What does a day of suspension tuning look like?

Wiztardo
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I have some very general and probably stupid questions that I am hoping some experienced folks can help provide some input on.

When tuning suspension for someone who is not fast- what are you trying to achieve? (Is it the same as tuning for a very fast rider?) Is it safe to say that the overall goal you are trying to accomplish is to make the bike as comfortable (plush/ soft?) and predictable as possible without it ever bottoming out? I understand there is probably much more in regard to the overall chassis to alter that comes down to rider choice with whatever they are comfortable with... But for the average person who is not scary fast on a motocross track- they arrive with a brand new bike, bone stock, sag is set, tire pressure is set, sprung to their weight, they are warmed up and ticking off laps. What is the next step? Is it all just rider preference from that point forward? What are you looking for in particular? How do you know what is too harsh through breaking bumps? Or how much dive is too much dive when braking, etc?

I have read from other threads, one of the best things an inexperienced person can do when trying to learn how to tune their own suspension is to crank up or down some settings and go ride a few laps just to see what they do. But that idea always sort of weirded me out.

Am I better off just keeping all clickers down the middle and focusing on riding enough that I can clearly identify what I am wanting out of the bike before making any changes?
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seth505
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2/17/2021 12:32pm
I think you answered most of your questions but the goal is to tailor the bike to the rider. As you know, if I'm a 150 lb B rider, my setup is not going to be optimal for a 150 lb A rider or even a 200 lb C rider.

My take would be to start at a normal starting point which is what you mentioned: Tire pressure set, bike properly sprung for rider weight, forks at OEM height in clamps, sag set, bars & controls at comfortable position for the rider and clickers at OEM stock settings.

I don't see much use in 'tweaking' things right away for a slower rider. They start to know what they need as they gain speed and confidence.
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SPYGUY
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2/17/2021 1:08pm
So many people think that bottoming out is to be avoided at all cost, but that’s just plain wrong. If you never bottom your suspension, then what’s the point of even having that much travel?
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GoYamaha
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2/17/2021 2:00pm
SPYGUY wrote:
So many people think that bottoming out is to be avoided at all cost, but that’s just plain wrong. If you never bottom your suspension, then...
So many people think that bottoming out is to be avoided at all cost, but that’s just plain wrong. If you never bottom your suspension, then what’s the point of even having that much travel?
Your absolutely right, the key is to have it bottom at most once or twice a lap on an odd obstacles like sending a single way out and not checking up on it, but when it bottoms not to have a harsh bottom and to have it become predictable and not wrecking havoc on your hands. Kind of like a small thud not a bang. Hard to explain.
Ryan
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2/18/2021 7:37am
Biggest thing that helped me as a lowly local B level rider was doing blind tests with someone. We started as said above with correct springs, sag, fork height, fresh suspension oil, tire pressure per manufacturer or "base line" setting. Then the tuner literally would make certain changes without my knowledge; I would ride, give feedback of what I felt, had someone scribe these in a book next to what changes he made, then at end of the day sat down and looked at what changes were made and what feeling I had.

From there, we found a setting that gave that balance of rigidity/hold up vs plushness, cornering vs stability, etc. Similar to what your wrote, the blind changes were usually on a big scale; lots of clicks in or out, lots of turns on the low speed on shock, and so forth. I also got a copy of the "suspension bible" and have listened to things from ML512.

Some bikes too are sensitive to sag measurements, so we went through what that felt like as well (AER forks and some of the Yamaha 450Fs of previous years in regards to pitching or weight transfer). Just do your research.

The fact is MOST stock suspension on modern bikes will get the average rider within 90%, save for changes with springs. Yes, some limitations to AER forks and the BFRC on Suzuki, otherwise you can get close without spending a ton of $$$, just understanding what particular changes do to the bike and some simple physics.
6

The Shop

Wiztardo
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2/19/2021 6:14am
Very much appreciate the advice, guys. Based on this, and from my memory last season, my bike is too harsh and firm for my speed. I don't think I regularly come close to using the full stroke, and breaking/ accelerating bumps were super harsh. This coming season is the season I start toying with my clickers. I'm excited.
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Leeham
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2/19/2021 10:31am
I just try to tune it with clickers so for when I am riding, I am not dwelling on my suspension feels and more focused on where I am going. It wont feel perfect everywhere but being comfortable and in control is what matters to me
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Pirate421
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2/19/2021 12:20pm
One of the best pieces of advice a suspension tuner told me when starting out is make only one adjustment at a time (I.e. fork comp or reb) and make that adjustment a big swing. Not 1-2 clicks but more like 5 clicks. Reason being a lot of people, myself and my old riding buddies included still argue over if the feeling we are getting is rebound or compression related. When you make a big adjustment you will be able to tell much easier if that’s the problem and if you just made it worse or better. Once you figure that out work your way back from the 5 clicks and the ideal setting should be in the middle of where you started at and that 5 click adjustment. Hopefully that makes sense.
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kijen
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2/23/2021 4:51pm
Put a zip tye on your lower fork tube and see how much travel you are using, will help decide which way to go?
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sandtrack315
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2/23/2021 6:51pm
SPYGUY wrote:
So many people think that bottoming out is to be avoided at all cost, but that’s just plain wrong. If you never bottom your suspension, then...
So many people think that bottoming out is to be avoided at all cost, but that’s just plain wrong. If you never bottom your suspension, then what’s the point of even having that much travel?
GoYamaha wrote:
Your absolutely right, the key is to have it bottom at most once or twice a lap on an odd obstacles like sending a single way...
Your absolutely right, the key is to have it bottom at most once or twice a lap on an odd obstacles like sending a single way out and not checking up on it, but when it bottoms not to have a harsh bottom and to have it become predictable and not wrecking havoc on your hands. Kind of like a small thud not a bang. Hard to explain.
Ryan
Absolutely wrong. Bottoming should be reserved for mistakes / huge hits. Sometime you will think your suspension is harsh, but really it’s too soft and sitting too far down in the stroke. Softer isn’t always smoother. Enzo always gives me suspension settings a bit stiffer than other companies run but it’s always smooth as butter because it’s riding high in the stroke, where it’s soft.

Stiffer suspension will inspire confidence and make you want to push the bike. The actual feeling you get when a fork is too stiff is when you skate around in turns and on lean angles. Shock is too stiff on the low speed when you feel it being slippery. Again, harshness is usually from something being too soft. Lack of traction is too hard.
1
chump6784
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AU
2/27/2021 1:09am
If braking bumps are harsh try going stiffer on your compression. It's likely your forks are riding low in the stroke and therefore in the harder part of the valving. Also, try going out on your rebound to make sure the forks aren't packing.
2

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