Still clutch problems after replacing the entire clutch..

Antoni-Berg
Hi guys,

I have a Suzuki rmz 250 2013. A couple of months ago i experienced some clutch problems. The bike didn't wanna go into neutral while running, and it was also "walking" when in gear with clutch pulled in. So it looked like the clutch was not fully disangaging. The issues got worse over time.
After some research online I found out that these symptoms most likley indicate a notched clutch basket. I opened up the clutch, and indeed, found a pretty badly notched both inner and outer basket. So i replaced them both with more solid parts: 7075T6 alloy billet basket and hub. I also replaced the clutch springs with some hevy duty springs to make the clutch last longer. The fiber and driven plates were still in good contidion so I let those be.
After I finished installing the new clutch parts and tested the bike, I got pretty dissapointed. The issues were still there. The bike was maybe a little bit easier to get into neutral while running, and the creeping was not as bad as it used to be, but still not near how its supposed to be. When the bike is off, in gear with clutch pulled in, its almost impossible to push it forwards. Also, sometimes it jumps out of neutral into gear, like if it wasnt properly in neutral in the first place.

So yeah im pretty confused. Thought the issues would be gone by now. Anyone know what the problem(s) may be?
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slipdog
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slipdog 8/29/2018 4:17pm
8/29/2018 4:17pm
Similar issues can arise if you have a bent/warped plate causing a bind in the clutch pack like it won't fully disengage.
harescrambled
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harescrambled 8/29/2018 5:50pm
8/29/2018 5:50pm
Buy new plates...both metal and friction plates. My best recommendation is a EBC carbon kit. In my opinion you only need HD springs if you're engine is built. If you follow this recommendation, do not ever run Pennzoil in the engine. If you do, you'll destroy the clutch...it'll slip like nobody's business. The problem with neutral being hard to get into/dropping into gear from neutral sounds like a shift detent spring issue. On the end of the shift drum there is an arm with a roller which engages with cutouts in the shift drum cap. If the spring on this arm becomes weak, or the roller gets sloppy, it will become very difficult to correctly find neutral. this can also result in the bike "falling into gear".

Good luck!
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 8/29/2018 6:13pm
8/29/2018 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 6:13pm
It should be hard to push in gear and with the clutch pulled in. That is the mechanical leverage of the transmission and the gear ratios involved, so don't expect to be able to do so. It is just the nature of the beast.
Also mentioned.... Bad clutch disk and steeles as well as the oil selected. All have a big effect on the clutch drag.

Paw Paw
BobPA
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BobPA 8/30/2018 4:12am
8/30/2018 4:12am
harescrambled wrote:
Buy new plates...both metal and friction plates. My best recommendation is a EBC carbon kit. In my opinion you only need HD springs if you're engine...
Buy new plates...both metal and friction plates. My best recommendation is a EBC carbon kit. In my opinion you only need HD springs if you're engine is built. If you follow this recommendation, do not ever run Pennzoil in the engine. If you do, you'll destroy the clutch...it'll slip like nobody's business. The problem with neutral being hard to get into/dropping into gear from neutral sounds like a shift detent spring issue. On the end of the shift drum there is an arm with a roller which engages with cutouts in the shift drum cap. If the spring on this arm becomes weak, or the roller gets sloppy, it will become very difficult to correctly find neutral. this can also result in the bike "falling into gear".

Good luck!
I’ve run Pennzoil 10w40 in my two stroke transmissions since 2000. Never had any clutch issues.

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Antoni-Berg 8/31/2018 4:14am
8/31/2018 4:14am
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
It should be hard to push in gear and with the clutch pulled in. That is the mechanical leverage of the transmission and the gear ratios...
It should be hard to push in gear and with the clutch pulled in. That is the mechanical leverage of the transmission and the gear ratios involved, so don't expect to be able to do so. It is just the nature of the beast.
Also mentioned.... Bad clutch disk and steeles as well as the oil selected. All have a big effect on the clutch drag.

Paw Paw
I am aware of that, but its not supposed to be as hard as it is now. The back wheel is almost completely blocked, and when trying to kick start it in gear with clutch pulled in the backwheel actually turns.
I'll try to replace fiber and metal plates and see it that helps.
Mx 117
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Mx 117 8/31/2018 7:45am
8/31/2018 7:45am
Should always replace the fibers, plates, and springs when replacing basket or inner hub.
Also check the pressure plate to see if the springs put a groove in it.
Highflier
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Highflier 9/1/2018 10:06pm
9/1/2018 10:06pm
Assuming the cable is pulling the clutch arm properly, check your clutch push rod that runs thru the center of the clutch.
Also check the end piece the push rod sits in.
If slightly bent, the push rod will not let the clutch disengage properly when you pull in the lever.
harescrambled
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harescrambled 9/2/2018 7:25pm
9/2/2018 7:25pm
BobPA wrote:
I’ve run Pennzoil 10w40 in my two stroke transmissions since 2000. Never had any clutch issues.
That problem seems to be specific to EBC carbon clutch plates. Never had issues with Pennzoil and any other plates....just the EBC carbon
Kristen_Valentino 9/3/2018 5:41pm
9/3/2018 5:41pm
You can buy an extra washer that sits between clutch push rod holder and pressure plate, gives more adjustment, Suzuki Part# 09181-12016, had similar problem with kx250f, after switching to hinson setup and magura, if I remember right there about $2

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