New KTM85sx delivered w/o premix...

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2/12/2018 7:33 AM

I just took delivery of a brand new 2018 KTM 85sx for my son on Saturday. After making the deal, we pushed the bike to the truck and fire it up and let it warm up for a few minutes and then shut it off and took it home. When we got home we fired it up again for a few minutes and then shut it back off. We never rode it or rev'd it hard. So when I start race prepping the bike, I poured the fuel out of the tank into fuel jug that had old premix (I burn the old premix in the generator and lawn equipment). As I was pouring the fuel out I noticed how clear the fuel looked. Now to my knowledge, I have never found a two stroke premix oil that mixes clear, maybe I'm wrong but I can only assume that the bike was delivered from the dealer without premix oil added.
My question is what might be the damage? Brand new engine that has been started only twice for a total run time of less than 5 minutes without high revs. I'm hoping KTM coats the bearings in the engine with some kind of assembly lube but I don't know that for sure.
Does anyone know of a clear mixing two stroke premix oil? The factory recommended ration is 40:1 so any dye/color of the oil should be clearly visible.

And in addition to the bike possibly not having premix, the front wheel axle pinch bolts were also loose. Not just loose but the 4 bolts were only threaded in a couple of thread and would have surely falling out after a quick ride.

Thanks,
Greg

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2/12/2018 7:46 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/12/2018 7:48 AM

exbmxmx wrote:

I just took delivery of a brand new 2018 KTM 85sx for my son on Saturday. After making the deal, we pushed the bike to the truck and fire it up and let it warm up for a few minutes and then shut it off and took it home. When we got home we fired it up again for a few minutes and then shut it back off. We never rode it or rev'd it hard. So when I start race prepping the bike, I poured the fuel out of the tank into fuel jug that had old premix (I burn the old premix in the generator and lawn equipment). As I was pouring the fuel out I noticed how clear the fuel looked. Now to my knowledge, I have never found a two stroke premix oil that mixes clear, maybe I'm wrong but I can only assume that the bike was delivered from the dealer without premix oil added.
My question is what might be the damage? Brand new engine that has been started only twice for a total run time of less than 5 minutes without high revs. I'm hoping KTM coats the bearings in the engine with some kind of assembly lube but I don't know that for sure.
Does anyone know of a clear mixing two stroke premix oil? The factory recommended ration is 40:1 so any dye/color of the oil should be clearly visible.

And in addition to the bike possibly not having premix, the front wheel axle pinch bolts were also loose. Not just loose but the 4 bolts were only threaded in a couple of thread and would have surely falling out after a quick ride.

Thanks,
Greg

Major damage could have been done. I would take the pipe off and look into the motor. Anything but perfect I would be taking it back to the dealership. The guys they have assemble new bikes are not the best mechanics. All of the KTM lube on the cylinder and bearings was burnt off in about 30 seconds

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2/12/2018 7:47 AM

With 5 mins of basically idle runtime i dont see any reason to expect any damage. Do a compression test. That will tell you if your cylinder is fucked or not. maybe run 32:1 for a tank of gas to let some oil settle in?

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2/12/2018 7:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/12/2018 8:03 AM

Maxima 927 is clear

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2/12/2018 7:59 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/12/2018 8:18 AM

I guess I will call the dealer tomorrow and first ask them what premix do they use to setup new bikes. And tonight I will pull off the pipe and take a look. grrrr

We typically use 32:1 anyways. Hoping for no damage as this was the last 2018 KTM 85 to be found locally.


g

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2/12/2018 9:09 AM

Penzoil is clear all most impossible to see when mixed.

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2/12/2018 9:47 AM

Thanks for the replies...

Any other clear premix oils out there? Clear two stroke premix oil doesn't make any sense to me.

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2/12/2018 11:15 AM

Shell branded two stroke oil. It's a pain if you forget to put a tag on the can and end up having to put otherwise decent fuel in garden machinery. Idle won't do any damage as road bikes with a pump run at 100:1, or less, at tick over. Some manuals even state not to bother with running any oil when priming the pump, if it has been run dry.

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2/12/2018 11:55 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/12/2018 11:57 AM

Spill a bit of that and regular gas on paper and let dry, if there is oil it should leave a greasier stain.

Edit: Oh I did not read that it is already gone. Well I guess you need to take dealer's word for it.

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2/12/2018 12:22 PM

Did you notice any smoke when it was running? check inside the pipe at the cylinder end, if it's has some oily residue it had premix. If its dry, well...

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2/12/2018 12:33 PM

Call the dealer. Tell them you just bought a bike and want to use the same premix they do. See what they say. If they say something that’s clear like 927, probably ok. If they say one of the ones with dye, start looking into taking it back...

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2/12/2018 12:47 PM

Same thing happened with m YZ 250. The dealer only ran for a min or so with out premix. It blew up after 3 hours. Put a top end in it its been fine ever since. Needless to say Im not allowed in their dealership any more.

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2/12/2018 1:46 PM

omalley wrote:

Call the dealer. Tell them you just bought a bike and want to use the same premix they do. See what they say. If they say something that’s clear like 927, probably ok. If they say one of the ones with dye, start looking into taking it back...

I think that is going to be my plan of action.

Regardless of the oil issue, which may or maybe not be an issue, the bike leaving the shop with the axle pinch bolts loose is an indication of their attention to detail.

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2/12/2018 2:16 PM

Pull the pipe and wipe the front of the piston with a paper towel to see if you can pull any oil off of it. If you get some, then nothing to worry about.
I'd also smear a little oil over the area you wiped off just to keep it coated for next start up.

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2/12/2018 5:42 PM

Amsoil Interceptor is also clear.

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2/12/2018 5:49 PM

Thanks for all the replies...hearing about all the clear 2 stroke oils will at least help me sleep better tonight. I will call the dealer tomorrow and find out for sure. Fingers crossed.

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2/12/2018 8:42 PM

I think youre fine. The gas probably had premix and you are being paranoid like we all get about these bikes! Call the dealer but yo7 are fine.

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2/13/2018 7:24 AM

Update:

I called the dealer and they said they use Motorex 2-stroke oil since that is what is called out in the 85 manual. After a quick internet search, the technical data sheet for the Motorex Power Synt 2T list the color as red, which the fuel I poured out of the bike was definitely not red. Does anyone have any actual experience with Motorex?

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2/13/2018 7:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/13/2018 7:43 AM

exbmxmx wrote:

Update:

I called the dealer and they said they use Motorex 2-stroke oil since that is what is called out in the 85 manual. After a quick internet search, the technical data sheet for the Motorex Power Synt 2T list the color as red, which the fuel I poured out of the bike was definitely not red. Does anyone have any actual experience with Motorex?

Ask the dealer if it colors it red. Did you save the gas you removed from the bike? There may be some still in the carb bowl.

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

2/13/2018 8:31 AM

Well I'd definitely be pissed off if I bought a brand new bike and had to worry about something like that. Sad to think you can't even really trust the dealership. If it was me, I'd pull the exhaust, like someone stated above. See if there's any wear on the piston from lean gas, and if there is, pull the cylinder off and assess the damage.. Best of luck

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2/13/2018 10:03 AM

awful situation to be in.. I ran my new to me stand up jetski (750cc two stroke) for prob 2-3 min in my driveway with no oil going to the motor.. I didn't realize the oil injection line had broken off and was dumping oil in the hull. even had a few good revs in there. no damage. rode it all summer after converting to premix. I just recently did a comp test was 170/170 psi.

one would assume everything is coated from the factory in oil, so even worse case scenario I don't think much damage would occur if any. good luck!

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2010 crf450
2002 cr125
1993 Yamaha waveblaster
1993 Kawasaki 750sx

2/13/2018 10:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/13/2018 10:40 AM

Yes- bad situation....however as the bike was brand new and your concerns of fuel having no oil- red colour (if applicable)... then simply ask to exchange bike for a new one.

If the dealer is adamant all is good then he just gets his 'good bike' back(if they agree to exchange) and you get what you paid for. i.e a 'new bike/ exchange without issues'... so far seems you have issues and concerns, which is highly understandable and I would be thinking exactly the same as you are.

I would ask for an exchange for another, given the circumstances. If premix has not been added, that should not be your problem but the dealers. Either way- if they have added premix, then its no problem for them- they can simply take the bike back and exchange it, knowing they can resell the bike you had was all good. Would think it is your right to ask for an exchange given the circumstances.

Goodluck with it all and can well understand the issues, which are worrying. When you thought you bought a faultless brand new machine. Maybe you did and pre-mix was added..., however if that is the case, then surely the dealer can replace bike with another machine to keep you happy and can resell the other bike, knowing there was not problems. To me it is their problem rather than yours.

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Always was an excellent rider ...... at crashing usually

Moto Aspes, you know you want one

2/13/2018 10:47 AM

a22 wrote:

Yes- bad situation....however as the bike was brand new and your concerns of fuel having no oil- red colour (if applicable)... then simply ask to exchange bike for a new one.

If the dealer is adamant all is good then he just gets his 'good bike' back(if they agree to exchange) and you get what you paid for. i.e a 'new bike/ exchange without issues'... so far seems you have issues and concerns, which is highly understandable and I would be thinking exactly the same as you are.

I would ask for an exchange for another, given the circumstances. If premix has not been added, that should not be your problem but the dealers. Either way- if they have added premix, then its no problem for them- they can simply take the bike back and exchange it, knowing they can resell the bike you had was all good. Would think it is your right to ask for an exchange given the circumstances.

Goodluck with it all and can well understand the issues, which are worrying. When you thought you bought a faultless brand new machine. Maybe you did and pre-mix was added..., however if that is the case, then surely the dealer can replace bike with another machine to keep you happy and can resell the other bike, knowing there was not problems. To me it is their problem rather than yours.

Man I wish it were that simple...this 85 seems to be the last one in our area. I went to another dealer first and was laughed at about them finding me an 85. Hell, what started the search in our case was the race we went to last weekend and all the new ktm/husky 85s in the gate.

I did contact the dealer and explained the situation to him and we both agreed that we will make some decisions about the situation after I pull off the pipe tonight. I just bought a scope that I will use tonight to inspect the cylinder walls too. I think the dealer understands the situation and seems to be willing to work with me. I just don't want to get 10-hours on the bike and the crank seize up, possibly sending my son on a ride that he didn't expect.

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2/13/2018 10:49 AM

Pop the head off and inspect? Would take all of about 1/2 hour and settle it once and for all. Then you could check deck height & squish as they are rarely optimal from factory anyway..............

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2/13/2018 10:58 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/13/2018 10:59 AM

exbmxmx wrote:

Man I wish it were that simple...this 85 seems to be the last one in our area. I went to another dealer first and was laughed at about them finding me an 85. Hell, what started the search in our case was the race we went to last weekend and all the new ktm/husky 85s in the gate.

I did contact the dealer and explained the situation to him and we both agreed that we will make some decisions about the situation after I pull off the pipe tonight. I just bought a scope that I will use tonight to inspect the cylinder walls too. I think the dealer understands the situation and seems to be willing to work with me. I just don't want to get 10-hours on the bike and the crank seize up, possibly sending my son on a ride that he didn't expect.

Aah- ok I see..rarity of 85cc etc.... only one left... you got the last one.

It does sound positive the dealer is working with you on it and is not ignoring the situation, so that is defo a goodthing.
Yes, hopefully with the dealers co-operation to sort the issue and maybe as others are saying with tech inspections you can sort it.

What is the story with the premix(red colour poss)- did you save any of the fuel or manage to get a sample out of carb?

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Always was an excellent rider ...... at crashing usually

Moto Aspes, you know you want one

2/13/2018 12:22 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/13/2018 12:22 PM

Happend to a new KTM 85 2018 in Sweden.
Sized in the Dyno room at the engine builder. Fuel was sent to a lab, result NO OIL !!!

Someone at the Ktm factory done wrong, not the dealer

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2/13/2018 1:16 PM

KTM is an awesome company, if you think there is a problem, call a Ktm rep & get a file started, bring back to dealer & discuss with them....if they say all is ok, race the shit out of it, if it blows up within a few hrs, they will handle it...as a side note, I would check my trans oil also! Whenever I get a new 2 stroke & put my own gas & oil in it before it is ridden.

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2/13/2018 1:27 PM

T2 is definitely red and is very noticeable in the gas. KTM ships there 4 strokes with gas in the tank I don't recall them shipping the two strokes that way , and All Ktm's are ran at the factory before being shipped.

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2/13/2018 1:29 PM

There are definately brands of oil for two stroke, that do not color the gasoline when mixed...I am not 100% so dont hold my word for it, but i think it was Castrol in my case....well whatever brand it was, i sure went back to Blue ray for the nice blue color (and it is a good oil btw), i am not taking any chances...

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2/13/2018 1:40 PM

IF it was me I would take it back to the dealer IMEDIATLY without doing anything. IF the set up guy messed up its on them and they will take care of it 100%

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