Jett's Grit

6/10/2024 12:58pm
zehn wrote:
Villo was really the only rider who could consistently make the super aggressive style work on a 450 for any amount of time and it bit...

Villo was really the only rider who could consistently make the super aggressive style work on a 450 for any amount of time and it bit him too at times

So we’re just gonna ignore Tomac? 

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Tumic
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6/10/2024 1:02pm
Tyler D wrote:
i'm sincerely surprised we haven't seen a Weege video on the apparent correlation between multi-time champions and relatively conservative riding styles.  you don't really see the...

i'm sincerely surprised we haven't seen a Weege video on the apparent correlation between multi-time champions and relatively conservative riding styles.  you don't really see the Alessis, Macadoos (sorry), Durhams, Jlaws, Stewarts (both...sorry), et al with staying power at the top. i'm sure there's way better examples, but i'm drawing a blank. 

who is the most flamboyant/unorthodox rider that consistently stayed at the top of the 450s and healthy? RV? RC was unorthodox but he wasn't inefficient/flamboyant. 

It seems that the american media don’t want to touch on the subject. RC always try to justify a bad riding style during the broadcast and say that it’s not a must to ride smooth even if we all can see the clear benefits of it.

James just talk about how the bikes work and never how the riders riding style affect the handling of the bike.

Matthes is on the same train as RC and don’t get me started about Weege…

 

But it would say RC/RV and Tomac are the ones who made it work the best, but times has changed now. Those three were kind of superior to their competition when it comes to fitness.

Now days all the top riders have about the same fitness so the riding have a larger difference now i would say.

 

Think about how hard RC could have had it if MC were on the same level of fitness with his talent on the bike.

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Tyler D
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6/10/2024 1:23pm
Tyler D wrote:
i'm sincerely surprised we haven't seen a Weege video on the apparent correlation between multi-time champions and relatively conservative riding styles.  you don't really see the...

i'm sincerely surprised we haven't seen a Weege video on the apparent correlation between multi-time champions and relatively conservative riding styles.  you don't really see the Alessis, Macadoos (sorry), Durhams, Jlaws, Stewarts (both...sorry), et al with staying power at the top. i'm sure there's way better examples, but i'm drawing a blank. 

who is the most flamboyant/unorthodox rider that consistently stayed at the top of the 450s and healthy? RV? RC was unorthodox but he wasn't inefficient/flamboyant. 

Tumic wrote:
It seems that the american media don’t want to touch on the subject. RC always try to justify a bad riding style during the broadcast and...

It seems that the american media don’t want to touch on the subject. RC always try to justify a bad riding style during the broadcast and say that it’s not a must to ride smooth even if we all can see the clear benefits of it.

James just talk about how the bikes work and never how the riders riding style affect the handling of the bike.

Matthes is on the same train as RC and don’t get me started about Weege…

 

But it would say RC/RV and Tomac are the ones who made it work the best, but times has changed now. Those three were kind of superior to their competition when it comes to fitness.

Now days all the top riders have about the same fitness so the riding have a larger difference now i would say.

 

Think about how hard RC could have had it if MC were on the same level of fitness with his talent on the bike.

great points. they do push the narrative hard and its pretty funny. what has Weege said about it? He is a high minded intellectual, so the egalitarian 'equal opportunity' narrative would seem to fit him too. 

id argue tomac rides it like its a downhill mtb and its not a horrible thing, but he does have insane fitness and also knows when to back it down. 

6/10/2024 1:54pm
Leemur891 wrote:

I feel like Jett’s been riding at 80% nearly every race unless someone shows him a front tire. 

I don’t think it’s realistic to think he could have had 1:50.866 lap times on avg. 

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Tumic
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6/10/2024 2:47pm
Tyler D wrote:
great points. they do push the narrative hard and its pretty funny. what has Weege said about it? He is a high minded intellectual, so the...

great points. they do push the narrative hard and its pretty funny. what has Weege said about it? He is a high minded intellectual, so the egalitarian 'equal opportunity' narrative would seem to fit him too. 

id argue tomac rides it like its a downhill mtb and its not a horrible thing, but he does have insane fitness and also knows when to back it down. 

Weege has not said anything about it.

 

This will be a unpopular opinion in here but in my eyes Tomac is just a slugger on the bike. He has a decent tecnique but he ride with zero finess. He just smash in to stuff at high RPM’s and hammer the clutch. And he loves his outside berms. 
 

Think about how much longer in distance he ride each lap just hammering outside berms and how much faster than the rest he must ride choosing those lines he use to justify the distance. 
 

All of that worked out fine until the likes of Roczen and Dungey came along. That were just as fit but smoother on the track. And now the riding in the US has elevated one step more with Jett that is like a Stefan Everts 2.0

So it’s just a evolution that what once worked might not be enough anymore.

 

if all the riders that line up have about the same fitness, the only way to win is to be the best rider it’s pretty simple.

 

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Team Tortuga
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6/10/2024 3:00pm

The kid is phenomenal. More than living up to the hype. I’m hoping Chase and Hunter will make a good run at him to keep it interesting, but Jett seems to have a little something extra, no matter the circumstances. 

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zehn
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6/10/2024 3:22pm
zehn wrote:
Villo was really the only rider who could consistently make the super aggressive style work on a 450 for any amount of time and it bit...

Villo was really the only rider who could consistently make the super aggressive style work on a 450 for any amount of time and it bit him too at times

So we’re just gonna ignore Tomac? 

Fair question, I didn’t mean to exclude him, I was just thinking historically and not about current riders

deanwhite51
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6/10/2024 4:06pm
zehn wrote:
Villo was really the only rider who could consistently make the super aggressive style work on a 450 for any amount of time and it bit...

Villo was really the only rider who could consistently make the super aggressive style work on a 450 for any amount of time and it bit him too at times

So we’re just gonna ignore Tomac? 

are you going to ignore how long it took Tomac to win an SX title due to crashes?

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1 day ago
Tumic wrote:
Weege has not said anything about it.   This will be a unpopular opinion in here but in my eyes Tomac is just a slugger on...

Weege has not said anything about it.

 

This will be a unpopular opinion in here but in my eyes Tomac is just a slugger on the bike. He has a decent tecnique but he ride with zero finess. He just smash in to stuff at high RPM’s and hammer the clutch. And he loves his outside berms. 
 

Think about how much longer in distance he ride each lap just hammering outside berms and how much faster than the rest he must ride choosing those lines he use to justify the distance. 
 

All of that worked out fine until the likes of Roczen and Dungey came along. That were just as fit but smoother on the track. And now the riding in the US has elevated one step more with Jett that is like a Stefan Everts 2.0

So it’s just a evolution that what once worked might not be enough anymore.

 

if all the riders that line up have about the same fitness, the only way to win is to be the best rider it’s pretty simple.

 

It's an excellent point.  At Thunder Valley XX, the difference between Tomac and Roczen was immediately apparent while I was standing on the fence.  Tomac rode like he was angry and Roczen just sort of cruised around, hardly even revving the bike.  Pretty sure Kenny won that one. 

 

1 day ago
wrc777 wrote:
I think Deegan rides more on the edge than Jett, and it bites him like Hangtown where he almost ended his season. With Jett having 2...

I think Deegan rides more on the edge than Jett, and it bites him like Hangtown where he almost ended his season. With Jett having 2 years on him, Deegan will come into the 450 class when Jett is just reaching his peak which he should be able to stay at for 4-6 years. If Deegan were a couple of years younger than he is, he would have a better shot of dethroning Jett.

Tumic wrote:
Yeah, Deegans amateur-ish wfo style of riding will bite him in the ass more than once until he clean that up, and if he don’t he...

Yeah, Deegans amateur-ish wfo style of riding will bite him in the ass more than once until he clean that up, and if he don’t he wont last a full moto on a 450 riding like that.

The Deegan family knows the timeline that Jett and Haiden is on and i don’t think that they are in a rush to get him on a 450 just because of that.


 

I tend to agree. But Haiden has so much desire and will to win, you can't underestimate him. I can see his style making him a real threat outdoors but sx it could bite him

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lumpy790
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1 day ago

Mentally who is the top dog now?

Tomac has always been his own worst enemy cracking under pressure. He had a stint as top dog but even at the 1st MXoN at Red Bud he cracked and I even thought he had it.

Right now Jett is banged up but still in the hunt and he is a extremely smart racer that knows when its time to give it 100% or back down and take the points and move on toward the final goal of a championship.

Last year there were no cracks in Jett’s 450 mental or physical game.

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Tumic
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1 day ago
I tend to agree. But Haiden has so much desire and will to win, you can't underestimate him. I can see his style making him a...

I tend to agree. But Haiden has so much desire and will to win, you can't underestimate him. I can see his style making him a real threat outdoors but sx it could bite him

It’s easier to make it work on a 250 but look at Southwick last year where he over-rode the track with his style of riding.

He remind me of Barcia that had a decent 250 career but could not translate that in to the big class since a 450 don’t respond well to that type of riding.

Brian is not stupid so they will work on it, but when Haiden get in his zone he tend to fall back in his typical amateur style of riding.

 

That kind of style has a narrow operating window. In either mud, sand or blue groove it is not effective but it works on a track with perfect traction and nice berms.

Haiden has the typical ”training facility amateur” riding style in my eyes where he has pounded lap after lap on a perfectly groomed track just chasing lap times.

 

That’s why (some) of the US riders struggle at mxdn when it’s held in europe because the track conditions are outside of their operating window.

And that’s why we see Roczen, Musquin, Lawrence brothers, Pourcel, Townley etc excell when it comes to other than ideal american prepped tracks.

 

But i really belive that this is about to change now since Jett started to dominante the 450’s. Many riders got a wakeup call regarding what has to be done now if they want to be the best. Ride smarter instead of harder. And just look at Hymas this weekend, so i think tha facilitys will start to adapt their training a bit.

 

Just a few years back it was impossible for someone to think that a championship would go to another rider than a Aldon Baker trained rider. And now riders try to get away from him since it’s just focus on laptimes and no room for tecnique training.

Haiden also left the farm for awhile to focus on his riding style, so with that in mind i really belive that we will see a change in the american pro training in the near future.

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