stock shim sequence 93' CR125

slipdog
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3/7/2017 8:29am
i've got a '93 250 though but the part numbers are the same for the compression adjuster, soon will re valve it myself so i'll let...
i've got a '93 250 though but the part numbers are the same for the compression adjuster, soon will re valve it myself so i'll let you know fyi the compression stack, don't know if i'm gonna hassle with the rebound valving, kinda afraid to unpin the cartridge!

Do you have any unpinning idea's? might get around with the rebound too and give out you the info..
You'll need to get a drill bit the same size or just a hair larger in diameter than the dimples that hold the seal head from coming unscrewed and drill into the dimples just a few millimeters. You need to drill into each one just far enough to remove the dimples that distort the threads of the cartridge and also far enough to cut out the male threads of the seal head that are smashed flat, but not go all the way through the seal head. Once you drill far enough that the tapered tip of the bit is into the cartridge and the shaft of the bit starts to go in about a millimeter or so, that should be enough and you can use a mallet to tap off the steel ring that is pressed on the 4 prongs of the seal head the spring rests on. Hit the cartridge with a little heat to relax the threads and grab the 4 prongs with a cartridge tool or something improvised that wont destroy the prongs and the seal head will spin off.
Henkies
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3/7/2017 2:19pm Edited Date/Time 3/7/2017 2:21pm
i've got a '93 250 though but the part numbers are the same for the compression adjuster, soon will re valve it myself so i'll let...
i've got a '93 250 though but the part numbers are the same for the compression adjuster, soon will re valve it myself so i'll let you know fyi the compression stack, don't know if i'm gonna hassle with the rebound valving, kinda afraid to unpin the cartridge!

Do you have any unpinning idea's? might get around with the rebound too and give out you the info..
Yeah just open it. I have another threat about this topic, in which I'll show what slipdog means. When you're drilling the tube and watch closely, you can see when you're through. Loctite was applied to my threat, so a couple seconds heating was required indeed. But didn't need to grap the 4 sprongs. You can just put a wrench on the seal head. All fairly easy when done once. Would be great if you can provide me with the stock sequence.

Anyways I'll try If I can figure out how this CPS system is supposed to be. Unfortunately Reiger doesn't have time do dive into this issue. They still do it on currrent model WP forks. Unless my Reiger rear shock, my forks don't have a stamped ID-code. So it's either going to be build again like on the pictures, or made stock.

By the way Slipdog: In my CPS translation I made a mistake: The left leg, bottom adjuster is compression, not rebound.
3/8/2017 12:04pm
thanks for the input, will let you know guys.

my forks are harsh at HighSpeed damping so i guess that i've to modify and the midvalve too, i'm planning to modify the base valve piston to get more flow they seem very restrictive.
3/12/2017 12:37am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2017 12:38am
Ok guys got the base valve off so here it goes, stock valving on CR250 '93

rebound check valve
21,5 x 0,40

compression valve
(from piston to base valve)

21 x 0,10
20 x 0,10
19 x 0,10
18 x 0,10
17 x 0,10
16 x 0,10
15 x 0,10
14 x 0,10
13 x 0,10
12 x 0,10
11 x 0,10
17 x 0,15

17 x 1,40

will disassemble the cartridge and report back with the rebound/mid valving.

If anyone could advise me please about base valve revalving?
I'm 90kg's and doing mostly enduro-trail, using 0,46 springs and it feels very harsh (comp/rebound adusters are all fully open) at rocks/bumps/roots. Was thinking to do a two stage valving, what are your opinions and what options do I've? Also i've enlarged the piston holes and now the flow is about 33% more than the original (2mm holes bored o 3mm).

Thanks

The Shop

Henkies
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3/12/2017 3:11am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2017 3:21am
I'll show the picture of that drilling here.


I needed to take this off to place the spacer, but you won't. However the same counts for the cartridge:

At the place where you're drilling, the diameter of the inner part is actually smaller than the tread.
So if you stop and watch the metal frequently, you'll start tot see a line once you're through. I recommend to take a drill that's a bit larger then the dimple, otherwise you'll drill deeper into the part below.

When you've not drilled far/wide enough, the tread strips off in the hole once you start to rotate the part out. Then just turn it back and drill a bit deeper/wider.

Henkies
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3/12/2017 3:19am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2017 3:20am
Ok guys got the base valve off so here it goes, stock valving on CR250 '93 rebound check valve 21,5 x 0,40 compression valve (from piston...
Ok guys got the base valve off so here it goes, stock valving on CR250 '93

rebound check valve
21,5 x 0,40

compression valve
(from piston to base valve)

21 x 0,10
20 x 0,10
19 x 0,10
18 x 0,10
17 x 0,10
16 x 0,10
15 x 0,10
14 x 0,10
13 x 0,10
12 x 0,10
11 x 0,10
17 x 0,15

17 x 1,40

will disassemble the cartridge and report back with the rebound/mid valving.

If anyone could advise me please about base valve revalving?
I'm 90kg's and doing mostly enduro-trail, using 0,46 springs and it feels very harsh (comp/rebound adusters are all fully open) at rocks/bumps/roots. Was thinking to do a two stage valving, what are your opinions and what options do I've? Also i've enlarged the piston holes and now the flow is about 33% more than the original (2mm holes bored o 3mm).

Thanks
Note that your flow is not 33% more. The diameter is, but the area increased much more..
pi * r 2 = 3,14 * 1 * 1 =3,14 square mm
whereas 3,14 * 1,5 * 1,5 = 7 square mm.
So the flow is more than doubled.

What is the reason for that 17x0,15 shim, anyone knows?
slipdog
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Location
Nor Cal, CA US
3/12/2017 8:57am
Ok guys got the base valve off so here it goes, stock valving on CR250 '93 rebound check valve 21,5 x 0,40 compression valve (from piston...
Ok guys got the base valve off so here it goes, stock valving on CR250 '93

rebound check valve
21,5 x 0,40

compression valve
(from piston to base valve)

21 x 0,10
20 x 0,10
19 x 0,10
18 x 0,10
17 x 0,10
16 x 0,10
15 x 0,10
14 x 0,10
13 x 0,10
12 x 0,10
11 x 0,10
17 x 0,15

17 x 1,40

will disassemble the cartridge and report back with the rebound/mid valving.

If anyone could advise me please about base valve revalving?
I'm 90kg's and doing mostly enduro-trail, using 0,46 springs and it feels very harsh (comp/rebound adusters are all fully open) at rocks/bumps/roots. Was thinking to do a two stage valving, what are your opinions and what options do I've? Also i've enlarged the piston holes and now the flow is about 33% more than the original (2mm holes bored o 3mm).

Thanks
Henkies wrote:
Note that your flow is not 33% more. The diameter is, but the area increased much more.. pi * r 2 = 3,14 * 1 *...
Note that your flow is not 33% more. The diameter is, but the area increased much more..
pi * r 2 = 3,14 * 1 * 1 =3,14 square mm
whereas 3,14 * 1,5 * 1,5 = 7 square mm.
So the flow is more than doubled.

What is the reason for that 17x0,15 shim, anyone knows?
Looks like we were pretty close with your valving stack, especially noting the 9.15 may be soft for the clamp and 10 or 11 may be a better choice.. At least now you know where you stand if you decide to convert it back to a standard configuration.

The 17.15 on the base is irrelevant to the shim stack and likely only there as a spacer to make sure the top nut tightens all the way without running out of threads on the shaft. Anything under the clamp shim(smallest diameter shim at the bottom of the tapered stack) has no damping effect.
slipdog
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Location
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3/12/2017 9:22am
Ok guys got the base valve off so here it goes, stock valving on CR250 '93 rebound check valve 21,5 x 0,40 compression valve (from piston...
Ok guys got the base valve off so here it goes, stock valving on CR250 '93

rebound check valve
21,5 x 0,40

compression valve
(from piston to base valve)

21 x 0,10
20 x 0,10
19 x 0,10
18 x 0,10
17 x 0,10
16 x 0,10
15 x 0,10
14 x 0,10
13 x 0,10
12 x 0,10
11 x 0,10
17 x 0,15

17 x 1,40

will disassemble the cartridge and report back with the rebound/mid valving.

If anyone could advise me please about base valve revalving?
I'm 90kg's and doing mostly enduro-trail, using 0,46 springs and it feels very harsh (comp/rebound adusters are all fully open) at rocks/bumps/roots. Was thinking to do a two stage valving, what are your opinions and what options do I've? Also i've enlarged the piston holes and now the flow is about 33% more than the original (2mm holes bored o 3mm).

Thanks
There are plenty of options to try, but assuming you don't have access to extra shims I would suggest using what you have to build it like this.

21.1
20.1
12.1
19.1
17.1
15.1
13.1
11.1- clamp

14.1
16.1
17.15
18.1

Use the 12.1 as the crossover and the 14, 16, and 18.1 you remove you just reverse taper after the 11.1 clamp to keep the total height the same as stock. The 18.1 will overhang the base plate slightly, but not cause any issue and you can leave it, or any of the even # shims you remove from the original stack out completely if there's enough threads left on the shaft when you put the nut back on.
3/12/2017 9:34am
guys I cannot disassemble the cartridge, have bored out the factory peening (check pic bellow), have heated enough and tried by locking the cartridge body and using a wrench to unscrew the head but still it won't come off, i've tried untill the whole cartridge is bending slightly.

any suggestions?

Henkies
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NF
3/12/2017 9:44am
I made a wooden clamp to put it in the vise. The cartridge kept rotating a bit, but I hit the wrench instead of pulling it. That caused enough impact to loosen the thread after heating. Don't you just need to heat more and try it that way?
slipdog
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Location
Nor Cal, CA US
3/12/2017 9:48am
Are you using a shaft clamp to hold it in the vice or just putting the cartridge between the vice jaws?

You look to have drilled far enough, but you could go in another millimeter or so on each to make sure. The key is holding it securely with clamps and heat. After 25 years they can be stubborn.
3/12/2017 9:50am
slipdog wrote:
There are plenty of options to try, but assuming you don't have access to extra shims I would suggest using what you have to build it...
There are plenty of options to try, but assuming you don't have access to extra shims I would suggest using what you have to build it like this.

21.1
20.1
12.1
19.1
17.1
15.1
13.1
11.1- clamp

14.1
16.1
17.15
18.1

Use the 12.1 as the crossover and the 14, 16, and 18.1 you remove you just reverse taper after the 11.1 clamp to keep the total height the same as stock. The 18.1 will overhang the base plate slightly, but not cause any issue and you can leave it, or any of the even # shims you remove from the original stack out completely if there's enough threads left on the shaft when you put the nut back on.
Thank you,
I've access to extra shims so I can build any stack, was thinking something similar to yours, like this just to make the slow speed a bit harder, what other options i could use with different shims?

21.1
21.1
12.1
19.1
17.1
15.1
13.1
11.1- clamp

the rest bellow besides the 20.1
3/12/2017 9:56am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2017 9:58am
slipdog wrote:
Are you using a shaft clamp to hold it in the vice or just putting the cartridge between the vice jaws? You look to have drilled...
Are you using a shaft clamp to hold it in the vice or just putting the cartridge between the vice jaws?

You look to have drilled far enough, but you could go in another millimeter or so on each to make sure. The key is holding it securely with clamps and heat. After 25 years they can be stubborn.
haven't tried with a vice yet, using a rod through the 4 holes at the bottom of the cartridge, I know it is an unorthodox way but my options are limited, could find a vice with soft clamps but doubt I could get a shaft clamp for this, will have a look at suspension shop's might help me out, i'm so excited with this so i'm using basic tools and my wife's kitchen so i'm trying to be discrete!

Kinda sad that i cannot get it out as is, was thinking to leave it as is and remove the rebound valve nut by locking the other side of the shaft with two nuts but then i doubt I could get the nut back on the shaft properly so do not want to mess it up.

@Henkies,
will try that out too as soon as i find a good vice Wink
slipdog
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Location
Nor Cal, CA US
3/12/2017 11:45am
Thank you, I've access to extra shims so I can build any stack, was thinking something similar to yours, like this just to make the slow...
Thank you,
I've access to extra shims so I can build any stack, was thinking something similar to yours, like this just to make the slow speed a bit harder, what other options i could use with different shims?

21.1
21.1
12.1
19.1
17.1
15.1
13.1
11.1- clamp

the rest bellow besides the 20.1
Technically, yours would be a little softer because with all things being equal the smaller od the shim is the more rigid(stiffer) it is. The 20 will give just a little more support to the 21 than two 21's, but the difference is so small that I doubt you would be able to notice much difference, if at all. Either one would be a good place to start to see if you get what your looking for and you can make adjustments from there.
3/12/2017 11:48am
thank you slipdog, you've got a point there thought it works the other way around, live and learn they say!

3/14/2017 8:12pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2017 8:50pm
ok managed to get the cartridge disassembled, needed a good vice plus extra lock at the bottom using the 4 blow-off holes! The rod is out and here is the stock rebound/mid valve stack

Rebound (from piston to bottom)
21 x 0.10 (5 shims!)
20 x 0.10
18 x 0.10
16 x 0.10
14 x 0.10
12 x 0.10
10 x 0.10

Mid valve
22 x 0.10 (5 shims)

--------------------------------

Thinking to create a two stage using a 14.10 shim between the five 21.10 shims and remove two 21.10 (one for the crossover) or remove the 20.10 instead, what you guys think, is it an ok starting point? Any rebound/mid valve re-valving recommendations are welcome for my kind of use as above would be helpful, thanks!
Henkies
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72
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Location
NF
8/27/2017 1:31pm Edited Date/Time 8/27/2017 1:32pm
Hi ByronKotetsis,

Do you mean that there were used 5 shims of 21 x 0.10 ?
I'm making my fork stock now and bought another cartridge, which appears to have a 2 stage stack. Are you sure yours is original?
8/30/2017 12:34am
Henkies wrote:
Hi ByronKotetsis, Do you mean that there were used 5 shims of 21 x 0.10 ? I'm making my fork stock now and bought another cartridge...
Hi ByronKotetsis,

Do you mean that there were used 5 shims of 21 x 0.10 ?
I'm making my fork stock now and bought another cartridge, which appears to have a 2 stage stack. Are you sure yours is original?
Yes at the rebound valve.

And yes both compression and rebound valves were stock because both lock nuts were still pined from the factory so I had to file them prior disassembly.

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