid in their World Championship.

Blah blah blah. And women are also worthless in most those countries.          1/3 of those 2/3 live in absolute poverty, because of rampant corruption DeStouwer. And take a look at the electricity powerpoles…epitomises the cultural lack of safety and disregard for it. You want to send racers there?
 Backwards cultures, and ill argue this until your ears bleed. Been there enough! 
 

1
5
DeStouwer
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7/10/2024 5:28am
DeStouwer wrote:
A long read, but I hope you all give it a chance: A frequent topic on various motocross sites and forums is "how to grow the...

A long read, but I hope you all give it a chance:

A frequent topic on various motocross sites and forums is "how to grow the sport". When changes or attempts are made, little is gained in terms of new fans except for when big personalities or achievements are made (McGrath, Pastrana, Carmichael, Stewart,… come to mind). The sport also grows when a talent from more untraditional countries emerge (think of Gajser, Fonseca, etc.), bringing new money and interest.

From reading the feedback regarding the Indonesian MXGP rounds, I felt like many were missing the bigger picture here. Growing the sport means bringing money into the pockets of the stakeholders - plain and simple. More money for the stakeholders results in the teams getting better sponsorship deals, ultimately bringing more money and exposure to the riders and overall infrastructure. For reference: see what happened to salaries and team budgets post-2008 when outside money dried up and bike sales were low.

Population of South East Asia

For starters: South East Asia has approximately 2/3rds of the world’s population. In addition, motorcycles are the most common means of privately owned transportation. This means sales and brand awareness for a manufacturer is critical in order to compete.

image-20240710084705-1

As most of us know, motocross and dirt bikes in general are not what make the big brands their money. As been stated in multiple interviews by leading executives in many moto publications, motocross is important for brand awareness and competitiveness, but it does not mean much for a manufacturers overall sales figures. However, brand awareness is crucial to sales across the different bike categories. As you can see below, when put together with all off-road sales, it is still an incredibly small and niche market as a standalone:

(Source: Statista) https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/motorcycles/worldwide

Percentage of households owning motorcycles

As mentioned before, motorcycles are more common for households in South East Asia than cars. Add the fact that this counts for roughly 66% of the worldwide population and you have one hell of a giant market dwarfing any Western country.

Households owning a motorcycle or scooter (2014) https://www.statista.com/statistics/516704/share-of-households-that-own-a-motorcycle-by-country/

- The top 8 are all Asian, including world’s 2 most populated countries

- Two of the top 3 all have or recently had a GP:

1. Thailand (87%) - Total population = 70 million people

2. Vietnam (86%) - Total population = 99 million people

3. Indonesia (85%) - Total population = 280 million people

If anyone would like to argue buying power (besides +/-85% actually owning a motorcycle and/or a scooter), I´d point to the middle class as a good reference for buying power. China has according to Business Insider approximately 700 million people in the middle class. Some say it´s lower and roughly 400 million. It does not matter for the point I´m trying to make here: the Asian market is the largest by far. However, if anyone would like to make the argument, you will find the South East Asia middle class population from 2000 - 2020 here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1309353/sea-middle-class-population-size-by-country/

Why does this matter to Motocross?

Factories

For the factory teams this is a given - it sells bikes in the Asian market. I don´t know how well traveled people are here, but I have been to alot of Asian countries and what I often see are bikes decked out with aftermarket parts and stickers from MotoGP and MX. I will admit this is rather anecdotal though. But they might not all afford the real bikes, but you can bet many chose the brand they ride from the stickers and decals they run. Motorcycle racing is huge and brand awareness sells bikes. Getting Valentino Rossi to Yamaha did miracles for Yamaha in Asia alone. Bringing World Championships to these markets have their obvious advantages. The MotoGP calendar contains rounds in Qatar, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and India, all present or in the not so distant past. Same for Formula 1 with rounds in China, Malaysia, Bahrain, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Singapore or Azerbaijan of all places, but that’s a totally different sport anyway.

As for attracting sponsorship, I will cover this below:

Non-factory

Teams rely on sponsorship money to go racing. We are used to seeing sugary energy drinks, power tool manufacturers etc. as sponsors of teams. So for the following point I am sure some will dislike what I have to say. but since this is an economic and not a political issue, I´ll say it anyways:

It is not up to the promoters to give the teams or riders their sponsors. The MXGP´s offer a series which is being brought to the most populated parts of the world. It is each team´s own job to sell their sponsorship opportunities to the right stakeholders. I don´t believe for a second that big European teams can´t find sponsors wanting exposure in the Asian markets, be it for motorcycles, or synergetic markets. It all comes down to discovering new market segments to approach. One example is the high amount of Dutch MX teams, yet very little Asian sponsorship. With the Dutch having arguably a strong business presence in Asia, more rounds there should not really work at their disadvantage in terms of attracting new outside sponsorship.

So what is my point?

Back to the intro: what makes the sport grow? It is reaching new markets. Attracting new outside sponsorship and exposure. Forget the US and Europe for major growth. It has been tried for 50+ years, the market is either dried out or saturated. The sport needs new markets attracting new money and new promoters. MX sells motorcycles in Asia, and it can help sell local sponsors products too.

And here’s a thought: down the line, this can attract Asian teams and with them sponsors eager to grow exposure too. All InFront should do is to get the smaller teams to those venues, like by paying for their shipping costs, so they don't look a fool themselves with only 15 guys on the grid in their World Championship.

Blah blah blah. And women are also worthless in most those countries.          1/3 of those 2/3 live in absolute poverty, because of...

Blah blah blah. And women are also worthless in most those countries.          1/3 of those 2/3 live in absolute poverty, because of rampant corruption DeStouwer. And take a look at the electricity powerpoles…epitomises the cultural lack of safety and disregard for it. You want to send racers there?
 Backwards cultures, and ill argue this until your ears bleed. Been there enough! 
 

You're right, everyone knows there's absolutely no corruption nor absolute poverty in the Western world.

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1
7/10/2024 6:34am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2024 6:35am

Luckily there were no frontrunners landing on lapped riders.Cool

1
7/10/2024 3:36pm
DeStouwer wrote:
A long read, but I hope you all give it a chance: A frequent topic on various motocross sites and forums is "how to grow the...

A long read, but I hope you all give it a chance:

A frequent topic on various motocross sites and forums is "how to grow the sport". When changes or attempts are made, little is gained in terms of new fans except for when big personalities or achievements are made (McGrath, Pastrana, Carmichael, Stewart,… come to mind). The sport also grows when a talent from more untraditional countries emerge (think of Gajser, Fonseca, etc.), bringing new money and interest.

From reading the feedback regarding the Indonesian MXGP rounds, I felt like many were missing the bigger picture here. Growing the sport means bringing money into the pockets of the stakeholders - plain and simple. More money for the stakeholders results in the teams getting better sponsorship deals, ultimately bringing more money and exposure to the riders and overall infrastructure. For reference: see what happened to salaries and team budgets post-2008 when outside money dried up and bike sales were low.

Population of South East Asia

For starters: South East Asia has approximately 2/3rds of the world’s population. In addition, motorcycles are the most common means of privately owned transportation. This means sales and brand awareness for a manufacturer is critical in order to compete.

image-20240710084705-1

As most of us know, motocross and dirt bikes in general are not what make the big brands their money. As been stated in multiple interviews by leading executives in many moto publications, motocross is important for brand awareness and competitiveness, but it does not mean much for a manufacturers overall sales figures. However, brand awareness is crucial to sales across the different bike categories. As you can see below, when put together with all off-road sales, it is still an incredibly small and niche market as a standalone:

(Source: Statista) https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/motorcycles/worldwide

Percentage of households owning motorcycles

As mentioned before, motorcycles are more common for households in South East Asia than cars. Add the fact that this counts for roughly 66% of the worldwide population and you have one hell of a giant market dwarfing any Western country.

Households owning a motorcycle or scooter (2014) https://www.statista.com/statistics/516704/share-of-households-that-own-a-motorcycle-by-country/

- The top 8 are all Asian, including world’s 2 most populated countries

- Two of the top 3 all have or recently had a GP:

1. Thailand (87%) - Total population = 70 million people

2. Vietnam (86%) - Total population = 99 million people

3. Indonesia (85%) - Total population = 280 million people

If anyone would like to argue buying power (besides +/-85% actually owning a motorcycle and/or a scooter), I´d point to the middle class as a good reference for buying power. China has according to Business Insider approximately 700 million people in the middle class. Some say it´s lower and roughly 400 million. It does not matter for the point I´m trying to make here: the Asian market is the largest by far. However, if anyone would like to make the argument, you will find the South East Asia middle class population from 2000 - 2020 here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1309353/sea-middle-class-population-size-by-country/

Why does this matter to Motocross?

Factories

For the factory teams this is a given - it sells bikes in the Asian market. I don´t know how well traveled people are here, but I have been to alot of Asian countries and what I often see are bikes decked out with aftermarket parts and stickers from MotoGP and MX. I will admit this is rather anecdotal though. But they might not all afford the real bikes, but you can bet many chose the brand they ride from the stickers and decals they run. Motorcycle racing is huge and brand awareness sells bikes. Getting Valentino Rossi to Yamaha did miracles for Yamaha in Asia alone. Bringing World Championships to these markets have their obvious advantages. The MotoGP calendar contains rounds in Qatar, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and India, all present or in the not so distant past. Same for Formula 1 with rounds in China, Malaysia, Bahrain, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Singapore or Azerbaijan of all places, but that’s a totally different sport anyway.

As for attracting sponsorship, I will cover this below:

Non-factory

Teams rely on sponsorship money to go racing. We are used to seeing sugary energy drinks, power tool manufacturers etc. as sponsors of teams. So for the following point I am sure some will dislike what I have to say. but since this is an economic and not a political issue, I´ll say it anyways:

It is not up to the promoters to give the teams or riders their sponsors. The MXGP´s offer a series which is being brought to the most populated parts of the world. It is each team´s own job to sell their sponsorship opportunities to the right stakeholders. I don´t believe for a second that big European teams can´t find sponsors wanting exposure in the Asian markets, be it for motorcycles, or synergetic markets. It all comes down to discovering new market segments to approach. One example is the high amount of Dutch MX teams, yet very little Asian sponsorship. With the Dutch having arguably a strong business presence in Asia, more rounds there should not really work at their disadvantage in terms of attracting new outside sponsorship.

So what is my point?

Back to the intro: what makes the sport grow? It is reaching new markets. Attracting new outside sponsorship and exposure. Forget the US and Europe for major growth. It has been tried for 50+ years, the market is either dried out or saturated. The sport needs new markets attracting new money and new promoters. MX sells motorcycles in Asia, and it can help sell local sponsors products too.

And here’s a thought: down the line, this can attract Asian teams and with them sponsors eager to grow exposure too. All InFront should do is to get the smaller teams to those venues, like by paying for their shipping costs, so they don't look a fool themselves with only 15 guys on the grid in their World Championship.

Another thing to point out is these countries are rapidly developing, and although the main two-wheeled purchases now may be small displacement bikes and scooters, in a few decades sport bikes and dirt bikes might be massive sellers. The motorcycle market in the west is shrinking, it is still growing in SE Asia. So the rewards for these obscure GPs may not be seen immediately (in sales of performance bikes and motocross participation rates specifically), but they will be seen eventually. 

As for the prize money thing, I agree. It's unique to America that prize money is seen as something holy that needs to be present. Almost no World Championship motorsport awards prize money. F1 doesn't, WRC doesn't, MotoGP doesn't, WEC doesn't, WSBK doesn't, etc. It's the teams' jobs to pay the riders

2
7/10/2024 11:47pm


 

Out here in one of the poorest regions in Thailand, 20 miles from one of the poorest countries (Laos), enjoying wash bays, running water, electricity, gravel/asphalt pits, and public toilets.

Third world motocross folks.

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js256
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7/11/2024 10:54am

It really makes you appreciate the ama series. Full grids of fast racing 

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