Wheel building

lcgordon711
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lcgordon711
Couple questions. I am building some wheels and I have done it before but not much. I am struggling with the final bit. I put it together and tried my best to turn all equally and had some tension on the spokes and it was pretty straight. Then I went though and did my 3 laps of the wheel getting all the spokes to 25in lb then to 30 in lb. I worked the wheel a tad to get it pretty straight. Then trying to go to 40 in lb. I just can’t. Once I try to fix the little wobbles some spokes are not as tight as others. Then when I go around with the torque wrench to get them all the same it pulls the rim out of line again. I can get it straight when not all the spokes are same torque but getting them all the same torque and straight is not easy for me. Any tips
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FGR01
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FGR01 4/10/2020 7:26am
4/10/2020 7:26am
...and this is why I don't use a spoke torque wrench, lol. Seriously though, when you are doing your laps to pull it in evenly or to bring each spoke up to next tension level, are you doing like every 3rd or every 5th spoke? That's what I do. It has to be an odd number that has you hitting a different group of spokes on each lap. Usually every 5th spoke on a 36 spoke wheel. If you do every single spoke sequentially it can pull the wheel out of true. Also, some rims are just naturally easier to true than others, even the same brand/model of rim. Some will easily true with equal tension while some it's damn near impossible to achieve both.
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lcgordon711
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lcgordon711 4/10/2020 7:34am
4/10/2020 7:34am
Yeah I’m doing every 3rd. 3 laps and you got em. I just don’t get the torque wrench part. How you get them all the same tightness and get it straight.

From what I would think you would have to do every nipple the same amount of turns every time tightening every spoke at the same rate. If it’s out of true you have to start over.

Because simplifying it down think about your bar clamp top caps. Tighten one down to torque then the other down and the cap is leaning way to the first bolt. Then you have to loosen all the way up and straighten them and then tighten if you wanted the gaps to be even. Same thing for a wheel just on a way bigger scale.

But it has to be possible or they would not sell 100 dollar spoke wrenches. So somebody has to know where I’m going wrong
FGR01
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FGR01 4/10/2020 7:40am
4/10/2020 7:40am
Your logic assumes the rim is perfectly true and symmetrical in its native state. It is not.

Again, this is why I don't use a torque wrench. Because it will have you chasing something that is not always attainable. At the end of the day, if the wheel is true and the spokes are all "pretty damn close" in tension, you are good to go.
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lcgordon711
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lcgordon711 4/10/2020 7:43am
4/10/2020 7:43am
FGR01 wrote:
Your logic assumes the rim is perfectly true and symmetrical in its native state. It is not. Again, this is why I don't use a torque...
Your logic assumes the rim is perfectly true and symmetrical in its native state. It is not.

Again, this is why I don't use a torque wrench. Because it will have you chasing something that is not always attainable. At the end of the day, if the wheel is true and the spokes are all "pretty damn close" in tension, you are good to go.
I get that and I probably will end up doing that but I feel there has to be some sort of technique or something to make it a little easier or something. I don’t know. And I did not know they rims were not straight from out the box. I never thought of that

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lcgordon711
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lcgordon711 4/10/2020 8:12am
4/10/2020 8:12am
Maybe I just get them all to 40 in lb or 38 then true from there and hope they all get closer to the desired 45 in lb
lcgordon711
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lcgordon711 4/15/2020 10:49am
4/15/2020 10:49am
FGR01 wrote:
Already watched that. I get how to build a wheel and do everything but keeping the wheel straight while using a torque wrench is what I don’t get. But oh well does not seem that important
AJ565
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AJ565 4/15/2020 1:39pm
4/15/2020 1:39pm
I had that problem on my front wheel when I built it. I marked every 3rd spoke just to check and if I went that way I ended up tightening the same spokes every lap and bypassing the other spoaks. 36 spokes on the KTM divided by 3 is 12. So that didn't work out and neither did doing one pass every 3rd, moving over one and doing another pass every 3rd and the same on the last pass. I ended up with a few spokes torqued on one side and loose ones on the other then when tightened pulled the wheel way off to one side.

What I ended up doing was to tighten all the nipples by hand and once I got to the point of needing a wrench I'd turn every spoke 1/4 turn and do a few laps, adjust the straightness where or if needed then did a few more laps at 1/4 turn. I did that until all the spokes were torqued to 48in. lbs. and the wheel was still straight.
FWYT
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FWYT 4/15/2020 8:27pm
4/15/2020 8:27pm
I've always wondered the same thing for the same reasons as the OP when doing wheels. Because there is naturally going to be some variance between spoke tensions, no? So what I've been doing is using the torque wrench to get it up near the final desired rate, but then finishing to true without worrying about a little variance. Just kinda seems like that's how it would have to go.

Someone sneak a camera into Dubya and give us the secrets! hahaha

Also, it seems a torque wrench is kind of worthless after the initial build what with crud getting in there and throwing a true reading off, right?
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AJ565
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AJ565 4/15/2020 9:22pm
4/15/2020 9:22pm
FWYT wrote:
I've always wondered the same thing for the same reasons as the OP when doing wheels. Because there is naturally going to be some variance between...
I've always wondered the same thing for the same reasons as the OP when doing wheels. Because there is naturally going to be some variance between spoke tensions, no? So what I've been doing is using the torque wrench to get it up near the final desired rate, but then finishing to true without worrying about a little variance. Just kinda seems like that's how it would have to go.

Someone sneak a camera into Dubya and give us the secrets! hahaha

Also, it seems a torque wrench is kind of worthless after the initial build what with crud getting in there and throwing a true reading off, right?
Technically adding anti-seize to the spokes changes the torque values.
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FWYT
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FWYT 4/15/2020 10:01pm
4/15/2020 10:01pm
AJ565 wrote:
Technically adding anti-seize to the spokes changes the torque values.
Well, that too. But at least there a constant in the initial tightening.

BTW man, nice frigging Camaro!! Holy crap, that's some work!!
kieran_macca 4/15/2020 11:11pm
4/15/2020 11:11pm
Prioritize one over the other. Either you want the wheel trued perfect or you want all the spokes torqued 'to spec'.
I would choose to prioritise trueness.
lcgordon711
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lcgordon711 4/16/2020 5:39am
4/16/2020 5:39am
Thanks guys for all the help. Most ppl on here want you to torque every bolt exactly so I always thought it was the same for spokes but now I know that’s not really true. Thanks
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AJ565
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AJ565 4/16/2020 6:19am
4/16/2020 6:19am
FWYT wrote:
Well, that too. But at least there a constant in the initial tightening.

BTW man, nice frigging Camaro!! Holy crap, that's some work!!
I've been checking torque for a few motos after the build and there have been less and less lose spokes. I think the anti-seize helps keep the crud out of the threads at least for a while.

Thank you, someday it will run lol.
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