CR500 no Spark!!!

G-man
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12/18/2019 11:30pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2020 11:41am
So I'm starting to reassemble the 2001 CR500 project bike and I'm at the point where I could check to see if it's getting spark and it is not..

The bike has been outside under a heavy duty tarp for about 5 years I remember Don said it was getting hard to start I think he thought it was low on compression or a crank leak issue but now it might be electrical which is the worst thing I can think of cuz I'm not good at troubleshooting that stuff. 😭

Anybody have a clue?

Thanks


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danman
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12/19/2019 3:44am
Looks like a freshly painted/powdered frame. Did you make sure you filed the paint/powder off so some steel showing where the CDI mounts. It has to be grounded? If not, there is the problem.
G-man
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12/19/2019 8:03am
Thanks for the reply Dan I did not remove the CDI as I masked off the electrical components.
G-man
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12/19/2019 11:37am
I did some research and someone mention they painted their engine mounts and sanded them but not enough and they redid that and they got spark
so it's looking like I might have to remove my radiators and engine again ugh!
Paul_Pitzonka
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12/19/2019 2:02pm
G-man wrote:
I did some research and someone mention they painted their engine mounts and sanded them but not enough and they redid that and they got spark...
I did some research and someone mention they painted their engine mounts and sanded them but not enough and they redid that and they got spark
so it's looking like I might have to remove my radiators and engine again ugh!
first thing I’d do is disconnect your kill switch... if that doesn’t fix your no spark issue, then I would proceed looking into grounding issues (Quick test to make sure that’s your issue before you go through the hassle of removing everything... take a jumper wire and ground the engine to the frame)... if the problem still exists first check you primary and secondary coil resistance... then proceeded to measure your stator for resistance and peak voltage... (sorry I don’t know the specs off hand)...
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The Shop

Uncle Tony
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12/19/2019 3:11pm
Make sure there’s no paint on the coil mounts
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G-man
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12/19/2019 3:47pm
Thanks for your detailed reply Paul.

It does not have a kill switch the previous owner made it dual sport legal with a total loss battery system he put on switch on the handlebars like a street bike it has turn signals Etc attached is the photo that shows one wire is not plugged in from the ignition control module.

I cannot find the male end of it I'm thinking it was removed for the handlebar switch?

Does the kill button wire normally go here plugged into the ICM?

Thanks


G-man
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12/19/2019 3:51pm
Uncle Tony wrote:
Make sure there’s no paint on the coil mounts
I did not remove the coil.

I was able to remove the engine mount bolts and move the engine just enough to be able to sand the paint off the engine mount.

put the bolts back in tightened it up and I still have no spark....😭
Paw Paw 271
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12/19/2019 3:58pm
Do an ohms test on the ignition coil, both primary and secondary sides. This will lead you in the right direction. A low primary side reading with show the coil to be bad. A high secondary side reading will so a bad connection at the plug cap, the coil mounts or other connections.

Paw Paw
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Paul_Pitzonka
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12/19/2019 4:29pm
G-man wrote:
Thanks for your detailed reply Paul. It does not have a kill switch the previous owner made it dual sport legal with a total loss battery...
Thanks for your detailed reply Paul.

It does not have a kill switch the previous owner made it dual sport legal with a total loss battery system he put on switch on the handlebars like a street bike it has turn signals Etc attached is the photo that shows one wire is not plugged in from the ignition control module.

I cannot find the male end of it I'm thinking it was removed for the handlebar switch?

Does the kill button wire normally go here plugged into the ICM?

Thanks


If he has no kill switch... I’d look into how he’s cutting power to or grounding the ignition feed...
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Bearuno
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12/19/2019 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 12/19/2019 5:09pm
You mentioned the bike had sat outside for a few years.

Now, you may have done a rebuild / already checked the left hand case with the ignition behind it, But, you might not have?

It's a 'dry' case / ignition. There's a vent at the bottom of the case that can allow water in. A clutch cable might not have been fitted while the bike sat out in the elements, or the sealing O'ring on it was missing, or, on old or any bikes, the case can actually be worn by the O'ring, thus, allowing moisture into the case. Even the tiniest amount of rust / crud on pick ups, the flywheel, the stator or wire attachments can 'nix ' spark. I've always sealed any case vent on All of my bikes ( my 'keeper for life' bike is my CRE500 and, even with my other precautions, I cut and fit a little rubber flap / cap to fit on the cable above the cable / case interface) over the decades, and fitted a high, hosed - up into the frame or airbox etc - vent outlet. And even then I regularly check the ignition / case for moisture and crud.

Hope you can sort it - Electrics are My kryptonite, so I try to set things up from the get go so as to avoid
avoidable electrical problems.

Oh, and Do take the coil of, and check It's 'to frame' contact point. It is quite flimsy, bare metal, and prone to rust etc. You might think a hard bolted item could not allow rust / crud etc to stop a needed connection/ earth, but it does happen.
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G-man
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12/19/2019 5:59pm Edited Date/Time 12/19/2019 6:02pm
Thanks for all the detailed replies guys a lot of the stuff you're talking about is Kryptonite to me too. ☹

I'm calling it a night as I'm frazzled trying to figure this crap out we'll start again in the morning.

Bearuno, yes the bike set outside but under a heavy duty tarp and surprisingly it did pretty good out here in Arizona we're more concerned about the Heat but when it rains at dumps pretty good.

I did pull off the flywheel cover and did notice some slight oil in the bottom of the case there.

I believe he put on a heavier flywheel so to pull this off to check for corrosion behind it I would need a flywheel puller right?



By the way is that your bike in your avatar if so that is one awesome machine!



Bearuno
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12/19/2019 7:50pm Edited Date/Time 12/19/2019 9:16pm
No, not my bike.

I think it's an 84 or 85 RC500 set up for Baja type racing. It might be just a 'mock up', or CG picture as I don't remember seeing or reading of American Honda / HRC ever using an RC, or even a CR in Baja, or in other major Desert races.

My CRE500 is a hugely modified bike. PDS'd (no link, Ohlins TTX shocked) rear end, Delta boxed swing arm, and an aluminum top load airbox to suite it all. A WP CC front end that is now a genuinely CC front end - std, they are anything but, hence their notorious inconsistency. So, of course a Brembo 270mm frontbrake while still using the Honda wheel, that required machining of axle to axle bracket adaptors that are set up so only 2 axle clamp bolts need to be undone, with a 10mm head bolt welded to the axle, so only a 10mm spanner is needed. 240mm rear disc with no foot brake as, my non bendy knees can't use one. I have an LHRB, using a Brembo Clutch master cylinder, a mini clutch lever so both levers can be used with perfect ergos, and Rekluse clutch. My own radiator braces / cages, and Thermo fan's on the Radiators, and my much loved 31/ 32 years old Ohlins Steering damper, with my own made steering damper / bar riser mount that has the axis of both the steer tube and damper, the same no matter what position the handlebar mounts are in. And, my own Aluminium side stand.

I make 'thing's.

I make a bike, any bike I have, fit me.

Note : I've made many AFs, had a few myself, but far prefer my modified steelie.

Oh, and there's an aluminium drop tank
I made that goes all the way to the ignition cover and cases, while being at least an inch narrower than the std tank, with the tank top flat, below the triple clamp top, with the seat not going upwards as a std set up does, while holding around 16 ( I've forgotten the full capacity) litres. With 2007 CR 125/250 Radiator shrouds. I'm not using the tank at the moment ( and don't I miss Sad the far better feel from carrying fuel so, so much lower, it makes the bike feel like a 250), as I'd have to cut the hell out of it because I'm having to use the utterly dreadfully made, near certain eventual engine destroying Electric Start I got. Should have made my own, as I had planned to...... Angry My legs have now just got too 'non bendy' to get onto even the short, Gas Gas Trials bike KS lever I fitted, which my Auto Decompressor allows me to use - you can start it by hand, if your brave enough to risk the rare kick back, which would probably destroy an elbow , wrist, hand or shoulder Woohoo I've also fitted KTM 450RR footpegs which are wider, longer, and far lower, and use a variety of different height seats, dependent on the condition of my knees.

And, so I can ride in my now crowded mountain trails, I make my own, 24-26" long muffler, and use full pipe protectors to also reduce noise. F**k being a twat, and riding a loud bike - I want to keep riding in the trails I've ridden on for 5 decades now, whilst Not giving a chance for a remotely legitimate noise complaint from local Residents, or MTBers or Walkers - Less Sound = More Ground is still a truism.

I can't recommend strongly enough the virtues of a Decompressor for a 500. Sure, they are not hard to start if well set up, but a decomp reduces kick back, and, through not having to use so much force in your kick, the Massive strain put int the cases from that kick, and the inevitable, subsequent KS lever to footleg contact ( plus, just look at the leverage / fulcrum provided by the KS lever when it hits the footpeg). Just look at the amount of broken cases that people have, the KS shaft ripping the cases back through the impact and leverage. And, the bikes have now had a decade, or 2, or 3 of that impact and leverage. A mate of mine paid a motza for some second hand cases, that were worse than his. Cases aren't cheap, and, it's almost pointless paying for used one's, that have been subjected to the same forces.

Luckily, there are a few good manufacturers of CR ( and KX) 500 cases, just don't get the Canadian ones - get the Built / Bilt one's from AJ, or the Australian TSR (?) Cases - both Superb products at a very reasonable prices, if any of you need cases.

It's probably one of the Ugliest CRs around. As, I ride in tight bush, and push through the scrub. And, I use plastics from as long ago as 91 , and other 500s I've had over the years, due to the riding I do. I Do have around 5 full sets of new plastics, in all white and all red, plus 3 sets of 250 plastics, for the aluminium tank, and for when I finally make a subframe to take them. But, I'm too practical ( daggy ) to care about pristine plastics.

I've just had today the first of a couple of hand operations - and I'm a bit 'stoned' still, hence my even more rambling than usual post - so my next riding will probably be on a big group ride in a few months time. My mates that I'll be going with, are threatening to fit the new plastics, as they reckon it's embarrassing to have my bike among their near 'garage queen' level bikes. My bikes' plastics are scruffy, but it's always mechanically perfect, better than theirs, despite it's age of now, 17 years, well , that is, other than the 'time bomb' electric start.
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Bearuno
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12/19/2019 9:29pm
The oil in the ignition side:

Either the crank seal is leaking, or the seal on the clutch shaft is. Neither is hard to rectify - but both require removing the ignition flywheel.

Oh, and that flywheel weight, is a Good Thing. There's a few that argue it makes the bike hard to maneuver / stand up in corners, and, too tame. 'He Men' types - the sort that also have disdain for De-Comps. Drongos, I reckon, and, for the most part, BS artists.

Though, the oil could be from something truly dire, but that's letting my fevered, post-op pain medication fueled imagination run riot......... And , very far from being likely.
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Kenny Lingus
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12/20/2019 7:55am
I had an '01 cr250 that had an intermittent spark issue. Turned out to be the plug wire wasn't fully seated in the coil. Drove me crazy trying to figure out what it was.
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G-man
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12/25/2019 12:21am
I had a buddy come over and he metered everything out according to the manual and it was all good.

Might of had one of the plugs connected wrong too
not sure as I head to step away for a few minutes and I also gave him a new plug.

Then he cranked on the kickstarter really hard with his hand and it did indeed have spark I have a feeling that I just was not cranking on it hard enough with my hand.
All I know is it has spark! Smile

Oh and he did verify that it has a lighting coil and stator along with the key is the kill switch.

So I connected everything back up and the best routing for the wire harness and the radiator vent tube is as shown in the photo and it rests lightly against the radiator tank is this the correct routing?


Thanks


Bearuno
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12/25/2019 3:29am
I think when mine was standard, the wire bundle scooched up the inside of the LH radiator, on the side of the down tube, forward of the rear radiator mount bolt, to the CDI and Coil, but, of course, that's with the std, much less bulky std wiring.

My assumption is that the wiring for the lights etc is going up within that bundle / insulating tube. My routing, with the lighting wiring in the bundle / insulating tube, pretty much echoes what you've done, but, with the added obstacle of having to go past a SPAL fan I have mounted to the LH radiator / my plate and rod Radiator cages. You route things, the way you have to. Just watch for 'rub ' on the radiator, and the (slim) potential for the wireing to go up against the header pipe.

I do like seeing a Steelie being resurrected. Cool
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G-man
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1/3/2020 11:41am
Thanks Bearuno, I sent you a private message you seem to know a lot about CR500 I have a couple questions I'd like to ask you.

Or of our time zones are completely different an email would work too.

Thanks

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