Suspension and triple clamp gurus please help!

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5/15/2020 2:01 PM

So I bought a set of bud racing triple clamps for a 2005 rm125. They look great the top and bottom clamps are right but the stem is 9.525mm longer. Figured that may not be a problem so I bolted them up to see. I figured out I run out of threads when I tightened down the spanner nut and have about 1/8 up and down play. I tried fixing that with a washer under spanner nut which worked. Next put the top clamp on an it seems funny to me that there is a space between top clamp and spanner nut as my stock clamp sat tight to the spanner nut. My question is would it be bad to put a 9.5mm thick spacer under the spanner nut then top clamp? Would this change the feel and handling of the bike. I am aware by having the clamps that way I would have to lower my forks in the clamps to have same ride height but I don’t want to change the handling or front end feel In a negative way. I have been super picky of how the front end of my bike feels since 80s so I’m worried I will notice it if it will indeed change something. I’m unaware of the effects of having the clamps be about 10mm spread farther than stock. Also would it cause any strength issues? Thanks in advance

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5/15/2020 2:35 PM

ecmx274 wrote:

So I bought a set of bud racing triple clamps for a 2005 rm125. They look great the top and bottom clamps are right but the stem is 9.525mm longer. Figured that may not be a problem so I bolted them up to see. I figured out I run out of threads when I tightened down the spanner nut and have about 1/8 up and down play. I tried fixing that with a washer under spanner nut which worked. Next put the top clamp on an it seems funny to me that there is a space between top clamp and spanner nut as my stock clamp sat tight to the spanner nut. My question is would it be bad to put a 9.5mm thick spacer under the spanner nut then top clamp? Would this change the feel and handling of the bike. I am aware by having the clamps that way I would have to lower my forks in the clamps to have same ride height but I don’t want to change the handling or front end feel In a negative way. I have been super picky of how the front end of my bike feels since 80s so I’m worried I will notice it if it will indeed change something. I’m unaware of the effects of having the clamps be about 10mm spread farther than stock. Also would it cause any strength issues? Thanks in advance

10mm is a good amount, but it probably won't be a big deal from a stiffness/strength standpoint. If anything, it should make it a little stiffer. But the clamps themselves are probably less stiff than stock, so it might be a wash. I doubt most people would notice it.

Keep in mind that you'll be pushing everything else up 10mm too - bar mounts, number plate mounting points, etc. Your best bet is to get the correct stem pushed in if you can make that happen.

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Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Motocross Components Engineered for Performance

5/15/2020 2:57 PM

ecmx274 wrote:

So I bought a set of bud racing triple clamps for a 2005 rm125. They look great the top and bottom clamps are right but the stem is 9.525mm longer. Figured that may not be a problem so I bolted them up to see. I figured out I run out of threads when I tightened down the spanner nut and have about 1/8 up and down play. I tried fixing that with a washer under spanner nut which worked. Next put the top clamp on an it seems funny to me that there is a space between top clamp and spanner nut as my stock clamp sat tight to the spanner nut. My question is would it be bad to put a 9.5mm thick spacer under the spanner nut then top clamp? Would this change the feel and handling of the bike. I am aware by having the clamps that way I would have to lower my forks in the clamps to have same ride height but I don’t want to change the handling or front end feel In a negative way. I have been super picky of how the front end of my bike feels since 80s so I’m worried I will notice it if it will indeed change something. I’m unaware of the effects of having the clamps be about 10mm spread farther than stock. Also would it cause any strength issues? Thanks in advance

Luxon MX wrote:

10mm is a good amount, but it probably won't be a big deal from a stiffness/strength standpoint. If anything, it should make it a little stiffer. But the clamps themselves are probably less stiff than stock, so it might be a wash. I doubt most people would notice it.

Keep in mind that you'll be pushing everything else up 10mm too - bar mounts, number plate mounting points, etc. Your best bet is to get the correct stem pushed in if you can make that happen.

Thank you I did not think about the other stuff being pushed up.

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5/15/2020 4:03 PM

If anyone knows the length of an rmz steering stem let me know. I emailed bud and called but haven’t heard back. I have a feeling I’m going to be told it’s the right stem. I can’t press the stock stem in it. The stock stem is the right diameter to fit bottom clamp but top clamp will not slide past the threads. Stem nut is the same size but the stock stem gets larger after that and clamp won’t slide down. If the rmz stem is the same size I may be able to suggest that that they pressed a rmz stem in. I did contact emig racing he said he can make custom stems so that may be an option.

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5/15/2020 4:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/15/2020 4:20 PM

Can't you press out the stem from the old clamps and put it in the new clamps?

Paw Paw

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5/15/2020 4:37 PM

Paw Paw wrote:

Can't you press out the stem from the old clamps and put it in the new clamps?

Paw Paw

No it is right diameter to press into bottom clamp but the top clamp does not slide past the stem nut threads or I would have done that already.

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5/17/2020 1:02 PM

Paw Paw wrote:

Can't you press out the stem from the old clamps and put it in the new clamps?

Paw Paw

ecmx274 wrote:

No it is right diameter to press into bottom clamp but the top clamp does not slide past the stem nut threads or I would have done that already.

Worst case scenario bore out that top clamp a mm or two to get it to move further down

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5/17/2020 1:56 PM

I may have figured out the issue. I used a bearing race and seal for a 04 in which I thought they were the same. According to all balls site they are the same bearing but on Suzuki parts diagram they have a different part number. I think the seal is different maybe I ordered a set for 05 so we will see when it gets here. Pivot works also has different part numbers. I compared the bottom bearing and seals from 05 to 04 and they are exactly the same. Hopefully the top is different and it’s the right fix. Thanks to luxons post I checked the plastics and they fit as is so if the new top bearing an seal does not work my only option is a washer or custom stem. Bud USA contacted bud France to see if there’s anything they do differently. For now a washer fixed it. Don’t know if having a washer under the spanner nut is a problem I’m probably being to picky Photo

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5/17/2020 2:29 PM

The space that also worries me is this one. Stock clamp sat tight to spanner nut and this one does not. I am not sure if this is an issue? Easily fixed with a spacer . I was just worried about strength. Photo

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5/17/2020 6:44 PM

ecmx274 wrote:

The space that also worries me is this one. Stock clamp sat tight to spanner nut and this one does not. I am not sure if this is an issue? Easily fixed with a spacer . I was just worried about strength. Photo

It needs to sit on the spanner nut for sure. Or on a spacer. But as shown in the photo is a no go.

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Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Motocross Components Engineered for Performance

5/17/2020 7:16 PM

ecmx274 wrote:

The space that also worries me is this one. Stock clamp sat tight to spanner nut and this one does not. I am not sure if this is an issue? Easily fixed with a spacer . I was just worried about strength. Photo

Luxon MX wrote:

It needs to sit on the spanner nut for sure. Or on a spacer. But as shown in the photo is a no go.

That’s what I figured I’m assuming to help keep the nut from backing off? If the top bearing race and seal is not the issue I’m not so sure a custom stem would fix the issue due to the plastics fitting. Is a spacer ok where I have the washer on top of the seal? I could probably have a real tall spanner nut made I guess.

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5/18/2020 7:05 AM

Is there a chance the stem was pressed to far into the lower clamp?

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5/18/2020 7:09 AM

ecmx274 wrote:

That’s what I figured I’m assuming to help keep the nut from backing off? If the top bearing race and seal is not the issue I’m not so sure a custom stem would fix the issue due to the plastics fitting. Is a spacer ok where I have the washer on top of the seal? I could probably have a real tall spanner nut made I guess.

Yeah, you need to keep the clamp on the spanner nut (or spacer to spanner nut) to keep it all tightened down. It's also stronger as there's more area in contact with the clamp.

If you determine that you have all the right bearings, seals, and washers, you might be able to turn down the stem to make it all fit correctly, instead of trying to make a new one or some other solution.

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Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Motocross Components Engineered for Performance

5/18/2020 7:37 AM

charlie68 wrote:

Is there a chance the stem was pressed to far into the lower clamp?

No it’s flush at the bottom.

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5/18/2020 8:47 AM

Once the new top bearing and seal get here if that does not fix it I am going to see about having the stem turned down or whatever it needs done to be corrected. Thanks for the help I’m glad I asked because I may have ran it with just the washer. It’s crazy that I bought a clamp that’s made for my bike and it’s not fitting I feel like I have to be doing something wrong.

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5/22/2020 4:46 AM

So I did receive the new bearings and seals last night. Top bearing and seal was different and it solved the issue of the spanner nut tightening down. It did not solve the space from the top clamp to the spanner nut though. It did make the space only 4mm. When I get a chance I’m going to try some different spanner nuts and see if I have a thicker one. I have a good feeling it’s the wrong nut. Here’s a picture of the different seals 1st pic is the wrong one. Photo
Photo

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5/22/2020 4:52 AM

Could you have the stem pressed further into the lower clamp to make up the difference?

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No brains, No headaches.

5/22/2020 5:26 AM

Keith72 wrote:

Could you have the stem pressed further into the lower clamp to make up the difference?

Bud pressed it in. It looks like its about 1mm to far I’m going to press it flush see if it fixes it. I think with the mm and a new nut it may be right. This spanner nut was in bad shape and they were on back order so I had it polished and anodized at one point. I’m thinking they may have taken off a few mm when polishing it. Weird thing is none of this matters on the stock clamp. It works with the 1st set of bearings and this spanner nut.

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5/22/2020 7:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2020 7:58 AM

You have me confused. Wouldn't pressing the stem down eliminate the space between the spanner nut and the top clamp? Or did they put the wrong stem in there. Can you measure it and compare it to the stock stem?

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No brains, No headaches.

5/22/2020 9:07 AM

Do not change the press of the stem. It should be pressed in until it stops as there should be a flange or wire ring on the stem to stop it axially. Pressing it to some other position and riding with it that way is dangerous.

Make sure the stem is pressed all the way in (it sounds like it is). Make sure that you have all the right bearings, nuts, and spacers and all installed in the correct order. If it doesn't fit up with all that, then something is wrong with the design of the stem/clamps or you have the wrong stem/clamps for the application.

You can likely "fix" the issue by adding a spacer or turning down the stem, but the right fix is to get the correct parts for your bike. Have you contacted Bud about all this?

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Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Motocross Components Engineered for Performance

5/22/2020 9:11 AM

Keith72 wrote:

You have me confused. Wouldn't pressing the stem down eliminate the space between the spanner nut and the top clamp? Or did they put the wrong stem in there. Can you measure it and compare it to the stock stem?

The stem is only pressed into the clamp about 1mm to far so yes it would close the gap up by 1mm. Still leaves about 3mm of a gap. I measured it and the stem is close to 10mm longer. The stock stem will not fit the top clamp so I can not use the stock stem. I contacted bud USA and they said it’s the correct stem as far as they know but they contacted bud France anyway and waiting to here back. I think the design of the clamp requires it to be longer because it’s made to except 2020 plastics and right now the plastics fit perfect.

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5/22/2020 9:19 AM

Luxon MX wrote:

Do not change the press of the stem. It should be pressed in until it stops as there should be a flange or wire ring on the stem to stop it axially. Pressing it to some other position and riding with it that way is dangerous.

Make sure the stem is pressed all the way in (it sounds like it is). Make sure that you have all the right bearings, nuts, and spacers and all installed in the correct order. If it doesn't fit up with all that, then something is wrong with the design of the stem/clamps or you have the wrong stem/clamps for the application.

You can likely "fix" the issue by adding a spacer or turning down the stem, but the right fix is to get the correct parts for your bike. Have you contacted Bud about all this?

Thank you I was about to press it flush. I am waiting to here from bud. I agree on getting the correct parts. I was trying everything I could To make sure it’s not my wrong doing. Bearings and seals are now right. The only thing it can be now is the wrong spanner nut so I ordered a new one so we will see. If it is the right one then they gave me the wrong stem or it’s a design flaw.

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7/3/2020 6:12 AM

So I still have not heard anything from bud France. I had a spacer made but I am unsure if it will work. Everything is tight now no gaps. My concern is when I tighten the spanner nut down it locks the nut so the stem turns inside the nut. Should the nut spin with the stem when I turn or should it lock into place? I feel like that with the stem turning inside the nut it will cause the threads to strip or wear out but I may be wrong. Thanks Photo

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7/3/2020 6:53 AM

I think you should have a small washer on top of the spanner nut. The stem turning in the nut doesn't sound right.

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7/3/2020 12:32 PM

What do you mean by the stem turning inside the nut? Is the stem spinning in the triple clamp? If it is, then that's a serious problem. It should be pressed in tight and not spin at all.

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Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Motocross Components Engineered for Performance

7/4/2020 7:33 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/4/2020 7:37 AM

soggy wrote:

I think you should have a small washer on top of the spanner nut. The stem turning in the nut doesn't sound right.

A washer isn't required on top of the spanner nut in most cases. The once the spanner nut is tightened, and before the top clamp is installed, the stem will turn inside the spanner nut. Once the top clamp is installed, and its retaining nut is torqued down, the stem will no longer rotate in the spanner nut

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Many thanks to everyone helping me out this GNCC season: SRT Offroad, Acerbis, FCR Suspension, O'Neal Racing, Evans Waterless Coolants, Rekluse, Twin Air, Braking Brakes, Carbsport

Profile image credit Ken Hill Photography

7/4/2020 3:54 PM

There is a difference in the height of the head tube on RM and RMZ models. I beleive there is also a diiference between RMZ model years. I had a 2007, 2010 and 2013 RMZ450. I had RG3 20mm clamps that I swapped over to each new bike. I think I remember the stem length being different on the 2013. The bearings are all the same. My memory isn't clear but I think the stem was 10mm longer on the later model bikes.

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7/4/2020 5:15 PM

OLDMOTO wrote:

There is a difference in the height of the head tube on RM and RMZ models. I beleive there is also a diiference between RMZ model years. I had a 2007, 2010 and 2013 RMZ450. I had RG3 20mm clamps that I swapped over to each new bike. I think I remember the stem length being different on the 2013. The bearings are all the same. My memory isn't clear but I think the stem was 10mm longer on the later model bikes.

Yea unfortunately I think it’s a design flaw and they use the same stem for multiple bikes but I haven’t been able to get ahold of bud France to find out. I’m to the point I’m just going to buy some different clamps. I can’t use my stock stem because the top clamp is designed differently and won’t fit. I have tried everyone’s suggestions and I run into a new problem every time. These clamps do work but they have about 1mm up and down play and to me that’s scary so I was trying to fix that.

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