Switching fuels to VPR -storage?

murph783
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murph783
So I’m gonna give VPR a shot in my 2020 YZ450, it says clearly on it do not store in vehicle, drain carb after use. I remember having to do that back in the day with U4 in carb bikes, but what’s the deal with newer stuff? The dealer said he just leaves it in his tank without issue, but I want some more opinions from the vital brain trust
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FWYT
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FWYT 6/16/2021 12:03pm
6/16/2021 12:03pm
I always drain mine. Interested to hear what others do.
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 6/16/2021 12:27pm
6/16/2021 12:27pm
Says the same on T2 and I've never bothered draining it.

I think those disclaimers are carry over from when fuel had reactives in
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murph783
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murph783 6/16/2021 8:23pm
6/16/2021 8:23pm
Well I dumped er in, and my riding schedule is sporadic at best, will report with my findings

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dmm698
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dmm698 6/17/2021 12:06pm
6/17/2021 12:06pm
Bruce372 wrote:
Says the same on T2 and I've never bothered draining it.

I think those disclaimers are carry over from when fuel had reactives in
It probably wont gum stuff up like the old U4 did - but

It is an oxygenated fuel. If you are jetted / mapped appropriately, and the fuel sits exposed to ambient you will have a rich condition with the oxy depleted fuel.

If you're just pouring T2 into your bike, and you arent like +2 sizes on the main, then you're lean with fresh fuel and probably good with the stale stuff.

Not sure why some would spend money on 5 gal pales of race fuel and not map/jet appropriately. C12 to T2 in a tom morgan yz250 was +2 on the main.

The spec sheet shows oxy content and the stoich for the fuel, both VPR and T2 / T4 are a fair amount below 14.7 so really marketing them as a "pour in" replacement is silly.
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murph783
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murph783 6/18/2021 7:05am
6/18/2021 7:05am
Bruce372 wrote:
Says the same on T2 and I've never bothered draining it.

I think those disclaimers are carry over from when fuel had reactives in
dmm698 wrote:
It probably wont gum stuff up like the old U4 did - but It is an oxygenated fuel. If you are jetted / mapped appropriately, and...
It probably wont gum stuff up like the old U4 did - but

It is an oxygenated fuel. If you are jetted / mapped appropriately, and the fuel sits exposed to ambient you will have a rich condition with the oxy depleted fuel.

If you're just pouring T2 into your bike, and you arent like +2 sizes on the main, then you're lean with fresh fuel and probably good with the stale stuff.

Not sure why some would spend money on 5 gal pales of race fuel and not map/jet appropriately. C12 to T2 in a tom morgan yz250 was +2 on the main.

The spec sheet shows oxy content and the stoich for the fuel, both VPR and T2 / T4 are a fair amount below 14.7 so really marketing them as a "pour in" replacement is silly.
Honest question is there any really way to map for these fuels without a dyno? I’m just running some out of the box maps in my 450. TP 3.0 and TP5, they don’t make any mention of fuel type on the yamaha site.
dmm698
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dmm698 6/18/2021 7:08am
6/18/2021 7:08am
Bruce372 wrote:
Says the same on T2 and I've never bothered draining it.

I think those disclaimers are carry over from when fuel had reactives in
dmm698 wrote:
It probably wont gum stuff up like the old U4 did - but It is an oxygenated fuel. If you are jetted / mapped appropriately, and...
It probably wont gum stuff up like the old U4 did - but

It is an oxygenated fuel. If you are jetted / mapped appropriately, and the fuel sits exposed to ambient you will have a rich condition with the oxy depleted fuel.

If you're just pouring T2 into your bike, and you arent like +2 sizes on the main, then you're lean with fresh fuel and probably good with the stale stuff.

Not sure why some would spend money on 5 gal pales of race fuel and not map/jet appropriately. C12 to T2 in a tom morgan yz250 was +2 on the main.

The spec sheet shows oxy content and the stoich for the fuel, both VPR and T2 / T4 are a fair amount below 14.7 so really marketing them as a "pour in" replacement is silly.
murph783 wrote:
Honest question is there any really way to map for these fuels without a dyno? I’m just running some out of the box maps in my...
Honest question is there any really way to map for these fuels without a dyno? I’m just running some out of the box maps in my 450. TP 3.0 and TP5, they don’t make any mention of fuel type on the yamaha site.
We played around with my 19 kx450, I had a map I was happy with, and we just made some global percentage changes across the board to compensate for the stoich differences, and half of that difference. Not as scientific as I would like, but at the end of the day the dyno doesn't ultimately make better lap times anyways. Its being comfortable. With a map I liked, and T4 (before altering it for t4), the bike felt really erratic down low. It "felt" fast because it was urkey but super hard to ride. I forget what I settled on as far as an addition. The stock setups suck anyways because its all just +/-, there is no unit associated to it.
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FGR01
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FGR01 6/18/2021 9:30am
6/18/2021 9:30am
Another thing to consider when not draining some of these fuels is where you store your bike. I am pretty headache prone from strong chemical smells. If I leave some of these fuels in a bike and it's in my garage it will stink the whole house out. I can't even leave some of the pales in my garage. They seep enough stink to bother me. I've had to leave MR PRO-6, U4.4, and others outside.
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Rickyisms
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Rickyisms 6/18/2021 9:38am
6/18/2021 9:38am
FGR01 wrote:
Another thing to consider when not draining some of these fuels is where you store your bike. I am pretty headache prone from strong chemical smells...
Another thing to consider when not draining some of these fuels is where you store your bike. I am pretty headache prone from strong chemical smells. If I leave some of these fuels in a bike and it's in my garage it will stink the whole house out. I can't even leave some of the pales in my garage. They seep enough stink to bother me. I've had to leave MR PRO-6, U4.4, and others outside.
We haven't ran MRX02 in about a year and I can still smell it in my garage.
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murph783
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murph783 6/18/2021 10:07am
6/18/2021 10:07am
FGR01 wrote:
Another thing to consider when not draining some of these fuels is where you store your bike. I am pretty headache prone from strong chemical smells...
Another thing to consider when not draining some of these fuels is where you store your bike. I am pretty headache prone from strong chemical smells. If I leave some of these fuels in a bike and it's in my garage it will stink the whole house out. I can't even leave some of the pales in my garage. They seep enough stink to bother me. I've had to leave MR PRO-6, U4.4, and others outside.
Rickyisms wrote:
We haven't ran MRX02 in about a year and I can still smell it in my garage.
I, luckily don’t generally have an issue with that. I will say though when transferring from the pail to a gas can so I could pour it in…my eyes were definitely burning lol
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dmm698
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dmm698 6/18/2021 10:56am
6/18/2021 10:56am
FGR01 wrote:
Another thing to consider when not draining some of these fuels is where you store your bike. I am pretty headache prone from strong chemical smells...
Another thing to consider when not draining some of these fuels is where you store your bike. I am pretty headache prone from strong chemical smells. If I leave some of these fuels in a bike and it's in my garage it will stink the whole house out. I can't even leave some of the pales in my garage. They seep enough stink to bother me. I've had to leave MR PRO-6, U4.4, and others outside.
Rickyisms wrote:
We haven't ran MRX02 in about a year and I can still smell it in my garage.
murph783 wrote:
I, luckily don’t generally have an issue with that. I will say though when transferring from the pail to a gas can so I could pour...
I, luckily don’t generally have an issue with that. I will say though when transferring from the pail to a gas can so I could pour it in…my eyes were definitely burning lol
man somebody left an empty (some tiny residual you couldnt pour out) with no cap on it pale of Renegade SX4+ or something about 50 feet across the pit lane from us at the track one time, good god it was strong.
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murph783
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murph783 6/22/2021 5:21pm
6/22/2021 5:21pm
So just a quick update, spoke to someone in the tech support department at VP, and they claim it’s good for up to 6 months in the bike. Hopefully I ride a touch more often than that, so this won’t even be an issue. Bike definitely runs better on it! Went out Sunday and monkeyed around with some settings and it’s noticeably crisper response on bottom.
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exbmxmx
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exbmxmx 6/25/2021 9:52am
6/25/2021 9:52am
It's not the oxygenates that cause the storage problems in these fuels (VPR/MRXo2/U4), it's the presence of Isoprene and other olefin compounds that will turn into gum eventually. VP and other fuel manufactures use inhibitors to slow that reaction rate but once that inhibitor is used up, then the gum formation start to happen fast. The higher the temperature that you store the fuel the faster the inhibitor is consumed. Atmospheric oxygen also promotes the gum formation, so keep the lid tight.
We either drain the fuel out of the bowl and tank and then add a half gallon of pump/C10 or T4 and run the bike for a few minutes. Or for the last ride of the day we simply fill the bike with a non reactive fuel like T4 or pump/C10.
Generally, if the fuel smells like you just entered the Supercross arena on Saturday, then it should be drained after use at some point. T4/C10/C12/110 fuels do not have those reactive compounds so no need to drain after use.
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murph783
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murph783 6/25/2021 12:50pm
6/25/2021 12:50pm
exbmxmx wrote:
It's not the oxygenates that cause the storage problems in these fuels (VPR/MRXo2/U4), it's the presence of Isoprene and other olefin compounds that will turn into...
It's not the oxygenates that cause the storage problems in these fuels (VPR/MRXo2/U4), it's the presence of Isoprene and other olefin compounds that will turn into gum eventually. VP and other fuel manufactures use inhibitors to slow that reaction rate but once that inhibitor is used up, then the gum formation start to happen fast. The higher the temperature that you store the fuel the faster the inhibitor is consumed. Atmospheric oxygen also promotes the gum formation, so keep the lid tight.
We either drain the fuel out of the bowl and tank and then add a half gallon of pump/C10 or T4 and run the bike for a few minutes. Or for the last ride of the day we simply fill the bike with a non reactive fuel like T4 or pump/C10.
Generally, if the fuel smells like you just entered the Supercross arena on Saturday, then it should be drained after use at some point. T4/C10/C12/110 fuels do not have those reactive compounds so no need to drain after use.
I actually may end up switching to T4, just to be extra safe. Assuming it runs as well, why not?
FGR01
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FGR01 6/25/2021 5:16pm
6/25/2021 5:16pm
exbmxmx wrote:
It's not the oxygenates that cause the storage problems in these fuels (VPR/MRXo2/U4), it's the presence of Isoprene and other olefin compounds that will turn into...
It's not the oxygenates that cause the storage problems in these fuels (VPR/MRXo2/U4), it's the presence of Isoprene and other olefin compounds that will turn into gum eventually. VP and other fuel manufactures use inhibitors to slow that reaction rate but once that inhibitor is used up, then the gum formation start to happen fast. The higher the temperature that you store the fuel the faster the inhibitor is consumed. Atmospheric oxygen also promotes the gum formation, so keep the lid tight.
We either drain the fuel out of the bowl and tank and then add a half gallon of pump/C10 or T4 and run the bike for a few minutes. Or for the last ride of the day we simply fill the bike with a non reactive fuel like T4 or pump/C10.
Generally, if the fuel smells like you just entered the Supercross arena on Saturday, then it should be drained after use at some point. T4/C10/C12/110 fuels do not have those reactive compounds so no need to drain after use.
What about light? Doesn't exposure to light or UV also break down some of the compounds so storing in an opaque container helps slow this?
mxb2
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mxb2 6/25/2021 8:04pm
6/25/2021 8:04pm
Store in cool ,dark.area if possible and off the ground.
exbmxmx
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exbmxmx 6/26/2021 7:43am
6/26/2021 7:43am
FGR01 wrote:
What about light? Doesn't exposure to light or UV also break down some of the compounds so storing in an opaque container helps slow this?
Yep. UV also is an energy contributor to aid in kicking off those dimerization gum forming reactions. Like mxb2 said, keep it stored in a dark cool place, preferably in the original container.

Rickyisms
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Rickyisms 6/28/2021 2:43pm
6/28/2021 2:43pm
exbmxmx wrote:
It's not the oxygenates that cause the storage problems in these fuels (VPR/MRXo2/U4), it's the presence of Isoprene and other olefin compounds that will turn into...
It's not the oxygenates that cause the storage problems in these fuels (VPR/MRXo2/U4), it's the presence of Isoprene and other olefin compounds that will turn into gum eventually. VP and other fuel manufactures use inhibitors to slow that reaction rate but once that inhibitor is used up, then the gum formation start to happen fast. The higher the temperature that you store the fuel the faster the inhibitor is consumed. Atmospheric oxygen also promotes the gum formation, so keep the lid tight.
We either drain the fuel out of the bowl and tank and then add a half gallon of pump/C10 or T4 and run the bike for a few minutes. Or for the last ride of the day we simply fill the bike with a non reactive fuel like T4 or pump/C10.
Generally, if the fuel smells like you just entered the Supercross arena on Saturday, then it should be drained after use at some point. T4/C10/C12/110 fuels do not have those reactive compounds so no need to drain after use.
murph783 wrote:
I actually may end up switching to T4, just to be extra safe. Assuming it runs as well, why not?
T4 is a solid fuel for that bike.

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