KTM Hydraulic Clutch Issue

Jackace
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Jackace
Edited Date/Time 3/21/2017 3:19am
I am changing all the fluids in my 2014 KTM 250 SX. Right now I'm out of oil so the transmission is empty.

I have been working on the hydraulic clutch and changing the fluid. I was able to change the fluid fine just like I did the brakes, but I noticed after I was done that with the clutch engaged and the bike in gear the rear wheel will not spin. That tells me the clutch isn't working. I then took the slave cylinder off like in the Transworld video linked below. I followed his procedure for back bleeding and it looked good to me. I could even pull in the clutch and feel the piston moving. I put it all back together but still the rear wheel can't move with the clutch engaged. Is this normal when the bike has no transmission fluid or should I dig in more and investigate possible problems with the master cylinder?

Thanks for any help

Transworld video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZIb0Vya5p4
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Jackace
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Jackace 3/21/2017 12:27am
3/21/2017 12:27am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2017 2:12am
Well looks like I found the problem. The bottom bolt on the slave cylinder is partially stripped. The bolt goes in and gets a little tight, but then it breaks loose. I'm going to have to retap or get an insert for those threads. Anyone had that issue and is there enough engine material to support an insert or going up one size bolt without ruining the case?

Edit - Anyone had any luck with the loctite stripped thread repair kits for bolts like these?

Edit 2 - Another option I read about is putting a full thread stud in with red loctite and then just buy a nut. Since it isn't fully stripped and this bolt doesn't need a lot of torque this could probably work.
1
Tommywallbanger 11/1/2020 2:57pm
11/1/2020 2:57pm
Hey what direction did you end up going to fix your threads? I have a stripped bolt on my KTM's slave cylinder and I've researched the loctite and I'm thinking more along the time sert route. Just wondering if the stud with locktite trick works.
Jackace
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Jackace 11/1/2020 5:06pm
11/1/2020 5:06pm
I was able to use one of the inserts and get the standard bolt to hold. Those bolts don't need a lot of torque and I have removed it 3-4 times since doing the insert without an issue. Just put the red loctite on the insert and let it bond solid before you insert your bolt. I let mine sit overnight just to be sure the bolt didn't end up getting loctite in there.
Tommywallbanger 11/1/2020 5:20pm
11/1/2020 5:20pm
Cool man thanks for the update. Smart to wait a day before putting the bolt back in. No sense in rushing it When you say inserts did you use heli coles or time serts? What are the inserts? Stripping bolts is such a pain in the ass.

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Jackace
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Jackace 11/1/2020 5:37pm
11/1/2020 5:37pm
Heli-coil insert is what I used.
GaryC1
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GaryC1 11/2/2020 10:52am
11/2/2020 10:52am
Tommywallbanger wrote:
Hey what direction did you end up going to fix your threads? I have a stripped bolt on my KTM's slave cylinder and I've researched the...
Hey what direction did you end up going to fix your threads? I have a stripped bolt on my KTM's slave cylinder and I've researched the loctite and I'm thinking more along the time sert route. Just wondering if the stud with locktite trick works.
Similar thing happened to my Husky, what I ended up doing was just using a slightly longer bolt which did the job OK. I initially picked up a bolt that was a decent bit longer and just cut it back until it was just short enough to actually clamp the slave cylinder to the case but was slightly longer than the standard bolt so that it grabbed the remaining good threads.
Tommywallbanger 11/2/2020 11:49am
11/2/2020 11:49am
Tommywallbanger wrote:
Hey what direction did you end up going to fix your threads? I have a stripped bolt on my KTM's slave cylinder and I've researched the...
Hey what direction did you end up going to fix your threads? I have a stripped bolt on my KTM's slave cylinder and I've researched the loctite and I'm thinking more along the time sert route. Just wondering if the stud with locktite trick works.
GaryC1 wrote:
Similar thing happened to my Husky, what I ended up doing was just using a slightly longer bolt which did the job OK. I initially picked...
Similar thing happened to my Husky, what I ended up doing was just using a slightly longer bolt which did the job OK. I initially picked up a bolt that was a decent bit longer and just cut it back until it was just short enough to actually clamp the slave cylinder to the case but was slightly longer than the standard bolt so that it grabbed the remaining good threads.
That's a pretty good idea. Thanks. That's why I love these forums. I was already over looking easy fixes and thinking I needed to get a time sert or heli coil tapped in there. I know exactly what your saying. After I get done messing around with my attic fan I'm going to pop that bolt out and put a nail or something in the bolt hole to see how far in I can go before I bottom out and then get a bolt that will work. Cut it to size if I have to. I appreciate it.
GaryC1
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GaryC1 11/2/2020 3:28pm
11/2/2020 3:28pm
Tommywallbanger wrote:
That's a pretty good idea. Thanks. That's why I love these forums. I was already over looking easy fixes and thinking I needed to get a...
That's a pretty good idea. Thanks. That's why I love these forums. I was already over looking easy fixes and thinking I needed to get a time sert or heli coil tapped in there. I know exactly what your saying. After I get done messing around with my attic fan I'm going to pop that bolt out and put a nail or something in the bolt hole to see how far in I can go before I bottom out and then get a bolt that will work. Cut it to size if I have to. I appreciate it.
No problem my dude, it can be a great place when it wants to be! Thats a good idea about the nail, i screwed mine in then measured the gap from the screw face to the slave cylinder and cut that off, hope it works out for you dude and let me know how you get on! You're welcome as well Smile
Tommywallbanger 11/2/2020 5:04pm
11/2/2020 5:04pm
Tommywallbanger wrote:
That's a pretty good idea. Thanks. That's why I love these forums. I was already over looking easy fixes and thinking I needed to get a...
That's a pretty good idea. Thanks. That's why I love these forums. I was already over looking easy fixes and thinking I needed to get a time sert or heli coil tapped in there. I know exactly what your saying. After I get done messing around with my attic fan I'm going to pop that bolt out and put a nail or something in the bolt hole to see how far in I can go before I bottom out and then get a bolt that will work. Cut it to size if I have to. I appreciate it.
GaryC1 wrote:
No problem my dude, it can be a great place when it wants to be! Thats a good idea about the nail, i screwed mine in...
No problem my dude, it can be a great place when it wants to be! Thats a good idea about the nail, i screwed mine in then measured the gap from the screw face to the slave cylinder and cut that off, hope it works out for you dude and let me know how you get on! You're welcome as well Smile
Hey man I removed the bolt and stuck a long skinny bolt in the hole. 42 mm until it hits bottom. The bolt that was in it had 35 mm of thread. I'll get a longer bolt, grind it down to 40 mm of thread and see if that will hold.
1
Tommywallbanger 11/10/2020 6:42pm
11/10/2020 6:42pm
Tommywallbanger wrote:
That's a pretty good idea. Thanks. That's why I love these forums. I was already over looking easy fixes and thinking I needed to get a...
That's a pretty good idea. Thanks. That's why I love these forums. I was already over looking easy fixes and thinking I needed to get a time sert or heli coil tapped in there. I know exactly what your saying. After I get done messing around with my attic fan I'm going to pop that bolt out and put a nail or something in the bolt hole to see how far in I can go before I bottom out and then get a bolt that will work. Cut it to size if I have to. I appreciate it.
GaryC1 wrote:
No problem my dude, it can be a great place when it wants to be! Thats a good idea about the nail, i screwed mine in...
No problem my dude, it can be a great place when it wants to be! Thats a good idea about the nail, i screwed mine in then measured the gap from the screw face to the slave cylinder and cut that off, hope it works out for you dude and let me know how you get on! You're welcome as well Smile
Tommywallbanger wrote:
Hey man I removed the bolt and stuck a long skinny bolt in the hole. 42 mm until it hits bottom. The bolt that was in...
Hey man I removed the bolt and stuck a long skinny bolt in the hole. 42 mm until it hits bottom. The bolt that was in it had 35 mm of thread. I'll get a longer bolt, grind it down to 40 mm of thread and see if that will hold.
I finally got to ride my bike today and test everything out. No leaks detected after a short ride. I can't believe I didn't think to try using a longer bolt. I bought a 45 mm length and ground it down to 41 mm. It went in really hard at first so I filed a little taper in the end and it seems to be holding up well. My ride was cut short because my shift lever bolt loosened up. Oh man isn't it always something? Well thanks for loaning a couple brain cells over here. Ride on man!
GaryC1
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GaryC1 11/10/2020 11:30pm
11/10/2020 11:30pm
Tommywallbanger wrote:
I finally got to ride my bike today and test everything out. No leaks detected after a short ride. I can't believe I didn't think to...
I finally got to ride my bike today and test everything out. No leaks detected after a short ride. I can't believe I didn't think to try using a longer bolt. I bought a 45 mm length and ground it down to 41 mm. It went in really hard at first so I filed a little taper in the end and it seems to be holding up well. My ride was cut short because my shift lever bolt loosened up. Oh man isn't it always something? Well thanks for loaning a couple brain cells over here. Ride on man!
Awesome to hear dude! Cool glad to hear you got sorted but as you say there is always something lurking around the corner Pinch great news bud, happy riding too!
yz133rider
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yz133rider 11/11/2020 5:32am
11/11/2020 5:32am
GaryC1 wrote:
No problem my dude, it can be a great place when it wants to be! Thats a good idea about the nail, i screwed mine in...
No problem my dude, it can be a great place when it wants to be! Thats a good idea about the nail, i screwed mine in then measured the gap from the screw face to the slave cylinder and cut that off, hope it works out for you dude and let me know how you get on! You're welcome as well Smile
Tommywallbanger wrote:
Hey man I removed the bolt and stuck a long skinny bolt in the hole. 42 mm until it hits bottom. The bolt that was in...
Hey man I removed the bolt and stuck a long skinny bolt in the hole. 42 mm until it hits bottom. The bolt that was in it had 35 mm of thread. I'll get a longer bolt, grind it down to 40 mm of thread and see if that will hold.
Tommywallbanger wrote:
I finally got to ride my bike today and test everything out. No leaks detected after a short ride. I can't believe I didn't think to...
I finally got to ride my bike today and test everything out. No leaks detected after a short ride. I can't believe I didn't think to try using a longer bolt. I bought a 45 mm length and ground it down to 41 mm. It went in really hard at first so I filed a little taper in the end and it seems to be holding up well. My ride was cut short because my shift lever bolt loosened up. Oh man isn't it always something? Well thanks for loaning a couple brain cells over here. Ride on man!
For future attempts always thread a nut onto the bolt your going to cut down to size, thread it down past where you cut, and then after making your cut, loosen it up and run it past where you cut. It will clean up the threads on the way past.

It being hard to thread in was because the end was boogered up. You could have potentially cross threaded or boogered up your nicely done insert job.

But you didn’t and sounds like it’s stronger than ever now. Just an idea for the future. You can run the nut past the cut over and over until it goes by hand and then take a file to clean up any sharp edges if need be.

Tommywallbanger 11/11/2020 12:13pm
11/11/2020 12:13pm
yz133rider wrote:
For future attempts always thread a nut onto the bolt your going to cut down to size, thread it down past where you cut, and then...
For future attempts always thread a nut onto the bolt your going to cut down to size, thread it down past where you cut, and then after making your cut, loosen it up and run it past where you cut. It will clean up the threads on the way past.

It being hard to thread in was because the end was boogered up. You could have potentially cross threaded or boogered up your nicely done insert job.

But you didn’t and sounds like it’s stronger than ever now. Just an idea for the future. You can run the nut past the cut over and over until it goes by hand and then take a file to clean up any sharp edges if need be.

Yeah that is a good point yz133rider. I used one of those retapping nuts with the little grooves in to clean it up a bit but didn't mention that. I think my problem was that the end I ground off was not tapered at first but then I did go back and remove a little material and taper it down a bit. But yeah the ends were probably messed up because it had a long way to go before it bottomed out and was turning way to hard. I didn't want to use a file and remove too much thread so I spun my grinder by hand when shaving down the bolt to make a taper. When I cut threads on a schedule 40 pipe or something I will taper the end down I'm going to cut threads on before I even start cutting threads. It takes longer but makes it go in better.

Just out of curiosity is 133 your race number or do you have a 125 that's had the cylinder bored out?
yz133rider
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yz133rider 11/11/2020 12:55pm
11/11/2020 12:55pm
yz133rider wrote:
For future attempts always thread a nut onto the bolt your going to cut down to size, thread it down past where you cut, and then...
For future attempts always thread a nut onto the bolt your going to cut down to size, thread it down past where you cut, and then after making your cut, loosen it up and run it past where you cut. It will clean up the threads on the way past.

It being hard to thread in was because the end was boogered up. You could have potentially cross threaded or boogered up your nicely done insert job.

But you didn’t and sounds like it’s stronger than ever now. Just an idea for the future. You can run the nut past the cut over and over until it goes by hand and then take a file to clean up any sharp edges if need be.

Tommywallbanger wrote:
Yeah that is a good point yz133rider. I used one of those retapping nuts with the little grooves in to clean it up a bit but...
Yeah that is a good point yz133rider. I used one of those retapping nuts with the little grooves in to clean it up a bit but didn't mention that. I think my problem was that the end I ground off was not tapered at first but then I did go back and remove a little material and taper it down a bit. But yeah the ends were probably messed up because it had a long way to go before it bottomed out and was turning way to hard. I didn't want to use a file and remove too much thread so I spun my grinder by hand when shaving down the bolt to make a taper. When I cut threads on a schedule 40 pipe or something I will taper the end down I'm going to cut threads on before I even start cutting threads. It takes longer but makes it go in better.

Just out of curiosity is 133 your race number or do you have a 125 that's had the cylinder bored out?
Years and years ago I had a yz bored to 133 and I’ve just stuck with that name ever since for forums!

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