YZ250 Crank Seized

levipigg
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Edited Date/Time 12/4/2019 10:57am
Little bit of info: I was riding my YZ250 this weekend in Baja and on our way back to camp, we were on a long stretch of highway when my bike died. It sounded like I ran out of gas but when I went to kick it over, it was seized. I also realized after it happened that I was low on coolant.

I took off the top end (it looked fine) but the rod doesn’t move on the crankshaft. I can tell something melted around where the rod meets the crankshaft.

My question is: what would cause this type of failure? I originally thought that it was because I was low on coolant but looking at it, it doesn’t look like the coolant is even able to cool the crank. I was thinking I may not have had enough premix in my gas (I had 40:1 but I know it asks for 32:1). I just want to prevent it from happening again if I can.
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FGR01
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11/26/2019 6:05pm
What type of premix oil?

Also, motocross engines are not designed for extended high-speed operation.

What year YZ250 and what size main jet?
levipigg
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11/26/2019 6:10pm
FGR01 wrote:
What type of premix oil?

Also, motocross engines are not designed for extended high-speed operation.

What year YZ250 and what size main jet?
2003, I’m using Belray Si-7, I’m not sure on the size of the main jet, I’ll try opening it tonight and posting it here.
11/26/2019 6:34pm
Could have just been time on the crank, the premix ratio, or your jetting. I've always run 32:1 on my 02. When in the desert I'll often cheat just slightly rich on my main. If your crank was low hour, I'd guess it was a combo of the premix and jetting.

I've known a few old school desert guys who will go so far as rigging a cable for a handlebar reachable choke on their two strokes to enrichen their mixture on long straights.
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levipigg
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11/26/2019 7:12pm
Could have just been time on the crank, the premix ratio, or your jetting. I've always run 32:1 on my 02. When in the desert I'll...
Could have just been time on the crank, the premix ratio, or your jetting. I've always run 32:1 on my 02. When in the desert I'll often cheat just slightly rich on my main. If your crank was low hour, I'd guess it was a combo of the premix and jetting.

I've known a few old school desert guys who will go so far as rigging a cable for a handlebar reachable choke on their two strokes to enrichen their mixture on long straights.
Thanks for the reply, I’ll be sure to use the 32:1 ratio from now on. I’ve never bothered messing with the jetting on my 125 so that’s all new to me, I’m just researching on the forums. And that’s really interesting about the choke on the handlebar!

The Shop

NiekL
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11/26/2019 11:49pm
It's not the ratio, but the hours on the crank.
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levipigg
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11/27/2019 12:59am
FGR01 wrote:
What type of premix oil?

Also, motocross engines are not designed for extended high-speed operation.

What year YZ250 and what size main jet?
The main jet says 178S.
11/27/2019 4:24am
Probably alot of time on crank, big end end bearing goes and usually plastic stuffers melt, you can get crank rebuilt with oem or by a new one
11/27/2019 7:02am
FGR01 wrote:
What type of premix oil?

Also, motocross engines are not designed for extended high-speed operation.

What year YZ250 and what size main jet?
levipigg wrote:
The main jet says 178S.
If you had a 178 main, it was most likely just time on the crank as that isn't crazy lean and 40:1 isnt that far off 32:1. I'm running a 180 and 32:1.

If you are spending more time in the desert and less on a track, consider doing the 3rd-5th WR gear swap while you have cases split for the crank. You can find them used on Ebay if needed on a budget. Basically the new 250X transmission spread and making long high speed runs in the desert much easier (and the 250F's will no longer walk away from you on top.)
Falcon
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11/27/2019 9:12am
I would go 32:1 if you are using Si-7. That product is primarily an injector oil, so it is thinner. (As an aside, I've had really good results with Bel-Ray H1R at 40:1 in my YZ250.)

Another thing you can do instead of adding a choke cable, is to remember to hit your kill switch every now and then with the throttle open. You'll interrupt the spark for a few revolutions and the unburnt fuel/air mixture will cool down the whole works. (Only do this while you are riding down long straights for longer stretches of time, otherwise you'll just make a lot of excess spooge.)
levipigg
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11/27/2019 2:53pm
If you had a 178 main, it was most likely just time on the crank as that isn't crazy lean and 40:1 isnt that far off...
If you had a 178 main, it was most likely just time on the crank as that isn't crazy lean and 40:1 isnt that far off 32:1. I'm running a 180 and 32:1.

If you are spending more time in the desert and less on a track, consider doing the 3rd-5th WR gear swap while you have cases split for the crank. You can find them used on Ebay if needed on a budget. Basically the new 250X transmission spread and making long high speed runs in the desert much easier (and the 250F's will no longer walk away from you on top.)
I’ve been researching what you suggested and sounds like a good idea, I’ll have to see if I can get the parts while I have the engine apart.
levipigg
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11/27/2019 2:54pm
Falcon wrote:
I would go 32:1 if you are using Si-7. That product is primarily an injector oil, so it is thinner. (As an aside, I've had really...
I would go 32:1 if you are using Si-7. That product is primarily an injector oil, so it is thinner. (As an aside, I've had really good results with Bel-Ray H1R at 40:1 in my YZ250.)

Another thing you can do instead of adding a choke cable, is to remember to hit your kill switch every now and then with the throttle open. You'll interrupt the spark for a few revolutions and the unburnt fuel/air mixture will cool down the whole works. (Only do this while you are riding down long straights for longer stretches of time, otherwise you'll just make a lot of excess spooge.)
I’ll have to try that premix and that idea about hitting the kill switch when on long stretches.
11/27/2019 3:03pm
Excessive heat. Look at how the crank stuffers have melted away around the crank pin, not to mention the bluing of the crank halves. Some injector oils say not for premix right on the label.
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Falcon
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11/27/2019 3:21pm
Excessive heat. Look at how the crank stuffers have melted away around the crank pin, not to mention the bluing of the crank halves. Some injector...
Excessive heat. Look at how the crank stuffers have melted away around the crank pin, not to mention the bluing of the crank halves. Some injector oils say not for premix right on the label.
Si-7 says it can be used as a premix, but I've always preferred the premix-only oils for that.

Injector oils usually have a thinner in them so they don't clog injectors. That, or they have unusually low viscosities. Either way, the film strength isn't as high as it could be. This is why I recommend a heavier ratio when mixing them, but even that doesn't really fix the film strength; it just (hopefully) makes up for it with "more" film.

X2 on the heat diagnosis. That bottom-end heated up and seized.
Matt Fisher
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11/28/2019 4:01pm
Si-7 has a flashpoint of 194 F, which is quite low. It makes for a fine oil in a woods bike, or one ridden at low rpm's. Not a good choice for going WFO down some fireroad.

For reference, Bel Ray MC1 is 208 F, Bel Ray H1R is 435 F, Maxima Super M is 280 F, and Motul's 800 has a whopping 485 F flashpoint (slow trail riders running the Motul would have exhaust drool like a 6 month old baby with a mouth full of Oreo's).
garagedog
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11/28/2019 5:27pm
How long were you holding it wide open?
levipigg
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11/28/2019 9:49pm
garagedog wrote:
How long were you holding it wide open?
I wasn’t even wide open, I was maybe 3/4 throttle in 5th gear, purposely keeping the RPMs down, and it was about 5 minutes. I was following my friend in a RZR so I would adjust my speed to his, so it wasn’t really consistent.
levipigg
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11/28/2019 9:51pm
Si-7 has a flashpoint of 194 F, which is quite low. It makes for a fine oil in a woods bike, or one ridden at low...
Si-7 has a flashpoint of 194 F, which is quite low. It makes for a fine oil in a woods bike, or one ridden at low rpm's. Not a good choice for going WFO down some fireroad.

For reference, Bel Ray MC1 is 208 F, Bel Ray H1R is 435 F, Maxima Super M is 280 F, and Motul's 800 has a whopping 485 F flashpoint (slow trail riders running the Motul would have exhaust drool like a 6 month old baby with a mouth full of Oreo's).
Yea, Falcon said he uses H1R, I think I’m going to try using that.
YZed250
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12/2/2019 9:23am
It looks like it got hot at some point. Rebuild crank and replace support side bearings with OEM. More than likely ran too long. Good oil and the right ratio (40:1 or 30:1) will help, but that's not the whole picture. Most important is the jetting (which carries cold fuel and oil to the crank) and the number of hours on the bearing.

When a crank wears out and the rollers start to fall out of the cage, naturally there is a lot of grinding and extra heat. That blue color on the crank halves is from the factory (don't worry about that), but the melted plastic crank stuffers need to be replaced and show some signs of being lean.

Good/lean jetting has the bike running really good, but long stretches of straight away are really hard on the bikes. I'm not saying your last run was what killed it.
It might have been that the crank was waiting to fail when you got the bike.
levipigg
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12/2/2019 6:31pm
YZed250 wrote:
It looks like it got hot at some point. Rebuild crank and replace support side bearings with OEM. More than likely ran too long. Good oil...
It looks like it got hot at some point. Rebuild crank and replace support side bearings with OEM. More than likely ran too long. Good oil and the right ratio (40:1 or 30:1) will help, but that's not the whole picture. Most important is the jetting (which carries cold fuel and oil to the crank) and the number of hours on the bearing.

When a crank wears out and the rollers start to fall out of the cage, naturally there is a lot of grinding and extra heat. That blue color on the crank halves is from the factory (don't worry about that), but the melted plastic crank stuffers need to be replaced and show some signs of being lean.

Good/lean jetting has the bike running really good, but long stretches of straight away are really hard on the bikes. I'm not saying your last run was what killed it.
It might have been that the crank was waiting to fail when you got the bike.
I appreciate the info! I was thinking of just getting a new crank since the stuffers got messed up too. It’s $307 for a new crank assembly or $167 to rebuild (including a new rod) + labor to rebuild since I don’t think I could do that myself. Let me know what you think. I’ll also be sure to get new bearings and seals.
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FWYT
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12/2/2019 9:58pm
levipigg wrote:
I appreciate the info! I was thinking of just getting a new crank since the stuffers got messed up too. It’s $307 for a new crank...
I appreciate the info! I was thinking of just getting a new crank since the stuffers got messed up too. It’s $307 for a new crank assembly or $167 to rebuild (including a new rod) + labor to rebuild since I don’t think I could do that myself. Let me know what you think. I’ll also be sure to get new bearings and seals.
Yeah, after you get the crank rebuild kit (OEM!) and add in the labor, it's not much more to just get the crank.
That's what I did last time and then at my leisure, when I had a few extra bucks, I sent the old crank off to Crankworks to get rebuilt. Now I have a spare ready to go!

BTW, if you decide you don't want to get into dealing with fixing the bike, maybe let me know. I'm looking for a project fixer. Laughing
12/3/2019 5:28am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2019 5:31am
I always prefer to rebuild with OEM bearings and cranks when possible. You can save a little money with a Hot Rods or Weisco crank, but some folks have reported issues and there are some long internet threads about it. I've never experienced or witnessed an issue with their cranks in the YZ, but some folks have pretty strong opinions. OEM is always preferable, budget allowing.

Call up Crank Works to see what they would charge to rebuild your crank. My guess with labor and shipping, you are near a new OEM crank in cost. If you have someone local, that will save you some money. Generally about $100 labor in my experience in CA.

I would strongly suggest you check your engine vin number. Your dealer or an internet source can verify the year.
The cranks changed very slightly from 99-01, 01-02, 03-current. Taper on the flywheel side. It's not uncommon for older YZs to have an engine from another year in the frame.

Good luck with your rebuild!
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YZed250
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12/4/2019 10:57am
levipigg wrote:
I appreciate the info! I was thinking of just getting a new crank since the stuffers got messed up too. It’s $307 for a new crank...
I appreciate the info! I was thinking of just getting a new crank since the stuffers got messed up too. It’s $307 for a new crank assembly or $167 to rebuild (including a new rod) + labor to rebuild since I don’t think I could do that myself. Let me know what you think. I’ll also be sure to get new bearings and seals.
I sent you a PM. I am headed past your area on Friday evening and I have a crank with some good useable stuffers that would make a good core.
levipigg
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12/4/2019 5:30pm
I always prefer to rebuild with OEM bearings and cranks when possible. You can save a little money with a Hot Rods or Weisco crank, but...
I always prefer to rebuild with OEM bearings and cranks when possible. You can save a little money with a Hot Rods or Weisco crank, but some folks have reported issues and there are some long internet threads about it. I've never experienced or witnessed an issue with their cranks in the YZ, but some folks have pretty strong opinions. OEM is always preferable, budget allowing.

Call up Crank Works to see what they would charge to rebuild your crank. My guess with labor and shipping, you are near a new OEM crank in cost. If you have someone local, that will save you some money. Generally about $100 labor in my experience in CA.

I would strongly suggest you check your engine vin number. Your dealer or an internet source can verify the year.
The cranks changed very slightly from 99-01, 01-02, 03-current. Taper on the flywheel side. It's not uncommon for older YZs to have an engine from another year in the frame.

Good luck with your rebuild!
Thanks for the tip! I called up Yamaha and they said the engine is a 2003.

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