CRF450 Black residue near weep hole/ Mechanical seal

hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50
Edited Date/Time 10/24/2021 6:55pm
Raced two classes this weekend and noticed this while washing the bike today. Bike has plenty of coolant and the high was 65 degrees this weekend, so I have a hard time believing it over heated. Bad water pump seal? Bike has 166 hours. Bone stock.



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JBoneMotorworks 4/26/2021 3:47pm
4/26/2021 3:47pm
Good chance that is trans oil leaking past the seal...if it were me, I would replace the seals behind the impeller, ( I think there are two stacked on top of each other), AND replace the shaft if possible.
This is bc even with new seals, the old shaft could have a very small groove in the shaft from the old seals. New seals may last a ride but then it leaks again,,,post results- J
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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 4/26/2021 5:35pm
4/26/2021 5:35pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2021 5:41pm
Yeah I'm sure it's the mechanical seal, god do I hate these things. I've replaced them on my last two bikes. Major pain in the ass. Why does Honda use this design? At least this one lasted 166 hours. Ordering parts tonight. I don't usually do the shaft but I think I'm gonna replace it this time even though it's 40 more dollars.
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Rider 5280
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Rider 5280 4/26/2021 5:51pm
4/26/2021 5:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2021 5:55pm
The shaft is key to replace in my experience (meaning I didn't and paid the price).

While you're in there, if upgrading your water pump to a Boyesen setup/other was on the bucket list, now's a good time to git 'er done.
JBoneMotorworks 4/27/2021 2:37am
4/27/2021 2:37am
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Yeah I'm sure it's the mechanical seal, god do I hate these things. I've replaced them on my last two bikes. Major pain in the ass...
Yeah I'm sure it's the mechanical seal, god do I hate these things. I've replaced them on my last two bikes. Major pain in the ass. Why does Honda use this design? At least this one lasted 166 hours. Ordering parts tonight. I don't usually do the shaft but I think I'm gonna replace it this time even though it's 40 more dollars.
It is the safest bet, cheaper than a new motor!! GL- J

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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 4/27/2021 10:06am
4/27/2021 10:06am
Why doesn't anybody have a good tutorial video for replacing this on the newer bikes? All the videos on YouTube are of the older carbureted bikes. This mechanical seal is 2009 and up if I'm not mistaken.
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 4/28/2021 7:30am
4/28/2021 7:30am
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Why doesn't anybody have a good tutorial video for replacing this on the newer bikes? All the videos on YouTube are of the older carbureted bikes...
Why doesn't anybody have a good tutorial video for replacing this on the newer bikes? All the videos on YouTube are of the older carbureted bikes. This mechanical seal is 2009 and up if I'm not mistaken.
Not to be a smart ass here, but here is another question for you to consider.
Why would you not have a service manual? It's your bike, your investment and you should invest in it. The cost of the manual is less than the cost of doing this repair on your bike.

Paw Paw
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 4/30/2021 6:46pm
4/30/2021 6:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2021 6:54pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Why doesn't anybody have a good tutorial video for replacing this on the newer bikes? All the videos on YouTube are of the older carbureted bikes...
Why doesn't anybody have a good tutorial video for replacing this on the newer bikes? All the videos on YouTube are of the older carbureted bikes. This mechanical seal is 2009 and up if I'm not mistaken.
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
Not to be a smart ass here, but here is another question for you to consider. Why would you not have a service manual? It's your...
Not to be a smart ass here, but here is another question for you to consider.
Why would you not have a service manual? It's your bike, your investment and you should invest in it. The cost of the manual is less than the cost of doing this repair on your bike.

Paw Paw
I do have a service manual, it shows the process decently but a nice detailed video like the stuff Rocky Mountain posts to their YouTube would be even better. This mechanical seal has to be pressed in perfect or it will leak and you’re out another $50
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/6/2021 10:59am
5/6/2021 10:59am
Replaced the oil seal and bearing behind the mechanical seal. All new gaskets and crush washers. The shaft looked fine and I didn’t see a reason to mess with the mechanical seal since it was never leaking water. But I ordered one and have it if I need it. Filled the bike with Fresh Honda coolant and maxima pro plus. I’ve ran the bike and got it to operating temp three times and nothing has leaked out of the weep hole so far. Riding Sunday.
2
Marc_Honda 5/7/2021 12:52pm
5/7/2021 12:52pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Replaced the oil seal and bearing behind the mechanical seal. All new gaskets and crush washers. The shaft looked fine and I didn’t see a reason...
Replaced the oil seal and bearing behind the mechanical seal. All new gaskets and crush washers. The shaft looked fine and I didn’t see a reason to mess with the mechanical seal since it was never leaking water. But I ordered one and have it if I need it. Filled the bike with Fresh Honda coolant and maxima pro plus. I’ve ran the bike and got it to operating temp three times and nothing has leaked out of the weep hole so far. Riding Sunday.
How difficult was it to replace in the end?
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/7/2021 9:11pm
5/7/2021 9:11pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2021 12:41pm
So after starting the bike and getting up to operating temp 4-5 times over the past couple days with zero issues, I got done working on another bike in my garage and noticed a puddle of coolant under mine. Start it up and it’s leaking coolant like crazy out of the weep hole. I Must have damaged it when driving in the bearing and oil seal. Anyways I’m glad I ordered the seal and have it. Gonna try to install it tomorrow. If I mess it up again I’m out $40 and can’t ride sunday. Would be nice to have a good tutorial video but none exist.
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/7/2021 9:46pm
5/7/2021 9:46pm
All disassembled, cleaned and ready for the new parts to go in tomorrow morning. There was a bunch of oil dried up oil behind the mechanical seal. Wish me luck guys. Monday is my birthday and my only wish is to ride on Sunday.


.
harescrambled
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harescrambled 5/8/2021 9:00am
5/8/2021 9:00am
hubbardmx50 wrote:
All disassembled, cleaned and ready for the new parts to go in tomorrow morning. There was a bunch of oil dried up oil behind the mechanical...
All disassembled, cleaned and ready for the new parts to go in tomorrow morning. There was a bunch of oil dried up oil behind the mechanical seal. Wish me luck guys. Monday is my birthday and my only wish is to ride on Sunday.


.
Good luck and be certain you press it in square and to the correct depth. I did mine in my CRF450RX, and no trouble after that
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/8/2021 9:51am
5/8/2021 9:51am
hubbardmx50 wrote:
All disassembled, cleaned and ready for the new parts to go in tomorrow morning. There was a bunch of oil dried up oil behind the mechanical...
All disassembled, cleaned and ready for the new parts to go in tomorrow morning. There was a bunch of oil dried up oil behind the mechanical seal. Wish me luck guys. Monday is my birthday and my only wish is to ride on Sunday.


.
harescrambled wrote:
Good luck and be certain you press it in square and to the correct depth. I did mine in my CRF450RX, and no trouble after that
👍🏻
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/10/2021 10:49am
5/10/2021 10:49am Edited Date/Time 5/10/2021 10:51am
Well fortunately I was able to ride yesterday but it did leak a little out of the weep hole. I swear the shaft has to be pressed onto the seal just right or it doesn’t work. So frustrating. If it doesn’t work this next time I might take it to a shop as I’ve already wasted about $50 in parts, oil and coolant doing this.
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/10/2021 4:55pm
5/10/2021 4:55pm
Partzilla has the 32x35 attachment tool for $33, this is the part of the tool that changed from the 13-16 bike. Luckily the installer collars stayed the same. Gonna order that and hopefully I can get this bastard pressed in perfect.

Here's the link for the 32 x 35 attachment tool Part # 07746-0010100
https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/07746-0010100
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/10/2021 8:56pm
5/10/2021 8:56pm
Tore it apart tonight to check everything out. Threw the installer collars on and Looks like the seal was nowhere near pressed in where it needed to be. I’m actually suprised it didn’t leak more yesterday. Buttoned everything back up, warmed the bike up, Cruised around the block. Let it cool down and did the same thing. Seems good so far.....
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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/11/2021 1:57pm
5/11/2021 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2021 2:44pm
So I pressed it in a little better this time and it’s still leaking a few drops at a time. Not sure if I should try it at the track to see if it stops or tear it apart for the third time and replace it. I’m so damn frustrated at this point and don’t know what to do. Can someone please tell me how they got it in there right? Obviously I’m missing something. Only thing I haven't tried is a new shaft but no shops around here have it in stock
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GaryC1 5/11/2021 4:07pm
5/11/2021 4:07pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2021 4:07pm
Sorry to maybe ask a stupid question but just checking you're greasing each seal before you press it in? As jbone said near the start new shaft may be required

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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/11/2021 6:00pm
5/11/2021 6:00pm
GaryC1 wrote:
Sorry to maybe ask a stupid question but just checking you're greasing each seal before you press it in? As jbone said near the start new...
Sorry to maybe ask a stupid question but just checking you're greasing each seal before you press it in? As jbone said near the start new shaft may be required
I applied some grease to the case before I pressed in the oil seal and bearing. But the manual doesn't say you need to grease the mechanical seal.
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 6/3/2021 10:24am
6/3/2021 10:24am
So if anyone cares I finally ended up getting it in right. Two rides and weep hole is completely dry. I finally bit the bullet and replaced the shaft. Was that the issue? I really have no idea. The old shaft had these little grooves on it. Apparently the part of the installer tool that sits below the case on the shaft/bearing changed for 2017. So I put a washer on top of the tool to make it flush and used an attatchment from the bearing installer kit from Harbor freight to press the top of the installer collars in. wish I would’ve taken some pictures and video but I just assumed I was gonna mess it up again so I didn’t bother. If you already have this apart just do the freaking shaft....
harescrambled
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harescrambled 6/5/2021 2:11pm
6/5/2021 2:11pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
So if anyone cares I finally ended up getting it in right. Two rides and weep hole is completely dry. I finally bit the bullet and...
So if anyone cares I finally ended up getting it in right. Two rides and weep hole is completely dry. I finally bit the bullet and replaced the shaft. Was that the issue? I really have no idea. The old shaft had these little grooves on it. Apparently the part of the installer tool that sits below the case on the shaft/bearing changed for 2017. So I put a washer on top of the tool to make it flush and used an attatchment from the bearing installer kit from Harbor freight to press the top of the installer collars in. wish I would’ve taken some pictures and video but I just assumed I was gonna mess it up again so I didn’t bother. If you already have this apart just do the freaking shaft....
I forgot to mention, I did replace the shaft in mine when I did it. The Honda service manual says it's required, so I did. Like I said...got it to the correct depth, and no issues since
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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 10/20/2021 12:06pm
10/20/2021 12:06pm
Welp, I put 12 hours on brand new shaft, bearing, oil seal, all new gaskets and mechanical seal and it’s happening again. What the hell man. Does anybody know what could be causing this? I have no shaving or partials in the oil or oil filter. Oil comes out looking brand new every 4-6 hours. Bike ran perfect. Only reason I had this apart and noticed it again is because the oil seal behind my kick start lever was leaking. Could that be what this black residue is from?


96motorhead
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96motorhead 10/20/2021 5:38pm
10/20/2021 5:38pm
How does the counter balancer bearing feel, is there up and down play?
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 10/20/2021 6:43pm
10/20/2021 6:43pm
96motorhead wrote:
How does the counter balancer bearing feel, is there up and down play?
Is that what this is?
96motorhead
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96motorhead 10/20/2021 7:33pm
10/20/2021 7:33pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Is that what this is? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/10/20/515251/s1200_Screen_Shot_2021_10_20_at_6.42.01_PM.jpg[/img]
Is that what this is?
Yes that is it, its been a couple of years since I've been in a 17+ crf450r motor but I recall the balancer shaft driving the water pump shaft like the previous generations. Grab the gear that is behind the water pump and see if there is up and down play. In my experience they all have a little bit of play but I have heard of excessive play causing the water pump seals to fail. Assuming that you rebuilt the water pump correctly that balancer would be the next place to look.
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 10/20/2021 9:42pm
10/20/2021 9:42pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Is that what this is? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/10/20/515251/s1200_Screen_Shot_2021_10_20_at_6.42.01_PM.jpg[/img]
Is that what this is?
96motorhead wrote:
Yes that is it, its been a couple of years since I've been in a 17+ crf450r motor but I recall the balancer shaft driving the...
Yes that is it, its been a couple of years since I've been in a 17+ crf450r motor but I recall the balancer shaft driving the water pump shaft like the previous generations. Grab the gear that is behind the water pump and see if there is up and down play. In my experience they all have a little bit of play but I have heard of excessive play causing the water pump seals to fail. Assuming that you rebuilt the water pump correctly that balancer would be the next place to look.
Nope, it is completely tight. The oil pump gear (the one below the clutch held on with a circlip) has a ton of play though. I'm assuming that's normal though? Last time I put this seal back together I used a ton of assembly lube. I'm almost starting to believe that's what this dark grayish residue is.
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96motorhead
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96motorhead 10/21/2021 6:24pm
10/21/2021 6:24pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Nope, it is completely tight. The oil pump gear (the one below the clutch held on with a circlip) has a ton of play though. I'm...
Nope, it is completely tight. The oil pump gear (the one below the clutch held on with a circlip) has a ton of play though. I'm assuming that's normal though? Last time I put this seal back together I used a ton of assembly lube. I'm almost starting to believe that's what this dark grayish residue is.
I would continue to run it and keep an eye on it. I haven't done anything with the oil pumps on these newer crf450r's but the old carb crf450r's had play in the oil pump gear/shaft.
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 10/21/2021 7:28pm
10/21/2021 7:28pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Nope, it is completely tight. The oil pump gear (the one below the clutch held on with a circlip) has a ton of play though. I'm...
Nope, it is completely tight. The oil pump gear (the one below the clutch held on with a circlip) has a ton of play though. I'm assuming that's normal though? Last time I put this seal back together I used a ton of assembly lube. I'm almost starting to believe that's what this dark grayish residue is.
96motorhead wrote:
I would continue to run it and keep an eye on it. I haven't done anything with the oil pumps on these newer crf450r's but the...
I would continue to run it and keep an eye on it. I haven't done anything with the oil pumps on these newer crf450r's but the old carb crf450r's had play in the oil pump gear/shaft.
Yeah. There was a ton of that same dark gray residue smeared where that little collar and O-ring go sit the case. I’m gonna replace that O ring and collar and see what happens. Of course nobody around here has it in stock so I had to order it.
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Rider 5280 10/22/2021 10:32am
10/22/2021 10:32am
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Nope, it is completely tight. The oil pump gear (the one below the clutch held on with a circlip) has a ton of play though. I'm...
Nope, it is completely tight. The oil pump gear (the one below the clutch held on with a circlip) has a ton of play though. I'm assuming that's normal though? Last time I put this seal back together I used a ton of assembly lube. I'm almost starting to believe that's what this dark grayish residue is.
96motorhead wrote:
I would continue to run it and keep an eye on it. I haven't done anything with the oil pumps on these newer crf450r's but the...
I would continue to run it and keep an eye on it. I haven't done anything with the oil pumps on these newer crf450r's but the old carb crf450r's had play in the oil pump gear/shaft.
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Yeah. There was a ton of that same dark gray residue smeared where that little collar and O-ring go sit the case. I’m gonna replace that...
Yeah. There was a ton of that same dark gray residue smeared where that little collar and O-ring go sit the case. I’m gonna replace that O ring and collar and see what happens. Of course nobody around here has it in stock so I had to order it.
I believe the excess assembly lube = what you're seeing. Don't sweat things until it appears the issue is persisting.

I was going to comment on the assembly lube --- and that I would put a lot, too --- so I think it's a "wait and see game" and you actually may have already solved the problem.
hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 10/22/2021 10:49am
10/22/2021 10:49am
96motorhead wrote:
I would continue to run it and keep an eye on it. I haven't done anything with the oil pumps on these newer crf450r's but the...
I would continue to run it and keep an eye on it. I haven't done anything with the oil pumps on these newer crf450r's but the old carb crf450r's had play in the oil pump gear/shaft.
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Yeah. There was a ton of that same dark gray residue smeared where that little collar and O-ring go sit the case. I’m gonna replace that...
Yeah. There was a ton of that same dark gray residue smeared where that little collar and O-ring go sit the case. I’m gonna replace that O ring and collar and see what happens. Of course nobody around here has it in stock so I had to order it.
Rider 5280 wrote:
I believe the excess assembly lube = what you're seeing. Don't sweat things until it appears the issue is persisting. I was going to comment on...
I believe the excess assembly lube = what you're seeing. Don't sweat things until it appears the issue is persisting.

I was going to comment on the assembly lube --- and that I would put a lot, too --- so I think it's a "wait and see game" and you actually may have already solved the problem.
Yeah exactly, that would be fantastic if that is what this turned out to be. I will do anything to not have to do another mechanical seal on this bike.
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