Help: Getting the bike to tip into corners

Day30
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Mesa, AZ US
4/28/2021 7:29pm
I’ve been having a hell of a time getting my 2020CRF450R to lean/tip into corners. Everything I read says it has the best handling and ergos of its class. It feels like I’m trying to lean a wave runner. Everything wants to stand back up. The window of being perfectly balanced through a rut is so narrow there’s no wiggle room and it’s either a perfect lean angle in the corner and it feels ok or 90% of the rest of the time I can’t hit that narrow window and I’m using all my energy to push the bike down into the lean angle.

Ok so that’s what I’m feeling. On my 2012 Honda with same suspension I can lean with no effort. So technique and suspension being equal, what is making the difference? What I really want to know is how can I make my 2020 easier to lean?

From my research everything says offset makes turning better. Does this necessarily mean “lean” better? By decreasing trail with offset will the bike fall in easier?

Will I get an easier lean with different: offset (22mm currently, going to 20mm?), raising the forks in the clamps, moving the rear wheel forward on the axle blocks, lower/higher sag?

What do you boys and girls think? TIA
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spimx
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Port Isabel, TX US
4/28/2021 9:51pm
If you go to a more aggressive offset you are going to lose strait line stability. You could go with a more aggressive offset and add a steering stabilizer to help with stability.

You might try taking some rebound out of the front forks and that will allow you to turn in tighter and less affect your stability before you go buying clamps
4/28/2021 11:35pm
Raising the forks in the clamps should improve turn in/lean. Messing with sag will also affect this. What things have you tried already?
Day30
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Mesa, AZ US
4/29/2021 2:38am
I had a lowering link, then read that will decrease turn ability and increase stability so I put the taller linkage back on, didn’t notice a difference with “lean”. Gave my bike 100mm of sag rather than 105mm is all I’ve tried. Going to test this weekend with changing offset from 22 to 20 and with bringing the forks 5mm up in the clamps and rolling the bars back a tad.
ElliotB16
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Cairo, GA US
4/29/2021 5:55am
All those things you stated should help a lot. Make sure you’re far enough forward on the seat in the corners

The Shop

Falcon
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Menifee, CA US
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4/29/2021 8:52am
A lot of your initial turn-in has to do with the front tire. Are you running the same tire that you are used to? try a slightly lower pressure and/or grippier tire and see if that helps. The comment above about a slower rebound will also help, as will lowering the front end on the forks.
Paw Paw 271
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Benton, LA US
4/29/2021 1:49pm
Set up desired is for hard pack or sand?

Paw Paw
Day30
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Mesa, AZ US
4/29/2021 2:28pm
Set up desired is for hard pack or sand?

Paw Paw
Hey Paw Paw, thanks for dropping in

It’s Arizona hard pack/intermediate clay ruts mostly. I think the bike feels pretty good in loamy stuff, probably a product of the forks being level in the clamps instead of raised (need to find a happy medium)
Day30
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Mesa, AZ US
4/29/2021 2:34pm
Falcon wrote:
A lot of your initial turn-in has to do with the front tire. Are you running the same tire that you are used to? try a...
A lot of your initial turn-in has to do with the front tire. Are you running the same tire that you are used to? try a slightly lower pressure and/or grippier tire and see if that helps. The comment above about a slower rebound will also help, as will lowering the front end on the forks.
That’s a good point I’ll try running different tire pressures and testing that. Currently running Bridgestone x30 fronts in Arizona clay with 10lbs of pressure and a heavy duty tube but I think the sidewalls were wanting to rolls just bit. gonna go up to 12 and see if they will hold up with enough traction still. I know getting more weight up to the front will be key with body position. Lower sag number and lowering the forks should solve that too.
rjg
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CA
4/29/2021 6:35pm
Something doesn't sound right about your situation you are having. You shouldn't have to try that hard to push it over and hold it over. I don't think that a 2mm change in offset is going to correct your problem. Sounds like something else it off.
250 cross
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Belding, MI US
4/30/2021 7:03am
Are you sure the forks are settling enough going into the turns. Forks too stiff or more break-in needed? More front brake on entry?
Falcon
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4/30/2021 1:31pm
One more thing: is your idle too high? The thing I notice with 4-strokes is that they want to stand up under power. It could be that your engine is turning over just enough that the power is causing the balancing effect instead of letting you turn the thing. Just grasping at straws here.
3
soggy
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UT US
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3783rd
5/1/2021 3:44am
Your 450 will probably never feel like it has the cornering ability of your 250. But something sounds a bit off. 10# of air in the front def seems low. You aren’t running any sort of steering damper are you?
garagedog
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Tulare, CA US
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802nd
5/2/2021 8:47pm
Steering stem excessively loose or too tight?

Day30
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Mesa, AZ US
5/3/2021 9:04pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2021 9:09pm
I feel like I’ve cured it.

20mm offset with xtrig rocs pro clamps (22 stock can go back to 22 whenever)

Forks raised 10mm from flush

HPSD oil weight to 20

12.5lbs air pressure in tires

100mm sag to 103mm sag

Bars set to neutral rolled back just barely in the middle position of the triple clamps with the clamps reversed this puts it +-3mm back from center/stock

Slowed front and rear rebound 3 clicks
Softer compression on the front forks by 8 clicks
Mid speed rear compression softer 3 clicks
High speed rear compression softer 5 clicks
...I don’t know if the clickers did too much on helping the bike specifically lean in but definitely making me feel more comfortable to push the bike in harder to the corner which helps getting more leaned naturally and liking the feedback of the bike through the corner.

Rode three days in a row. Saturday was moto groomed loam/deep ruts, Sunday was high speed whooped out desert, and Monday was back at moto hard pack square edge chop. I felt really good on all of it. The front end is definitely more reactive, but I prefer it. Straight line stability is acceptable even at 4th gear pinned through desert whoops and front end still handles well on a tight sandy turn track.

The bike is funnnnn to ride now. Thanks all
1
Phillip_Lamb
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ORANGEVALE, CA US
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5/4/2021 5:48pm
you could also try a wider/taller bar to get more physical leverage over the bars. also maybe try a little softer front vs the rear

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