KYB insert vs Cone Valve

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2/21/2020 10:08 AM

Hi all,
I am in a really big thinking about fork improvement on my 19 ktm. To get cone valve or do kyb conversion, which is definietly much more cheaper. I have a free set of aer fork for the kyb conversion, so this a big advantage.

I need experience, comparison if somebody test both of them. I red lots of test, forum, but still could not take a decision.

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2/21/2020 11:49 AM

Did you read the Suspension section in Thumpertalk? https://thumpertalk.com/forums/forum/31-motorcycle-suspension/

There's a number of good threads on this. CVs often too stiff for the average Joe. Lots of guys go SSS. I went MX Tech Lucky after much reading.

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2/21/2020 12:10 PM

mx.david21 wrote:

Hi all,
I am in a really big thinking about fork improvement on my 19 ktm. To get cone valve or do kyb conversion, which is definietly much more cheaper. I have a free set of aer fork for the kyb conversion, so this a big advantage.

I need experience, comparison if somebody test both of them. I red lots of test, forum, but still could not take a decision.

I’m probably a good one to comment on this since I’ve had both and now own a set of cone valves.

At this moment I’d say the KYB conversion is better. The front end grip you get of these fork inserts is unbelievable, turned my bike into the best handling bike I’ve ever had.

I’m currently struggling to set up the cone valves, my tuner is going to re valve them and put different springs in and maybe a different cone (softer) So I’m hoping after this is done I’ll be a lot happier.

I ride in Belgium often and I’d say the cone valves are better in sand.

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2/21/2020 1:53 PM

Hammer 663s wrote:

Did you read the Suspension section in Thumpertalk? https://thumpertalk.com/forums/forum/31-motorcycle-suspension/

There's a number of good threads on this. CVs often too stiff for the average Joe. Lots of guys go SSS. I went MX Tech Lucky after much reading.

How do you like them?

I just bought a ‘16 FC350 and are looking at those. I’ve read some posts that people think they are on par with the KYB conversions, the ease of install and ability to remove and sell separate are selling me.

Then I read what Craig posted, and I want to go KYB as I love feeling connected to the tire...

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2/21/2020 2:07 PM

Hammer 663s wrote:

Did you read the Suspension section in Thumpertalk? https://thumpertalk.com/forums/forum/31-motorcycle-suspension/

There's a number of good threads on this. CVs often too stiff for the average Joe. Lots of guys go SSS. I went MX Tech Lucky after much reading.

UGOTBIT wrote:

How do you like them?

I just bought a ‘16 FC350 and are looking at those. I’ve read some posts that people think they are on par with the KYB conversions, the ease of install and ability to remove and sell separate are selling me.

Then I read what Craig posted, and I want to go KYB as I love feeling connected to the tire...

I’m tempted to sell my cones and go back to the KYB inserts. The way that front tyre was connected to the ground was so rewarding for confidence. And confidence brought me wayyyy more speed.

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2/21/2020 2:52 PM

kyb, lots of guys with cones hare having the cone vavle swapped for a normal stack etc.

kyb and you will love it.

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2/21/2020 3:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/21/2020 3:03 PM

UGOTBIT wrote:

How do you like them?

I just bought a ‘16 FC350 and are looking at those. I’ve read some posts that people think they are on par with the KYB conversions, the ease of install and ability to remove and sell separate are selling me.

Then I read what Craig posted, and I want to go KYB as I love feeling connected to the tire...

I don't know yet. MX Tech shipped them back today. smile I will know next weekend. But, all my reading points to the same results, whether Dal Saggio, CV, SSS, or MX Tech. The coil/oil twin cartridge conversions (open or closed chamber) give a way more plush, connected feel than air. I'm on air fork #2 (PSF1 and AER) and they both have the same problems that I have NOT been able to fix. Initial stiction, lack of feel, harsh midstroke are my complaints. Lots of potential solutions depending on your budget. I didn't want to spend Dal Saggio or CV money, and I didn't want a single-sided kit that leaves the AER damping. So I went Lucky Gen 1. The Gen 2 Lucky is out too. It's a closed cart dual leg kit for bigger/faster guys.

BTW, I'm on an 18 FC350. 185lb Vet intermediate.

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2/21/2020 7:05 PM

Either set up can be very good for you. I’d say it more depends on your suspension tuner you use.

Ive only heard good things about PowerBand racing for WP with vet riders in mind and Enzo for both types of forks.

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2/21/2020 7:08 PM

Either set up can be very good for you. I’d say it more depends on your suspension tuner you use.

Ive only heard good things about PowerBand racing for WP with vet riders in mind and Enzo for both types of forks.

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2/23/2020 12:28 PM

Thank you everybody for the feedback, probably I am going with kyb conversion smile

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2/23/2020 8:38 PM

Sorry to hijack your thread, has anyone done the Öhlins insert conversion? If so, what did you think??

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2/24/2020 5:19 AM

adam8781 wrote:

kyb, lots of guys with cones hare having the cone vavle swapped for a normal stack etc.

kyb and you will love it.

I did this with my Cones. The piston is already there, you just remove cone and cone adapter and replaces with mid-valve stack like a KYB. It's like having an A-Kit KYB because you have all the coatings and very similar internals. But saying this, I already had the Cone valves.

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

2/24/2020 12:45 PM

Mkerrwrench wrote:

Sorry to hijack your thread, has anyone done the Öhlins insert conversion? If so, what did you think??

We did the inserts on my son's 18 350SXF. He definitely prefers them over the AER forks, and we had tried a few revalves with them too. The AER did great over big hits, but lacked front end feel, particularly over small chop.

Not that the AER forks are bad, the spring stuff is simply better at this time.

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2/24/2020 2:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/24/2020 2:22 PM

mx.david21 wrote:

Thank you everybody for the feedback, probably I am going with kyb conversion smile

Give Jeremy a call at MX-Tech 815-936-6277. Talk to him about the lucky kit set up it is amazing for that bike, theu are every bit as good as cone valves and as better than my revalved stock kybs Worst case scenario they also do kyb conversions as well that includes Kit kyb cartridges So it's a one stop shop

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2/24/2020 2:21 PM

Mkerrwrench wrote:

Sorry to hijack your thread, has anyone done the Öhlins insert conversion? If so, what did you think??

Yes, 19 sx250

Photo

Öhlins cartridge kit and flow shock, still fiddeling around with the shock but have been riding with the cartridge kit for about 3 years now, all in a 13 sx250 and now this year in the new (for me) 19. Really good and confidence giving setup, just having a hard time setting up the shock.

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2/25/2020 8:27 AM

Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much cheaper than some of these set ups. I have a YZ in garage and TX300 I'm going to check tonight to see if the O.D. of the forks tubes are the same. I guess would also need to check fork length.

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2/25/2020 9:13 AM

Schlava wrote:

Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much cheaper than some of these set ups. I have a YZ in garage and TX300 I'm going to check tonight to see if the O.D. of the forks tubes are the same. I guess would also need to check fork length.

Fork tube diameters are different for sure, they wouldn't fit (correctly) into the KTM clamps. It's likely that the lug offset is different and the overall length is different too. Doing it correctly would require a lot of work.

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Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Motocross Components Engineered for Performance

2/25/2020 9:45 AM

Schlava wrote:

Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much cheaper than some of these set ups. I have a YZ in garage and TX300 I'm going to check tonight to see if the O.D. of the forks tubes are the same. I guess would also need to check fork length.

Luxon MX wrote:

Fork tube diameters are different for sure, they wouldn't fit (correctly) into the KTM clamps. It's likely that the lug offset is different and the overall length is different too. Doing it correctly would require a lot of work.

Yeah, if it was that simple there'd be no need for a KYB conversion kit. Offset, tube diameter, lugs, axles, brakes, wheels all a consideration. Some tubes can go in larger clamps with the correct shims but that's a band aid I'm not willing to use.

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2/25/2020 9:50 AM

Schlava wrote:

Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much cheaper than some of these set ups. I have a YZ in garage and TX300 I'm going to check tonight to see if the O.D. of the forks tubes are the same. I guess would also need to check fork length.

Luxon MX wrote:

Fork tube diameters are different for sure, they wouldn't fit (correctly) into the KTM clamps. It's likely that the lug offset is different and the overall length is different too. Doing it correctly would require a lot of work.

Hammer 663s wrote:

Yeah, if it was that simple there'd be no need for a KYB conversion kit. Offset, tube diameter, lugs, axles, brakes, wheels all a consideration. Some tubes can go in larger clamps with the correct shims but that's a band aid I'm not willing to use.

With the conversion kit, you’re using the stock WP outer tubes which are built to work better with the steel chassis. The KYB outer tubes are designed to work with the alloy frames. This is why we saw reed swap the internal’s on his husky from the kit outer tubes to the WP tubes.

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2/25/2020 9:58 AM

i have a set of ohlins rxf forks and they are night a day better in every department minus weight.... i have nothing to compare to other then the aer48's... i would love to try a set of kyb inserts to compare

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2/25/2020 11:38 AM

Mkerrwrench wrote:

With the conversion kit, you’re using the stock WP outer tubes which are built to work better with the steel chassis. The KYB outer tubes are designed to work with the alloy frames. This is why we saw reed swap the internal’s on his husky from the kit outer tubes to the WP tubes.

Yeah, the material and flex characteristics are different. I'm not good/fast enough to notice that, but I do notice the weight difference of the oil/coil conversion. I didn't weigh my AERs prior to the MX Tech Lucky Gen 1 swap, but I'm gonna say it's 2 lbs more now.

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2/26/2020 4:22 AM

Mkerrwrench wrote:

Sorry to hijack your thread, has anyone done the Öhlins insert conversion? If so, what did you think??

Yes, for offroad racing the ohlins is so much better. Front end feel and consistency is night and day better. Photo

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2/26/2020 5:35 AM

Schlava wrote:

Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much cheaper than some of these set ups. I have a YZ in garage and TX300 I'm going to check tonight to see if the O.D. of the forks tubes are the same. I guess would also need to check fork length.

I have a KYB fork with xtrig clamps and phds system.

I ran it in a 2017 Husqvarna TE300. It´s good. But the setup is too hard for my skillset. As I don´t feel like putting more money into it I´m back on WP cc forks with cone valve internals.

I am selling the fork. If nobody buys it I´ll just put it in my SXF 350 and give it another go.

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2/26/2020 8:32 AM

Schlava wrote:

Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much cheaper than some of these set ups. I have a YZ in garage and TX300 I'm going to check tonight to see if the O.D. of the forks tubes are the same. I guess would also need to check fork length.

lowbudget83 wrote:

I have a KYB fork with xtrig clamps and phds system.

I ran it in a 2017 Husqvarna TE300. It´s good. But the setup is too hard for my skillset. As I don´t feel like putting more money into it I´m back on WP cc forks with cone valve internals.

I am selling the fork. If nobody buys it I´ll just put it in my SXF 350 and give it another go.

The CV set up is not too stiff? Can’t imagine it’s much trouble getting the KYB set up soft and plush enough for you.

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2/26/2020 9:06 AM

Mkerrwrench wrote:

Sorry to hijack your thread, has anyone done the Öhlins insert conversion? If so, what did you think??

Dave538 wrote:

Yes, for offroad racing the ohlins is so much better. Front end feel and consistency is night and day better. Photo

what do you run setting wise with the forks? i have the same forks but stk shock.. coming from moto i need to change my settings....and what line do you run the forks at?

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2/26/2020 10:47 AM

Schlava wrote:

Has anyone ever tried to just install a set of YZ forks on their bike? Figure the forks and maybe front wheel would be so much cheaper than some of these set ups. I have a YZ in garage and TX300 I'm going to check tonight to see if the O.D. of the forks tubes are the same. I guess would also need to check fork length.

lowbudget83 wrote:

I have a KYB fork with xtrig clamps and phds system.

I ran it in a 2017 Husqvarna TE300. It´s good. But the setup is too hard for my skillset. As I don´t feel like putting more money into it I´m back on WP cc forks with cone valve internals.

I am selling the fork. If nobody buys it I´ll just put it in my SXF 350 and give it another go.

How much for the forks? Feel free to email me pics and price
autopainters2000@yahoo.com

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2/26/2020 1:06 PM

I have revalved aers on my 19 350 sx.Last weekend I got to try my suspension tuners personal kyb setup.Night and day improvement,hes now building me a set.

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insta @350_life

2/26/2020 3:20 PM

Mkerrwrench wrote:

Sorry to hijack your thread, has anyone done the Öhlins insert conversion? If so, what did you think??

Dave538 wrote:

Yes, for offroad racing the ohlins is so much better. Front end feel and consistency is night and day better. Photo

jonboy688 wrote:

what do you run setting wise with the forks? i have the same forks but stk shock.. coming from moto i need to change my settings....and what line do you run the forks at?

I had my suspension valved for me. I race 40A and have a HS/GNCC setting. I weigh 182lbs. I'm running my forks on the first line, .45 spring rate, 380 oil height with 0 preload. Comp. 16 out and rebound 13 out

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2/27/2020 7:31 AM

Just read a thread elsewhere that said the Dal Saggio spring conversion kit is 2.5lbs (!!!!) heavier than the MX Tech Lucky Gen 1 kit. Wonder what the KYB conversion weighs in at? All coil/oil will be heavier than a stock AER, and adding weight in the forks can really impact feel and handling.

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2/27/2020 7:50 AM

Hammer,

I went from the AER to the '20 Xact Pro spring forks on my '19 350. The added 2.5lb difference wasn't detrimental and the performance difference offset any weight gain. The Del Saggio being an additional 2.5 lbs heavier is concerning though.

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