Husky/KTM Axle Blocks?

Luxon MX
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3/25/2020 10:53am
When using ride engineering crf axle on KTM's do you torque the axle bolt to KTM's manual specs or honda specs?
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of these parameters will be changed to the Honda stuff, so you should use the Honda torque values.
3
Motofinne
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3/26/2020 3:39am
When using ride engineering crf axle on KTM's do you torque the axle bolt to KTM's manual specs or honda specs?
Luxon MX wrote:
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of...
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of these parameters will be changed to the Honda stuff, so you should use the Honda torque values.
Am i out to lunch if i say i remember you "debunking" the theory behind the gains with the CRF rear axle?
Luxon MX
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3/26/2020 11:06am
Motofinne wrote:
Am i out to lunch if i say i remember you "debunking" the theory behind the gains with the CRF rear axle?
Yes, I've expressed extreme doubt that this has any noticeable effect. The only evidence that it does anything is rider feedback, which is massively subjective and prone to the placebo effect. No one has presented bench test results or analysis results showing any difference, and general engineering logic will tell you that there shouldn't be a difference.

The stock KTM rear axle is nothing more than a big flange bolt, washer, and nut. The Honda style is essentially replacing the flange bolt with a standard bolt and adding a washer. Both setups hold everything together, and so long as the torque is high enough to prevent movement (as it absolutely should be!), there should be no noticable difference between the two setups from a stiffness standpoint. Or in other words, there is nothing floating about a "floating axle". With everything properly tightened and held together, both setups will flex the same.

I've never had a problem adjusting chain tension as others are mentioning, but I've never personally used the stock KTM axle setup either. I always replace that with our axle blocks, which are identical to the KTM stuff in concept, but have tighter tolerances, a better fit, and a hard anodized finish. Perhaps that's what is allowing an easy chain tension adjustment? Or maybe it's just my technique. Regardless, it works well for me, and using the integrated axle block/axle setup like stock KTM is just a more elegant solution - fewer loose parts to fiddle with when changing a wheel and lighter weight.
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T-Fish
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3/26/2020 2:55pm
Motofinne wrote:
Am i out to lunch if i say i remember you "debunking" the theory behind the gains with the CRF rear axle?
Luxon MX wrote:
Yes, I've expressed extreme doubt that this has any noticeable effect. The only evidence that it does anything is rider feedback, which is massively subjective and...
Yes, I've expressed extreme doubt that this has any noticeable effect. The only evidence that it does anything is rider feedback, which is massively subjective and prone to the placebo effect. No one has presented bench test results or analysis results showing any difference, and general engineering logic will tell you that there shouldn't be a difference.

The stock KTM rear axle is nothing more than a big flange bolt, washer, and nut. The Honda style is essentially replacing the flange bolt with a standard bolt and adding a washer. Both setups hold everything together, and so long as the torque is high enough to prevent movement (as it absolutely should be!), there should be no noticable difference between the two setups from a stiffness standpoint. Or in other words, there is nothing floating about a "floating axle". With everything properly tightened and held together, both setups will flex the same.

I've never had a problem adjusting chain tension as others are mentioning, but I've never personally used the stock KTM axle setup either. I always replace that with our axle blocks, which are identical to the KTM stuff in concept, but have tighter tolerances, a better fit, and a hard anodized finish. Perhaps that's what is allowing an easy chain tension adjustment? Or maybe it's just my technique. Regardless, it works well for me, and using the integrated axle block/axle setup like stock KTM is just a more elegant solution - fewer loose parts to fiddle with when changing a wheel and lighter weight.
I am one of those guys that wouldn’t notice a difference if there is any. With that being said, I have bought and installed the Works Connection version for both of my bikes just because they look nice.
2

The Shop

3/27/2020 6:35pm
When using ride engineering crf axle on KTM's do you torque the axle bolt to KTM's manual specs or honda specs?
Luxon MX wrote:
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of...
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of these parameters will be changed to the Honda stuff, so you should use the Honda torque values.
Can someone give the Honda torques value for the rear axle ? Thank you
CarlinoJoeVideo
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Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
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3/29/2020 9:30am
When using ride engineering crf axle on KTM's do you torque the axle bolt to KTM's manual specs or honda specs?
Luxon MX wrote:
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of...
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of these parameters will be changed to the Honda stuff, so you should use the Honda torque values.
Can someone give the Honda torques value for the rear axle ? Thank you
CRF250R/RX says 94lbf-ft or 128n-m

1
3/29/2020 6:34pm
Luxon MX wrote:
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of...
Torque is calculated based on thread diameter, thread pitch, material, and coatings (and some other minor parameters). If you've changed to a Honda axle, all of these parameters will be changed to the Honda stuff, so you should use the Honda torque values.
Can someone give the Honda torques value for the rear axle ? Thank you
CRF250R/RX says 94lbf-ft or 128n-m [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/03/29/414485/s1200_3A8E4CC5_9B21_4D66_B2A7_FDD8D10C0DD5.jpg[/img]
CRF250R/RX says 94lbf-ft or 128n-m

Thanks ! Wow quite different than the ktm manual (80 Nm) !
BikePilot
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Location
Golden, CO US
4/3/2020 12:12pm
You are still squishing a KTM swingarm, hub, hub spacers, etc. I'd stick to the KTM torque figure.
rjg
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CA
4/3/2020 4:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2020 8:00pm
Just spit balling here, maybe there is something to it like 3x0.1mm shims are not the same as 1 x 0.15mm shim. Most of the time they are intended to be close enough as replacements, but in fact they do produce different results.
Just guessing

Another thing I just thought of -
Wheel bearings wear out. That makes side to side play get larger and larger which proves alot of side loads being present. Maybe the axel system and swing arm are twisting and on that note, there is are many reasons why croch rockets street bikes have fat swing arms. Fatter tires, higher speeds, higher g's, big axels.

It must make a difference some way / some how.
That's the issue with science and experience - they dont make sense according to the rules sometimes.

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